RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: AllieElsokary on Friday 05 May 17 14:23 BST (UK)
-
I've just started trying to find my fathers line and am stuck on my GG grandfather. His son, my G grandfather, John McFadyen married Mary Goldie 16th July 1866 Kinningpark, Lanark, Scotland. His father is my GG grandfather, Felix McFadyen who married Mary Colgan. This is what is written on John and Mary's marriage certificate.
I cannot find Felix and Mary's marriage certificate. :(
Is there anyone who can hep me get past this early hurdle?
Any help would be much appreciated. :)
Thank you
-
Hello
Where are you looking? If their son married in 1866 they will have married before civil registration began in Scotland in 1855, so there won't be anything in civil records. You'd need to look at OPRs (see ScotlandsPeople), though these provide nothing like a comprehensive coverage of pre-civil era Scottish marriages, due to the large number of religious denominations and also irregular marriages.
-
WOW thank you so much for the quick reply :)
I have searched Scotlands People site and drawn a blank obviously now as you say it was pre 1855. I looked in OPR's and no luck. What do you mean by irregular marriages?
-
You seem to be skipping a step. Before you look for Felix and Mary's marriage, you need to know where and when John was born, hopefully find them on a census together, see what siblings he had.
This will lead you to a good idea of when and where they married, depending on when and where they were born, when and where they had their first child, and where they were on the various censuses.
Is the 1866 date for John's marriage right? I can find a baptism for a John to those parents but it is in 1864:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQQX-7X7
-
Also, have you given us the correct dates, as there are three baptism entries, including a John born 1864, for a Felix McFadyen and Mary Colgan indicated at:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k1x/
oops, cross posted with jorose.
-
I can see four children born to Felix and Mary;
Sarah 1855
Andrew 1858
Isabella 1860
John 1864
Since Isabella was born in Tradeston, I think they are there on the 1861 census, Felix being shown as born in 1828.
I don't have access to the census record, but could they have originated in Ireland?
Bev
-
JoRose ScotMum and Bevj
YES!!! You have done it!! They originally came from Ireland and I have now downloaded the birth cert for John born 1864 which would be right.
Thank you all so much. Sorry for being a pain but my first time trying to do this so it is all new and a bit confusing.☺
I guess my next move is to shift focus to Ireland now and track down Felix and Mary's birth and marriage certificates. They married Dec 9th 1843 in County Derry but I cannot read the town and will have to see if anyone can transcribe that for me. Could you advise a website to check Irish records? Anyone have any idea where to try next and thank you all again so much for all your help.😘😘😘
-
You'll need to know their religion to search in Ireland.
RC you can look here
http://registers.nli.ie/
you can post an snippet showing the name of the town to see if we can work out where it is, it will make a huge difference to your search.
-
Thank you sinann ☺
They are Irish Catholic and thank you for this link. My God I would have no clue without all of your help!
I will try to post a pic of the name☺
-
(http://)
-
I have no idea what that first letter is supposed to be??? 😕
-
see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=770989.msg6237640#msg6237640
and details of Glenone townland, as it does seem to read as that:
map https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/loughinsholin/tamlaght-ocrilly/glenone/
some history http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/LDY/TamlaghtOcrilly
-
Bless you ScotsMum 😀
-
From Tithe Applotment records, there was:
Colgan, Roger Townland: Glenone Year: 1833
and in another townland in the parish:
McFadden, Jno. Townland: Innisrush Year: 1833
so certainly worth checking them further.
-
Unfortunately, the wedding date seems to miss the available records for Greenlough, which was the name of the Roman Catholic parish for the area. Some sources indicate they start in 1846 for marriages. Other sources suggest a few earlier marriages are available, but again, not 1843:
http://www.from-ireland.net/tag/tamlaght-ocrilly/
-
It might be worth checking for potential births, though, by viewing the Greenlough register at:
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633046#page/2/mode/1up
albeit none obvious at moment. Some pages are very difficult to read.
There is a birth in 1850 of a Henrietta McFadden to a Sally McFadden of Glenone.
-
1861 census has a John Colgan, born Ireland, and family living at King Street, Govan, Tradeston. Also in household are his elderly parents, Rodger & Margaret Colgan aged 72 & 77, both born Ireland.
