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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: laochrione on Thursday 27 April 17 13:12 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm researching my grandparents John Cowman and Annie Rynhart from Mountfin Upper in Bunclody. Born in the mid to late 1830s, Annie died in 1919 and as of yet, I've been unable to find a death record from John. Apart from John's DOB (15 Nov 1834) and Annie's DOD (9 Feb 1919) I've no other information on them themselves.
They had 6 children (that I've found) all girls: Ellen (ca 1864), Anne (9 Apr 1865), Julia (13 Sep 1867), Elisabeth (14 Jan 1870), Catherine (10 Sep 1872) and my grandmother Alice (m. Balfe, 3 Sep 1875). I can't find a birth record for Ellen, but Anne, Julia, Elisabeth and Catherine were all born in Kilcormick. My granny Alice was born in Castledockrell.
If anyone has any insight into this family it'd be most appreciated. I would especially like to find out about Annie Rynhart as I have no other recorded Rynhart's in the family and I'd like to find out more about her line.
Thank you in advance!
Kelley
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Civil Birth Records
1865 Anne LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03570/2315404.pdf) #95 / Baptism Link (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634001#page/5/mode/1up)
1867 Julia LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03472/2275412.pdf) #64 / Baptism Link (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634001#page/18/mode/1up)
1870 Elisabeth LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03357/2230722.pdf) #426
1872 Catherine LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03231/2184593.pdf) #321
1875 Alice LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03077/2128038.pdf) #245
Marriages in The Ballagh parish are missing from 1852 to 1874 and
baptisms are missing from 1852 to 1863
Possibly John and Anne with their grandson Francis in 1901 LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Castledockrell/Mountfin_Upper/1790227/)
at house 4 in Mountfin Upper (Castledockrell, Wexford)
Birth record for Francis COWMAN LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02539/1940320.pdf)
Death of Anne COWMAN LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05149/4419293.pdf) shown as widow
informant Frank COWMAN shown as son
This implies that John COWMAN died between 1901 and 1919
Have you found the family on the 1911 census?
I can see Frank COWMAN but cannot see John and Anne
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Death of daughter Anne COWMAN in 1898 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05828/4650190.pdf)
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Baptism of son Michael COWMAN April 14 1878 LINK (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634001#page/38/mode/1up)
I cannot see a civil birth record
Possible entry for Michael COWMAN on 1901 census as a servant LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Castledockrell/Tomgarrow/1790255/)
Possible marriage to Margaret SKELTON in 1905 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10176/5702547.pdf)
Possible entry for family on 1911 census LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Merchants_Quay__part_of_/Watkin_s_Cottages/77737/)
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Anne 1911 with daughter Ellen
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Castledockrell/Mountfin__Upper/681132/
Francis
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Castledockrell/Tombrick/681136/
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Anne 1911 with daughter Ellen
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Castledockrell/Mountfin__Upper/681132/
very good dathai - I couldn't see her, then again didn't try CAWMAN!
that then implies that John COWMAN died between 1901 and 1911
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Found the death of John COWMAN June 15 1906 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05559/4560423.pdf) #413
informant for confirmation daughter Ellen SOMERS
transcribed incorrectly as COURNAN
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While it appears that you have found the folks you specifically enquired about, you should be aware that in Wexford Cowman = Cummins/Cummings. The same people can appear as either Cowman or Cummins. This identity is in standard reference works, and I have personally encountered it in my family.
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Thanks Wexflyer - the challenge of name variants!!
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Thanks Wexflyer - the challenge of name variants!!
Yes indeed. Other identities to note in Wexford include
Cosker (etc) = Cosgrave/Cosgrove
Aidan = Mogue = Moses
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Thanks Wexflyer - the challenge of name variants!!
Yes indeed. Other identities to note in Wexford include
Cosker (etc) = Cosgrave/Cosgrove
Aidan = Mogue = Moses
These are also in reference works, and again I have personally observed these identities in the records.
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Wow, this is amazing guys. While I had some of this, I did not have Michael Cowman, so I'm thrilled to finally add him to the tree. Thanks for all your help finding him.
