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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: flower fairy on Monday 24 April 17 15:36 BST (UK)
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Hi.
I am trying to find some definitive proof that my 3 x great grandfather William McINTYRE was born in Newcastle around 1820. I have his marriage to Susan Burns in 1841, all the census info from 1841 up, but I have not been able to find any info regarding his birth or a baptism or any other siblings. His father James was born in Scotland around 1797 and married Jane Brown in 1821 in Gateshead. All the census info for William gives his place of birth as Newcastle although at the time of all the census he is living in Gateshead.
Thanks for any help. :)
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If William was born 1820 and Parents marriage was 1821 have ypu looked for his Baptism under Brown?
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The Marriage of James McINTYRE to Jane BROWN was 1822;
21 Oct 1822, St Mary, Gateshead, Durham.
May I ask if you dont have Williams Baptism how you know his Mother was a Jane nee Brown?
Is she on Census as his Mother?
Trish :)
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Hi Trish.
Yes sorry that should have been 1822 not 1821. I suppose I have always assumed his mum was Brown as James McIntyre married a Jane Brown and William and Susans 1st child was called JANE BROWN McINTYRE. Maybe not proof enough and ordinarily I would be buying a birth certificate but at the moment this is all I have to go on.
Many thanks for your speedy reply :)
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1841 HO107/296 bk9 f14 p22 (Gateshead)
James McIntyre 47 bn Scotland
Jane 50 not bn in county
William 20 not bn in county
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Sorry answered my own question.
Found 1841 Census with James/Jane/William and 1851 with William/Wife Susnan and Children with his Father James, Widowed and born Glasgow.
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Thanks Rosie.
Mark William BROWN, christened 4 April 1820, St. Andrew's, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland
Mother JANE Brown
(Familysearch.Org)
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If that is your William Jane had another illeg. Son JOHN HENRY Christened 8 Jan 1817 Newcastle.
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Hi. Thanks for the info but if we go by naming patterns Mark and John do not feature anywhere else in this tree so I do not think these are mine.
I will still bear them in mind though but I need to carry on digging.
William & Susan(anna)'s 1st daughter had the middle name Brown which I assume is the maiden name of Williams mum and also features in further children's middle names.
Their 2nd child was called Mary Burns McIntyre and Burns was Susans maiden name and again features in several childrens middle names. (By the way apart from finding Susans baptism for 1819 and her brother James in 1821, I'm also stuck on this side)
Thanks again for your input, it really is very much appreciated ;D.
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Fair enough its up to you to decide.
But I did notice your William/Susan name a Child Jacob Johnson McIntyre.
A John BROWN married Ann JOHNSON 1837 Newcastle.
1851 Census he is born c 1815 Newcastle upon Tyne. So may be John Henry Brown 1817.
Also I jave checked all Mark William or just Mark Brown in 1851 Census and none fit 1820 pob for Mark William Brown.
I can find no Children in Northumberland or Durham for William McIntrye and Jane.
Maybe someone else can.
All the best Trish. :)
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Thank you Trish.
I'm not dismissing it, just need to dig around a bit more. William McINTYRES dad, James was born in 1797 in Lanark and his mum was Christian Johnson, this is where I have believed the Johnson to come from.
Once again many thanks, it may be that it always remains a mystery ;)
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Well that is very likely where the Johnson came from.
Trish :)
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Thank you Trish.
I'm not dismissing it, just need to dig around a bit more. William McINTYRES dad, James was born in 1797 in Lanark and his mum was Christian Johnson, this is where I have believed the Johnson to come from.
Once again many thanks, it may be that it always remains a mystery ;)
William's also my ancestor :) Are you sure about his father James's parents? According to old handwritten records found in a descendant's home in 1999 (as per this website: http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/s/c/h/Sheila-Schneider/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0209.html), James's mother was a Jane, born 1767, died January 18, 1832 and buried at St. Mary's, Gateshead, Co. Durham. There is no mention of a father, though. I agree with you that there are quite a few brick walls here.
If Christian Johnson is not in fact James's mother, perhaps the Johnson comes from Susan's mother Mary's maiden name, although that does not appear consistent with how Susan and William named their other children. Speaking of the Burns side of the family, I saw Susan and brother James on familysearch.org christened in Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, with father James and mother Mary, but also an Elizabeth Shipley Burns christened in 1823. Could she be another sibling? Lots of questions left... wish we had more to go on.
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Hi Penworth.