Mary and Felix McFadyen were also living in King Street in 1861, with eldest two children born Ireland. Like John Colgan, Felix's occupation was a Stevedore.
Rodger Colgan died in Tradeston district in 1866.
-
Blimey! You are amazing!! It is so late here now in Cairo, I will sleep now and read and absorb all of this tomorrow...today😁
Thank you so so much😍
-
....I think they are there on the 1861 census, Felix being shown as born in 1828.
There is something wrong here - if Felix was aged 33 in 1861 he wouldn't have been married in 1843.
Debra :)
-
In the timescale, 15yrs old, whilst not common, was an acceptable age for marriage for a male. That said, it is more than possible that the age on the census is 'out' by a few years.
Also, whilst on ages/dates, to avoid confusion, the John McFadyen to Mary Goldie marriage in AllieElsokary's first post should read 1886 not 1866.
John is still living with his mum at 1881, in Kinning Park area, but by then she is noted as widowed.
Did the marriage certificate for John, note Felix as deceased?
-
For background- here's map showing Glenone townland (haven't been there since Tuesday evening)-
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/loughinsholin/tamlaght-ocrilly/glenone/
I would have suggested checking Portglenone registers for the marriage as well but unfortunately the online records don't go back far enough.
-
Thank you again for all who are helping me. I could not do this without your help. I am so grateful to you all. :)
Yes Felix was deceased when his son married Scotmum
Here is his certificate
-
Can you please tell me what the link is to view these census's?
-
Today I will screenshot all the pages of this Glenone register you gave me the link to here and put them in order and search through them. Once I have this register all as one file I can send it to anyone who might be interested in having a copy of it. :)
-
Hi there :)
Bev mentioned early on that there was a daughter Sarah born in Glasgow in 1855 - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQWD-LP8
You can view this online on SP. The first year of Scottish official registration and all BMD certs ran over two pages of the register with a wealth of extra info for one year only. For births, it should confirm the marriage date and place, parents' ages and often where they were born. Also, how many children they had, alive/deceased, girls/boys. Worth checking for the extra info and what it may show.
Monica
-
WOW!! Thank you MonicaL :)
You guys are amazing!
I will finish copying this register for checking and then do this as soon as I'm finished.
Bless you :) :-*
-
There is a baptism for Jane daughter of Felix McFadden and Mary Colgan on Apr 3 1849 in Glenone ( page 13 of the register).
Isobel
-
Thank you dear
I have just bought Sarah's birth cert from SP as you advised.
The file to too big so I had to cut it to post here but there are more people on the page and I will post about them soon in another post so people can have a copy :)
This is hers
-
2nd page
-
The details on their children matches well with the family's 1861 entry, with two girls born before Sarah. Just for background here:
Felix Mcfadyen 33 Stevedore b. Ireland
Mary Mcfadyen 35 b. Ireland
Margaret Mcfadyen 14 Wool Spinner b. Ireland
Mary Jane Mcfadyen 10 b. Ireland
Sarah Mcfadyen 5 b. Ireland
Andrew Mcfadyen 3
Isabella Mcfadyen 5 Months
Address: 62 King St, Tradeston, Glasgow/Govan
1871, Mary a widow possibly:
Mary Mcfadgen 40 b. Ireland, c tyrone
Mary Mcfadgen 19 Cotton Weaver b. Ireland, c tyrone
Sarah Mcfadgen 15 Cotton Weaver b Glasgow
Isabella Mcfadgen 9 b. Glasgow
John Mcfadgen 7 b Glasgow
Address: 129 Main St, Hutchesonton, Glasgow/Gorbals
Monica
-
Felix, father, his death?? Struggling to see that between 1861-81 so far.... :-\
Monica
-
If the marriage took place 1845 in Portglenone the online records only start 1864 (with nothing showing elsewhere earlier) but 1845 Greenlough marriages are on pay site- however, I suspect records might show little detail-
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0369&parish=Greenlough
-
Again thank you guys for all of your help and advice. It is so much appreciated by this newbie.