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Margaret COWMAN died May 11 1920 aged 32 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1920/05124/4410298.pdf)
Michael COWMAN died Dec 04 1923 aged 45 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1923/05045/4381007.pdf)
They had at least one more child
Ellen Jan 18 1915 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01379/1567592.pdf)
I also think that their daughter Anne COWMAN married James KEARNEY in 1936 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1936/08925/5228044.pdf)
One of the witnesses is named MORRIS
An Ellen COWMAN married a Thomas COWMAN
LINK (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/255f320005874?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Dellen%26namel%3Dcowman%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch) for basis of supposition
Anne COWMAN was born in Charlotte Street on Aug 27 1905 rather than her home address of Ardee Street
In 1901 Thomas and Ellen MORRIS lived at McGee's Court (off Charlotte Street) LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/McGee_s_Court/1307127/)
and in 1911 LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/McGrath_s_Court/78708/) They state that they are 50 years married which implies c1861
On both census returns they were shown as born in Wexford
Ellen MORRIS nee COWMAN could be John COWMAN's sister
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Margaret COWMAN died May 11 1920 aged 32 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1920/05124/4410298.pdf)
Michael COWMAN died Dec 04 1923 aged 45 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1923/05045/4381007.pdf)
They had at least one more child
Ellen Jan 18 1915 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01379/1567592.pdf)
I also think that their daughter Anne COWMAN married James KEARNEY in 1936 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1936/08925/5228044.pdf)
One of the witnesses is named MORRIS
An Ellen COWMAN married a Thomas COWMAN
LINK (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/255f320005874?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Dellen%26namel%3Dcowman%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch) for basis of supposition
Anne COWMAN was born in Charlotte Street on Aug 27 1905 rather than her home address of Ardee Street
In 1901 Thomas and Ellen MORRIS lived at McGee's Court (off Charlotte Street) LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/McGee_s_Court/1307127/)
and in 1911 LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/McGrath_s_Court/78708/) They state that they are 50 years married which implies c1861
On both census returns they were shown as born in Wexford
Ellen MORRIS nee COWMAN could be John COWMAN's sister
Thank you so much for this myluck! I do believe that Ellen Cowman is John Cowman's sister. After I went through the baptism links you posted yesterday I went through the rest of the records for The Ballagh. There I found a Michael Norris, born in 1863, son of Thomas Norris and Ellen (ní Cowman). Now I know they must have been related as this new information you posted seems to clarify the connection between the two families. The N/M difference of the name might also explain why I haven't found more Norris' - I should look for Morris too!!
I will certainly dive into this family further now that I have a location for them.
Thank you again, you've been a wonderful help!!
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This may not affect you given your time periods, but in looking at the Oulart parish registers (what NLI call the "Ballagh") you should be aware that the first register listed (the one from 1837-1853) was a personal register of an individual priest, which he brought with him from one location to the next. The NLI seem to be ignorant of this, but if you look at the register it clearly starts with the priest stationed in Ballindaggin - not Oulart parish at all. His move to Oulart, to the curacy of Ballaghkeene is clearly marked some pages into the register. I don't think this latter portion of the book covers the entire parish, but probably just his curacy. This parish is one of quite a few where the NLI did not film all the surviving register material - there is more locally.
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Thanks for this Wexflyer. As Anne and John were later documented in Castledockrell, it is entirely possible that they were always there as Ballindaggin is right beside it.
I have never approached the parishes to see any of the local registers. To be honest I'm a bit wary of stepping on toes. A distant cousin of mine got a few very negative reactions when she was doing her line. Do you know how receptive they are in that area?
Thanks again for all your help!
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As for how family history researchers are viewed, I think it is variable, and there are some good reasons for why some priests/parishes may be less than keen to help.
In the first place, both my father and I have seen mutilated parish registers, with missing pages which were very clearly cut out, by memento seeking visiting "researchers". Another point is that interest in family history research has exploded, and dealing with requests could become a distraction from their primary mission (the cure of souls, as it used to be put).
That said, others are into history themselves, and delighted to help. For example, 20 years ago the then parish priest of Oulart was the editor of a local history journal, and extremely helpful. All depends on the person, and we made some effort to talk to the priests involved. I think being local helped a lot. Finally, as my experiences with personal visits were almost 20 years ago, I can't really comment on the situation today.
