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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Joanne1969 on Saturday 06 May 17 14:22 BST (UK)

Title: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Saturday 06 May 17 14:22 BST (UK)
Hi, this is my first try on Roots chat - it looks great what I have seen so far.

I was wondering if there is anyone that could possibly help me in searching for my Great Grandfather's birth registration district? I'm finding difficulty in pin pointing a correct area.

He was born in 1889/1890 by my calculation

David William Davies 1891 census age 1 birth year 1890 place of birth Penyfordd, Flintshire, Wales
                               1901 census age 11 birth year 1890 place of birth Hope, Flintshire, Wales
                               1911 census age 21 birth year 1890 place of birth Hope, Flintshire, Wales

He was one of twelve and according to the 1911 census he had a sibling that died but I have no name of that brother or sister or when it happened.

His parents were John and Mary Anne Davies (Anne) (Ann) (A) three variations - I'm struggling to find a marriage for his parents but still trying.

His Father was born in Llanarmon DC/Tregeiriog Denbighshire - (This is giving me the same issues also of district registration)

His Mother born in Mold, Flintshire.

David William's elder sister's (Elizabeth A, Sarah E and Katie) were born in Mold, Flintshire and I have found baptisms easily.

His younger bother's and sister's were born in Newtown, Montgomeryshire and have I their births/baptisms.  It seems the place Penyfordd (Pen-y-fordd) is a road in the parish of Higher Kinnerton - although Hope comes up on some searches it isn't my family.

I have been researching districts etc and it seems that Higher Kinnerton is in the parish of Hope, it also mentions Dodleston, Cheshire. 

So, I tried searching David William his elder sister Harriet Anne and younger brother John Robert (All born in Hope Flintshire) - in Cheshire and I have found all three but unfortunately no baptisms.

All years of birth on census records are a year higher than what I've found on Find my past but could work out if I try and calculate the age against which month the census was taken and which quarter.

To conclude, I want to find out if Hope births could have come under the registered area of Chester, Cheshire.

I'm not sure should I have put all this information on my request but sort of had to explain my issue.

Any information or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Joanne Davies
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 06 May 17 15:30 BST (UK)
Hi,,,And welcome to the forum. Do you have his mothers maiden name?
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Saturday 06 May 17 15:45 BST (UK)
Hi and thank you.
Finding it very new to get around this site  :)
No unfortunately not. 
There are many John and Mary's in that area that were married.
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 06 May 17 15:53 BST (UK)
Hi and welcome  :)

Hope was moved around a bit for civil registration purposes!  Genuki have this :

Quote
In the GRO indexes to civil registration, entries for Hope are found under:

    Years 1837 - 1851: Wrexham XXVII. nnn
    Years 1852 - 1870: Wrexham 11b. nnn
    Years 1871 - 1902: Chester 8a. nnn
    Years 1903 - 1946: Hawarden 11b. nnn

Llanarmon/Tregeiriog was in the Corwen Registration District. 

I've got a few church records of the area so will have a look and get back if I find anything relevant.

Gadget
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 06 May 17 15:56 BST (UK)
can you post the details of one of the births you are sure about .?
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 06 May 17 15:56 BST (UK)
Just noticed your comment re Penyffordd. it was a small township in the Hope parish - near Wrexham.  I stayed there once with family friends  :)
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Saturday 06 May 17 15:59 BST (UK)
I have a baptism of David William's sister Katie Davies


25 Jan 1855 • The, parish, of, Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 06 May 17 16:01 BST (UK)
i need the details of one of his siblings?
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 06 May 17 16:08 BST (UK)
this may be the marriage

First name(s)   JOHN
Last name   DAVIES
Marriage quarter   1
Marriage year   1882

Mary Ann Dykins,
District   Holywell
District number   -
County   Flintshire
Country   Wales
Volume   11B
Page   310
Record set   England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 06 May 17 16:09 BST (UK)
DAVIES, DAVID  WILLIAM     mmn DYKINS     
1889  June Quarter in CHESTER  Volume 08A  Page 454

DAVIES, KATIE       mmn DYKINS    
1885  March Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 11B  Page 243

DAVIES, RUPERT       mmn DYKINS     
1897  Sept Quarter in NEWTOWN  Volume 11B  Page 169

DAVIES, GWENDOLINE       mmn DYKENS    
1900  March Quarter in NEWTOWN  Volume 11B  Page 152

Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 06 May 17 16:16 BST (UK)
   Mother's Maiden Surname:    
DAVIES, SARAH  ELLEN     DYKINS     
GRO Reference: 1883  J Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 11B  Page 281
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 06 May 17 16:18 BST (UK)
DAVIES, JOHN  ROBERT     mmn DYKINS     
1891  Sept Quarter in CHESTER  Volume 08A  Page 423
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Saturday 06 May 17 16:19 BST (UK)
I can't quite believe that, that is amazing I found a Mary Ann Dykins that married either John Davies of Benjamin Owens but couldn't find anything to back it up.