I'm sorry I have clicked on the link on your page but nothing comes up in the way of trees or photos etc. You have William as being born in Liverpool but in all the census etc he is stated to be from Newcastle. The parents names are correct as in James McIntyre and Jane Brown. Looking very quickly I have never established the date for Williams birth. Do you have the parish record for this entry along with the parents names?
By the way, it's lovely to hear from someone else doing this branch :)
Thanks
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Hi Penworth.
I'm sorry I have clicked on the link on your page but nothing comes up in the way of trees or photos etc. You have William as being born in Liverpool but in all the census etc he is stated to be from Newcastle. The parents names are correct as in James McIntyre and Jane Brown. Looking very quickly I have never established the date for Williams birth. Do you have the parish record for this entry along with the parents names?
By the way, it's lovely to hear from someone else doing this branch :)
Thanks
Hi Flower Fairy!
I first accessed the website back in 2014, and at that time there were pictures. I included William's as an attachment here...hope it works. I don't know why the website shows him born in Lancashire, clearly an error. I have not been able to find a record of his birth/christening either, but I think the suggestion that he may be the Mark William Brown who was christened in 1820 with only the mother Jane Brown listed is a good one since Jane wasn't married till 1822. The date and place certainly fit. I do wonder whether James Mcintyre was William's biological or adoptive father? Did he and Jane meet in Northumberland and move together to Durham? Sorry I seem to be contributing only more questions...
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Welcome to Rootschat penworth.
I have had another look at this and found extra info;
Baptism;
St John the Baptist, Newcastle upon Tyne
JOHN HENRY Brown 8 Jan 1817, Mother JANE
Mother a Singlewoman, abode Gateshead****
(FreeREG)
I am very sure Mark William Brown 1820 is your man.
Jane McIntyres 1847 Death Reg has her as 57 (1790)
Trish :)
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Oh dear, this is why I hate/love family history. So confused on this right now. Haven't even looked at this side for about 8 months.
Penworth is it actually your website? Was it your descendants house and do you still have a copy of what was written? I am never happy just assuming stuff hence never accepted Christian Johnson 100% but I think now when I have 5 minutes ( ::) ) I need to go over the tree and look at more facts.
Trish1120, thanks for this extra bit as well. Something else now to look into ??? ;)
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Thank you Trish!
I share your confusion, Flower Fairy... you are not alone! ;) I can't say how many times I've revisited this side of the family. It isn't my website; I just happened upon it some years ago. The descendant in question appears to be Elizabeth Hughes Clark (b. 1905 d. 1985), granddaughter of William and Susan.
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Might James McIntyre have remarried ?
A James McIntyre seems to have married a Leah Bates in Newcastle Dec 1852.
1861 James (showing as b Scotland c1897 and a proprietor of houses) and Leah are recorded in Tynemouth.
1871 James and Leah are recorded in Cromwell Street Gateshead. James is showing as being born Lanark Scotland c 1895 and a retired brass founder - this occupation seems to tie up with the 1851 census.(Lanark here might refer to the county of Lanarkshire which includes Glasgow).
1881 James is living in Burt Terrace, Gateshead aged 85. James is recorded as a gentleman. Also in the household is his sister in law Mary A Bates,a widow age 70 and housekeeper..
The probate calendar shows that this James McIntyre left a will and died 2 Oct 1882.
If this is indeed the correct James McIntyre the 1852 marriage cert would give the name and occupation of his father while the 1882 will would hopefully confirm the connection to son or stepson William.
William
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Millmoor.
Yes he did remarry a Leah Bates. Not sure why I have never thought to order the certificate.
Thank you ;D
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Thank you Trish!
I share your confusion, Flower Fairy... you are not alone! ;) I can't say how many times I've revisited this side of the family. It isn't my website; I just happened upon it some years ago. The descendant in question appears to be Elizabeth Hughes Clark (b. 1905 d. 1985), granddaughter of William and Susan.
Ha ha. I am gong to have to look at this line again now. Maybe 2 heads will be better than 1 in this case ;)
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Millmoor.
Yes he did remarry a Leah Bates. Not sure why I have never thought to order the certificate.
Thank you ;D
OK so it was late last night when I wrote about ordering the certificate because lying in bed last night I realised that I had it.
Marriage in Oct 1852 James McIntyre widower, brass finisher, father James McIntyre soldier. married Leah Bates, spinster, father William Bates, mariner. From Scotlands People, (knowing that from census James was born in Glasgow) I then found a James McInytre born 1797 in Glasgow, father James McIntyre a soldier in the 6th regiment of fencibles and mother Christian Johnston . This is what I believe to be the parents of my James McInyre.