Both census' seem to match well but I can find no death of Felix in Glasgow, or Scotland between these census'
Now how unusual would that be do you think?
Maybe he died abroad in a war? Do all soldiers who are killed in action and missing in action end up getting a death certificate of some kind? If he falls in the Clyde say and body is not recovered is there some Way that would be documented? It just seems strange. Also could I ask where did you view all this info of the both census' please somI can get ancopy of them.
Bless you all 😘
-
Felix, father, his death?? Struggling to see that between 1861-81 so far.... :-\
Monica
Ditto :-\
Closest but with area & age difference (transcription error maybe)?
MCFADYEN
FELIX
32
1874
625/2 148
Holytown
If age 32 is an error for 52 this could almost fit but the area is a ?
Annie
-
According to the FindMyPast transcription Mary was calling herself a widow in 1871.
Isobel
-
Felix, father, his death?? Struggling to see that between 1861-81 so far.... :-\
Monica
Ditto :-\
Closest but with area & age difference (transcription error maybe)?
MCFADYEN
FELIX
32
1874
625/2 148
Holytown
If age 32 is an error for 52 this could almost fit but the area is a ?
Annie
I found a birth for a Felix in 1873 in Helensburgh just outside Glasgow. I'm wondering if this Felix death age could be an error and should read 2 and not 32 or 52?
Do you think from what you see of the death that this might be so?
-
Thanks Isobel ;)
I have tried every scenario for the death of Felix with spelling e.g. Phelix/McPha & have found. nothing
AllieE
To be fair I would tend to check later census' for this Felix b 1873.
Annie
-
YES!! Success ;D
In Greenlough Parish Register
3rd April 1849 was baptised a child Jane born to Felix McFadden and Mary Colgan
This is the deceased girl mentioned in the Census of 1861 as being deceased
Now I have to search for the brother mentioned who was also deceased in 1861 and the births of Margaret and Mary Jane who survived.
:)
-
Yes good idea Annie :)
-
The two deaths of the boy and girl show on the 1855 birth cert you now have had taken place by 1855.
Monica
-
The two deaths of the boy and girl show on the 1855 birth cert you now have had taken place by 1855.
Monica
Yes Monica
I have found Jane in 1849 and am going through the register again slowly to find Margaret in 1847, the other boy who died before Sarah in 1855 and Mary Jane obviously named after her dead sister Jane in 1851.
I'm going cross eyed searching as some are very hard to read :)
-
Found Henrietta now born 26th April 1850 to Sally McFadyen Glenone, which might means another family member, maybe sister of Felix??
-
Does anyone know what the second line below the baptism listing is?
Is it witness do you think?
Is this Cath Mc Cormack? who would that be?
-
It is the name of the sponsor or sponsors, so likely someone chosen by the parents.
Have a read at http://www.rathminesparish.ie/sacraments-a-services/2-uncategorised/64-why-baptism-some-general-pointers to help you understand the role.
-
Been through the register twice now and cannot find baptism of Margaret born 1847
She is in the Glasgow Census 1861probably married by the 1871 Census
Making me think maybe Felix and Mary Colgan married elsewhere and Margaret maybe baptised elsewhere if it's not in the Glenone register.
Will keep searching for Mary Jane born 1851and the deceased boy was obviously born 1851-1855 ? Ireland or Glasgow
:)
-
It is the name of the sponsor or sponsors, so likely someone chosen by the parents.
ah lovely Scotmum another mystery solved :)
-
Just thought, have you traced through to a death for Mary Colgan? Might help you in confirming at least her parents' names and extended family.
Monica
-
Monica
I had a few days rest, my head was spinning and I have tons of notes to sort out and leads to follow and for sure that is on my list of TO DO'S 😉
Thank you so much for all your help😘
-
Felix, father, his death?? Struggling to see that between 1861-81 so far.... :-\
Monica
Ditto :-\
Closest but with area & age difference (transcription error maybe)?
MCFADYEN
FELIX
32
1874
625/2 148
Holytown
If age 32 is an error for 52 this could almost fit but the area is a ?