I can't tell you how happy you've made myself and my Mother - we have been looking for over twelve months.

You have proved such a lot for me, I'm thrilled.  Can't wait to check out Mary Ann Dykins!!!

Major thanks Rosie99  ;)
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 06 May 17 16:22 BST (UK)
In case you don't know the GRO website now shows mothers maiden names prior to 1911 - you just need to register, it is free to search
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Saturday 06 May 17 16:28 BST (UK)
Hi Gortonboy thanks so much I'm having difficulty replying to you all but I'll get used to it - you've got the right sister Sarah Ellen known as "Nell" !

And Mary Dykins my Grt Grt Grandmother wow I'm so pleased and impressed at this forum thank you so much I'm looking forward to going a generation back again.  (with a bit of luck)

Thanks again for your time and knowledge

Joanne
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 06 May 17 16:31 BST (UK)
1871 census
Maes Dre, Mold, Holywell, Flintshire, Wales

 
Margaret   Dykins   Head      b 1836   -   Flintshire, Wales   
Catherine   Dykins   Daughter   -b1862   -   Flintshire, Wales   
Mary Ann   Dykins   Daughter   -b1864   -   Flintshire, Wales   
Harriet   Dykins   Daughter   -b1868   -   Flintshire, Wales   
Elenor   Dykins   Daughter   -b1871   -   Flintshire, Wales   
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 06 May 17 16:36 BST (UK)
the 1871 census states mum is a widow,,,,however,,the childrens birth record states mothers maiden name as Dykins?  cant find Mary Anns birth reference? 

Name:   Mother's Maiden Surname:    
DYKINS, ELEANOR       DYKINS     
GRO Reference: 1870  M Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 11B  Page 299
DYKINS, HARRIETT       DYKINS     
GRO Reference: 1868  M Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 11B  Page 279
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 06 May 17 16:39 BST (UK)
See my earlier post. Hope came under Chester for the period in which he was born.

Ignore - I see Rosie's been looking while I've been washing my hair!
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 07 May 17 11:55 BST (UK)
Marriage FreeBMD;
Dec 1861, Holywell 11b 497
William DYKINS and Margaret DYKINS on same page

Familysearch confirms, William Dykins married Margaret Dykins, 13 October 1861, Mold, Flinstshire
(no other details unfortunately)

   
Death Reg FreeBMD
WILLIAM Dykins, March 1870, Holywell, 11b 227
Age 29***
(Birth c 1841)


Possible for Margaret;
MARGARET Dykins
Baptised 14 January 1835, St Winefride, Holywell
Parents EVAN/ALICE
(FreeREG)
(strangely this appears on FreeREG1, the original site, but not on FreeREG2, the new one)
Siblings Baptisms;
WILLIAM 1 Jan 1832
ANNE 1 July 1836


A Tree has a image if Williams Funeral Card, has him dying 7 Jan 1870 age 27*
Interred St Mary, Mould, 11 Jan 1870
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 07 May 17 12:40 BST (UK)
A Tree has a image of Margarets Baptism, abode Greenfield, Fathers Occp Shoemaker

1841 Census
Greenfield, Holywell
Alice Dykins, 35, Grocer
William Dykins, 10
MARGARET Dykins, 1 (down wrongly should be 6, also children are usually listed by ages))
Ann Dykins, 5
Elias Dykins, 3

GRO Index:    
DYKINS, ELIAS, Mothers maiden name WILLIAMS******
GRO Reference: 1838  S Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 27  Page 216

1851 Census Margaret Dykins born c 1835 Greenfield is a Servant with the Trehearne Family.

Father Evan died young;
Daeth REg GRO Index;
DYKINS, EVAN, age 37*****
GRO Reference: 1840  S Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 27  Page 147

Married in England;
Familysearch.Org;
Evan DYKINS to Alice WILLIAMS, 27 December 1830, Saint David, Liverpool, Lancashire, England