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To be perfectly honest, I don't think I'd be too impressed with history buffs constantly descending on me to access records. I have one particular parish that I will approach but that's only because the record books there are literally heaving with my family so I'd like to see them. For the sake of one or two records, I don't see the point of putting people to all the trouble of rooting out, what are after all, very delicate pieces of history.
I have to say though, I'm very impressed with this forum, the help given by people like yourselves is immeasurable. I've only been on a few days and I'm overwhelmed with how helpful people are. I hadn't expected to find John Cowman's sister, never mind her entire line, but the few links I got here has opened up the entire family. So thank you all for all your help, it really is appreciated.
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From-Houses of Wexford; (David Rowe & Eithne Scallan)
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Killoggy Castle Ferns;
Associated families; Cornock & Rynhart;
Townland; Ferns lower.
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This house may be 17th century.
The Rynharts were a Palatine family.
The Palatines came to the Wexford area in 1709, and were settled into farming by the Ram family of Gorey.
William Rynhart became Stewart for the Cornock lands, and apparently lived in Killoggy as a caretaker during the absence of the Cornock's.
Later the property was transferred into the Rynhart name, Rynhart's have lived in Killoggy for five generations.
The first being, Zachariah Rynhart (d.1874), whose father Henry, lived in Rockspring.
During the troubles the Black & Tans occupied the Castle and the Rynharts withdrew temporarily to Rock House.
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from- House of Wexford; (David Rowe & Eithne Scallan)
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The Rock House, Ferns
Associated families; Borthistle & Rynhart.
Townland; Effernoge
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The last of the Borthistles in residence had four bachelor sons, so the house passed to the Rynharts (see Killoggy Castle) the first of whom was a brother of the last Mrs Brothistle.
There have been three generations of Rynhart.
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from-Houses of Wexford; (David Rowe & Eithne Scallan)
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Cromwell Cottage Ballygorman, Barntown
Associated families; Roche-Howlin-Cowman-Ryan-Lane-Joynt.
Townland; Ballygorman (dereiving from the place of the Cowmans-see above)
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The house was occupied by the Cowmans from about 1852.
In 1866, Elizabeth Cowman married Patrick Ryan of Tomcoole Cross, and it was then the home of the Ryan family until 1957 when Pat Keating (Ballygorman House) moved here.
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Oh wow Jack! This is great stuff. I know very little about Annie Rynhart so every little bit helps to piece together who she might be. I have a very old photo of a lady I believe might be her, but as her family background is so vague I'm not sure.
I do believe she is from Ferns and if this is her family it could explain why she's so well dressed. I will certainly look into all this. Thank you so much for sharing it with me!!
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Hello,
I believe my wife’s great great grandparents were John Cowman, born 1834 and Anne Rynhart (1841-1913).
They had a daughter, Mary, baptised at Monageer, Wexford on 5 Feb 1861.
Mary Cowman married James Mythen a widower in 1883 and they lived in the Ferns area. Their eldest daughter, Margaret was born in 1881 and we believe she was working in the laundries in the 1901 census. Margaret was my wife’s grandmother.
My wife has a number of dna matches with others who show the Reinhardts of Wexford in their family trees.
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Mary Cowman married James Mythen a widower in 1883 and they lived in the Ferns area.
Is this the marriage you are referring to?
James Mithan married Mary Cowman on 23 January 1881 at Oulart RC Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/10995/8020189.pdf
Daughter Ellen born 12 April 1893 at Dranagh townland. MMN Cowman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02301/1863006.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/bantry/rossdroit/the-leap/dranagh/
Youngest son James Midham [sic] born 26 October 1900 at Ballybeg. MMN Cowman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01976/1761547.pdf
1901 census
House 25 in Ballybeg (Ballybeg, Wexford).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Ballybeg/Ballybeg/1792471/
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1911 census (James was a widower).
House 30 in Ballybeg (Ballybeg, Wexford).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Ballybeg/Ballybeg/683105/
Youngest daughter Lizzie Mythen born 23 July 1903 at Ballybeg. MMN Cowman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01860/1724840.pdf
Mary Mythen (from Ballybeg) died 5 September 1910 at Gorey Infirmary.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05421/4515184.pdf
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Thanks Kiltaglassan,
Yes, that’s the family.
Chris
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They have a gravestone at St Columbia’s church Ballyduff