Annie
I solved this one by getting death cert and was a single man killed by a crane aged 32 😥
-
Just thought, have you traced through to a death for Mary Colgan? Might help you in confirming at least her parents' names and extended family.
Monica
Yes I have gone back and also her brother John and his children😀
Having big problem finding Roger Colgan and Jno McFadden on tithe applotment registers??? Which Scotmum mentioned earlier.
Can you please give me the link to this info as I cannot find it at all??? 😀
-
I have been searching for years now trying to find out the fate of my GGG Dad Felix McFadyen. I have narrowed it down to his death occurring between 1867 and 1869. He was born in Glenone, Ireland 1825. Moved to Glasgow with his wife Mary Colgan and a few kids. For some reason he goes off radar between 67-69 and I can find no record of his death although he is reported as deceased on one of his children's marriage certificate 1869. Can''t find hide nor hair of him. Anyone any clues, suggestions? did he die on a ship going somewhere? Would be so grateful for any help offered.
-
Hi Allie
Gosh, you have been searching for a while now! Just adding link to previous post for background.
Threads merged.
Monica
-
Yes Monica, done an amazing amount of work and grown my tree hugely in all direction but this one has confounded me completely. Just wish I could solve this mystery. ???
-
I have been searching for years now trying to find out the fate of my GGG Dad Felix McFadyen.
I have narrowed it down to his death occurring between 1867 and 1869.
He was born in Glenone, Ireland 1825. Moved to Glasgow with his wife Mary Colgan and a few kids.
For some reason he goes off radar between 67-69 and I can find no record of his death although he is reported as deceased on one of his children's marriage certificate 1869. Can''t find hide nor hair of him.
Anyone any clues, suggestions? did he die on a ship going somewhere? Would be so grateful for any help offered.
Sorry no help with a death ???
Just for anyone else looking is this Felix on the 1861 census?
King Street, Govan, Tradeston, Lanarkshire
Felix McFadyen Head Ireland occ Stevedore
Mary McFadyen Wife I reland
Margaret McFadyen Ireland Wool Spinner
Mary Jane McFadyen Ireland
Sarah McFadyen Glasgow
Andrew McFadyen Glasgow
Isabella McFadyen Glasgow
-
Do you have the burial place of Felix's wife Mary?
-
The details on their children matches well with the family's 1861 entry, with two girls born before Sarah. Just for background here:
Felix Mcfadyen 33 Stevedore b. Ireland
Mary Mcfadyen 35 b. Ireland
Margaret Mcfadyen 14 Wool Spinner b. Ireland
Mary Jane Mcfadyen 10 b. Ireland
Sarah Mcfadyen 5 b. Ireland
Andrew Mcfadyen 3
Isabella Mcfadyen 5 Months
Address: 62 King St, Tradeston, Glasgow/Govan
1871, Mary a widow possibly:
Mary Mcfadgen 40 b. Ireland, c tyrone
Mary Mcfadgen 19 Cotton Weaver b. Ireland, c tyrone
Sarah Mcfadgen 15 Cotton Weaver b Glasgow
Isabella Mcfadgen 9 b. Glasgow
John Mcfadgen 7 b Glasgow
Address: 129 Main St, Hutchesonton, Glasgow/Gorbals
Yes, Ladyhawk. That is the right family. By 1871, Mary is showing as head of household (Find my Past have her as widowed on their index). A marriage in 1869 for one of the children had Felix as deceased too.
Son John in 1871 was born on 9 July 1864 so around there to 1869 is the window it seems for Felix's death.
Monica
-
Son John in 1871 was born on 9 July 1864 so around there to 1869 is the window it seems for Felix's
death
Thank you MonicaL
Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Burials
There are a number of burial entries for persons named
Mary McFADDEN/McFAYDEN/McFAYDAN born between 1821 - 1829 buried at
St Peter’s Cemetery, Dalbeth, Glasgow.
Sorry could find no death entries for a Felix McFayden between 1864 - 1870 ???
the only burial I could find McFadyen is named Allan born 1828 died 1864
All I could find was this transcription on Scotland, Stirlingshire & Perthshire Burials 1755-2019
no death year, no age :-\
F M Place Logie Cemetery Stirlingshire section Kirk Row 12 number 207