 
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 07 May 17 13:00 BST (UK)
1851 Census
Greenfield, Holywell
Alice Dykins, 46, Head, Widow, Helps Farmer,  born Caernarvonshire, Wales
William Dykins, 19, Son, Unm, Engine Driver
Anne Dykins, 14, Daug
Elias Dykins, 12, Son
Children all born Greenfield, Flintshire

Cant find Alice in 1861 yet but is Widowed again by 1871.
Still in Greenfield, Flintshire;
Alice Matthews, 67, Widow, Midwife, born Llannwchlyn, Cambridgeshire (Caernarvonshire on image)
Elias Dykinis, 32, Son, Unm, Shoemaker

1871 Census
Alice Dykins, 57, Charwoman
Elias Dykins, 42

Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 07 May 17 13:14 BST (UK)
Thanks for your PM Joanne,

Last info for now;

Marriage Reg FreeBMD;
Dec 1857 Great Broughton, 8a 460
Alice DYKINS and William MATTHEWS on same page.
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 07 May 17 13:17 BST (UK)
You are so lucky as Alices 2nd Marriage is on Familysearch.Org with her Fathers name.
I will let you find it yourself in 1857 Chester, Cheshire, England.

If you reply on here later I will get an email and will try and find info on William Dykins for you tomorrow.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 20 May 17 13:15 BST (UK)
Re your PM.
This looks like Evan from this entry on Familysearch.Org.

EVAN Dykins
birth: 22 February 1805   
baptism: 24 February 1805   Holywell, Flintshire, Wales

The entry is on Findmypast which is a pay per view site that I dont use.

Someone else may be able to help you who has access or Holywell Parish Records.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 20 May 17 13:59 BST (UK)
Ok a Tree has Evan on it, married Alice Williams, no Children etc for them though.
It has his Parents as John DYKINS 1772-1834 and Elizabeth JONES 1775
Children of John/Mary;
Mary 1794-1864
Edward 1797-1870
John 1800-1878
Elen 1802
Evan 1805
Philip 1807-1891
Thomas 1810
Joseph 1812
William 1814
Elizabeth 1817-1841 (married William JONES**)

They have no Marriage date for John/Elizabeth but its on F/S.Org;   

MARRIAGE;
17 May 1794, Nannerch, Flintshire, Wales
John DYKINS age 22 to Elizabeth JONES

Now I cant confirm all of this except the Marriage.

But they are wrong with Elizabeth Jones nee Dykins dying 1841

1851 Census in Holywell we have;
Elizabeth Jones, 33, Head, Mar, ? Wife
Mary Ann Jones, 8
Walter Jones, 3
Mary Dykins, 61, Sister, Unm, Formerly Dress maker

Marys age is a little out, 1841 she is born c 1796 as Mary Dinkens. Living with William/Elizabeth Jones.
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 20 May 17 14:04 BST (UK)
F/S has these Burials;

ELIZABETH Dykins
Age 63
Birth   1774   
Burial: 18 May 1837, Bagillt, Flintshire, Wales

JOHN Dykins
Age 62
Birth 1772
1 December 1834, Bagillt, Flintshire, Wales
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Saturday 27 May 17 13:10 BST (UK)
Hi Trish, thanks for the latest Dykins information.  You have put me in a very good place with the Dykins part of my family tree.
Joanne ;D
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: newbe_nz on Monday 03 June 19 10:22 BST (UK)
Ok a Tree has Evan on it, married Alice Williams, no Children etc for them though.
It has his Parents as John DYKINS 1772-1834 and Elizabeth JONES 1775
Children of John/Mary;
Mary 1794-1864
Edward 1797-1870
John 1800-1878
Elen 1802
Evan 1805
Philip 1807-1891
Thomas 1810
Joseph 1812
William 1814
Elizabeth 1817-1841 (married William JONES**)

They have no Marriage date for John/Elizabeth but its on F/S.Org;   

MARRIAGE;
17 May 1794, Nannerch, Flintshire, Wales
John DYKINS age 22 to Elizabeth JONES

Now I cant confirm all of this except the Marriage.

But they are wrong with Elizabeth Jones nee Dykins dying 1841

1851 Census in Holywell we have;
Elizabeth Jones, 33, Head, Mar, ? Wife
Mary Ann Jones, 8
Walter Jones, 3
Mary Dykins, 61, Sister, Unm, Formerly Dress maker

Marys age is a little out, 1841 she is born c 1796 as Mary Dinkens. Living with William/Elizabeth Jones.

