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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: M Jeffrey on Thursday 04 May 17 17:24 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm new to this but I need help, as Ancestry.com & a couple of other sites have just begun to confuse the issue.
My Great-Great Grandparents were John Hibbert, born in1807. He was a Carter by trade. He married Mary ? & they had a family, which included my Great Grandfather, Edward Hibbert, born Ashton under Lyne in 1854, who became a Pork Butcher in Ashton.
I'm looking for John's birth & marriage details, including Mary's maiden name &, if possible both sets of parents.
According to the various census's, Mary was around 5-9 years younger than John.
They had their 1st living child, Mary in 1833/4 & in 1841 they lived in Clay Street, Manchester. However they had moved to Ashton before 1851.
By 1881 John(74) & Mary(65?) were staying in Welbeck Street, Ashton under Lyne, with daughters Martha & Jane, son, John William & granddaughter, Mary Jane.
John died 1 January, 1884, aged 76, his informant was his widow, Mary Hibbert, so she was alive at that time.
I have John's death certificate but finding when my particular Mary died has become yet another task, so if anyone has that info, it too would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Hi
Welcome to rootschat
Could this be Edwards birth registration from the GRO website :-\
HIBBERT, EDWARD mothers maiden name NEWTON
1853 March Quarter
ASHTONUNDERLYNE Volume 08D Page 393
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1861 census
John Hibbert 54
Mary Hibbert 49
Sarah Hibbert 19
Martha Hibbert 17
Jane Hibbert 15
Theresia Hibbert 13
John William Hibbert 11
Amelia Hibbert 9
Edward Hibbert 7
HIBBERT, JOHN WILLIAM mmn NEWTON
1849 June Quarter
ASHTON UNDERLYNE Volume 20 Page 26
HIBBERT, THIRZA mmn NEWTON
1847 June Quarter in ASHTON AND OLDHAM Volume 20 Page 23
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Hi welcome from me too.
1851
Fleet Street, Ashton
John Hibbert 43 born Ashton under Lyne Carter and Courier
Mary Hibbert 39
Mary Hibbert 18
Elizabeth Hibbert 13
Sarah Hibbert 9
Martha Hibbert 7
Jane Hibbert 5
Thirza Hibbert 3
John Hibbert 1
Emala Hibbert 1/12
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Cheshire BMD has
Emelia Hibbert
born 1851 registered twice
mmn Newton and mmn Whaley
Thirza is registered twice as is Edward
So could Mary have been married before?
Heather
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John HIBBERT and Mary WHALEY in 1841 at Manchester Collegiate Church (later Manchester Cathedral)
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Marriage: 9 Nov 1835 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
John Hibbert - Oldham
Betty Newton - (X), Oldham
Witness: Julian Hibbert; James Sheldrick
Married by Banns by: Thomas Tolming
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Thank you both for your info. Some of the birth dates differ from my original but, in the main, most seem to relate to my family.
I have found that the Edward, rosie99 mentioned, had a different birth year to my great grandfather but, in one section of the family, an Edward was born but subsequently died & it transpires that they re-used the family Christian name for continuity!
Having said this, the 1851 & 1861 census details are pretty accurate & thank you Heather for the address as Fleet Street. I was unsure & had it down as Hart Street, which didn't really look right.
I have come across the surname 'Whalley' but 'Newton' is new to me & hasn't come up on any of the research sites, so that's another avenue for me to follow. I have also found a Mary Bowler & a Mary Kinder, so.........
This has left me wondering if John was perhaps married more than once, which often happened in those years & that each wife was called Mary!!!
I think I am now going to get copies of my great grandfather's birth & death certificates & just see if they have any additional details. Thank you.
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I don't think the Prestwich marriage of John to Betty Newton is mine, as 'Julian' is not one of our family names.
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May 16th 1841
Manchester Cathedral
John Hibbert
Full age
Bachelor
Occupation Carder
Abode 41 Queen Street
Father John Hibbert Carder
Mary Whaley
Full Age
Spinster
Abode 36 Butler Street
Father David Whaley Labourer
Witness John Hooley and Charlotte Hooley
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Have you been able to find John and his family in the 1841 census?
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Thank you.
I have both pieces of info but am, at present, unsure if the marriage is the correct one.
Having said this, it's a possibility as the 1841census has John, 43, as a warehouseman, living with his wife Mary, 30, at Clay Street, Manchester, with children, Mary 7 & Benjamin 2 months.
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The 2 Benjamin Hibberts born in Manchester in 1841 have mothers with maiden names Brown and Butterworth
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John was buried in St Peter's Church Ashton
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There is a burial for a Mary Hibbert in St Peter's 24th January 1891 aged 77. Her address was Katherine Street so not far from Welbeck Street.
Have you found Mary in the 1891 census to rule this death out?
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In 1871 the family are at 174 Cotton Street, Edward and John W are Pork Butchers
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Sorry I've not bothered to reply to all these super info filled messages but, I had become quite despondent with my research, so gave up on John Hibbert.
Now I do know a lot about him from marriage details, censuses & his death certificate, so I can go on from there. Thank you.
However, I have now discovered a problem with his wife Mary....
On John's death certificate she is down as 'Mary Whaley', which agrees with the registration of their marriage & her father as being, David Whaley but, there is also further info here relating to her being formerly known as 'Mary Newton'.
Two possible reasons for these details present themselves to me:
1. She had been previously married to a man whose surname was 'Whaley' but, that doesn't agree with the father's info on the marriage registration!
2. Which I think is the most likely. 'Newton' was her mother's surname, either from a previous marriage, or her maiden name & there was a subsequent 'correction of entries' situation, when the father either acknowledged her as his daughter, via a court or church case, or adopted her.
I would be extremely grateful if anyone could throw any light on this matter. :)
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There is a baptism for a Mary Newton at St Michael's Ashton 5th June 1814 mother Elizabeth Newton. No father's name is given.
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Thank you for the info about her mother & birth date etc. I am pretty sure this is correct, though I will finally verify everything in due course.
I have been on various sights but can find no evidence of her poss. adoption by David Whaley.
This could indicate something similar to my maternal grandmother, in respect that her parents never actually married each other but, she had 2 surnames but was always known by her mother's maiden name.
I have decided that I am not too bothered, at this time, about going further back with this part of my family. Thank you anyway.
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From lan-opc
Baptism: 5 Jun 1814 St Michael and All Angels, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Mary Newton, Illegitimate - Daughter of Elizabeth Newton
Born: 29 Apr
Baptised by: John Hutchinson, Rector
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Thank you again. This info is just what I suspected & it is the same as my grandmother's.
Where on earth did you actually find it?
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The information was from
www.lan-opc.org.uk