Hi There,

I see this thread is 2 yrs old. I am also trying to find out when Elizabeth JONES nee DYKINS died. I know it was after 1841. I know she married a William JONES.

If Joanne1969 wants to contact me she is welcome to. I am also researching the DYKINS Family as well.

Regards
Newbe
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 03 June 19 13:22 BST (UK)
Is this the Elizabeth Jones nee Dykins you are researching?

1851 Census we have;
William Jones, 39
Elizabeth Jones, 30
Peter Jones, 19
Mary Ellin Jones, 9
Catherine Frances Jones, 7
Price Hope Jones, 4
Alphed Jones, 1*****

**Look at image is not Alphed or Alfred
(see below)

Elizabeth is age 30 on the image and it looks to me that William remarried to another Elizabeth.


JONES, MARY  ELLEN, Mothers mn DYKINS*** 
GRO Reference: 1842  J Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 27  Page 243

JONES, SARAH  ANN, Mother DYKINS 
GRO Reference: 1845  M Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 27  Page 244

JONES, PRICE, Mother JONES*** 
GRO Reference: 1846  S Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 27  Page 223

JONES, ABEDNESS, Mother   JONES*** 
GRO Reference: 1849  D Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 27  Page 204

Trish :)

Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 03 June 19 13:52 BST (UK)
JONES, ELIZABETH age 27*** 
GRO Reference: 1845  M Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 27  Page 243

JONES, SARAH  ANN age 1** 
GRO Reference: 1846  S Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 27  Page 148

So it looks possible Elizabeth died in childbirth with Sarah Ann. And the poor child died a year later.

1841 in Llanasa we have;
William Jones   30
Elizabeth Jones   20
Peter Jones   8

I may have this all wrong but with such a name Jones its hard to be sure.
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 03 June 19 14:04 BST (UK)
Marriage of William/Elizabeth; 9 March 1836, Bagillt, Flintshire, Wales

JONES, JOHN  DYKINS, Mother DYKINS** 
GRO Reference: 1839  S Quarter in HOLYWELL  Volume 27  Page 195
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 03 June 19 14:50 BST (UK)
1871 in Lancashire we have;
John H Minshull, 24, Head, Mar, Railway Clerk , born Manchester
Catherine Minshull, 25, Wife, Mar, born Flintshire**
Emily Minshull, 8 Months, Daug
Mary Jones, 27, Sister in Law, Unm, Governess, born Flintshire**
Robert Jones, 25, Boarder, Unm, Clerk

1881 in Lancashire;
John H. Minshull   34
Catherine F. Minshull 35
Emily M. Minshull 10
John H. Minshull   8
Elizabeth M. Minshull   5
Isac W. Minshull   1
Elizabeth Jones   59 Mother in Law, Widow ****
Emily J. Jones   27 Sister in Law born Llanasa***

MINSHULL, EMILY  MATILDA, Mother JONES** 
GRO Reference: 1870  S Quarter in CHORLTON  Volume 08C  Page 640

1891 in Lancs;

Elizabeth Jones   66
Press H Jones   43
Emily J Jones   39
Elizabeth Jones   33
William J Pearce   14
Emily J Pearce   13
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: newbe_nz on Tuesday 04 June 19 00:41 BST (UK)
Hi Trish,

I am researching Elizabeth DYKINS born about 1817 who married a William JONES
The 2 children I have for them are John Dykins JONES born 1839 (baptism 12 July 1839) Holywell, Flintshire, Wales, and Mary Ellen JONES born 1843. I am not sure if there were more children or not.
I believe she died after 1841.
Title: Re: Births/Baptisms Hope Flintshire
Post by: trish1120 on Tuesday 04 June 19 13:43 BST (UK)
Hi newbe-nz,

Have a read through what i posted all the info you required is there;

William Jones/Eliza Dykins Marriage date;
3 chilren to them
John Dykins Jones
Mary Ellen Jones
Sarah Ann Jones

Seems to me Elizabeth died 1845 age 27 ( born c 1818)
Sarah Ann died the next year age 1

William remarried another Elizabeth and had;
Price 1846
Abedness 1849
These have on their GRO birth regs Mothers maiden name as JONES

I have no idea who Catherine Frances 1844 belongs too, likely 2nd Wife Elizabeths Daughter.

I cant pin down as second Marriage for William Jones as Elizabeth may have been a Widow and the it could be under any name, But from birth regs her maiden name was Jones