RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: nelwild on Monday 08 May 17 15:51 BST (UK)
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Hello.
I'm trying to find out more about the man who I believe is my 3xgreat grandfather.I have found him on the 1881 census and all later ones with his age varying,but birthplace always Hastings.
1881 born 1855
1891 born 1858
1901 born 1849
1911 born 1849
I cant find an Albert Hart born Hastings on earlier census,but there is an Albert born 1856 in Rye.As Rye is only 12 miles from Hastings,does anyone else think this is him?And given that my Albert doesn't appear to have married,is there any other way I can match him to the Albert on 1871 with father Charles.
Many thanks.
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Just a bit more.There is no birth on Ancestry for an Albert in Hastings,only one for Rye in 1856.There is a death registered in Elham,the district where he was on 1911,in 1928 showing birth estimated 1856 which could be him.There is also a death for a Susannah same district in 1924 born c1850 which I belive is his wife.
Thanks.
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I see no reason why he can't be the Albert born Rye.
That family appear to have moved around, according to 1861 census
John Hart age 7 bn Battle
Albert age 5 bn Rye
William age 2 bn Hastings.
The family moved after Alberts birth and all he has known was living in Hastings area and probably thought that was where he was born. ::)
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New Gro indices gives Albert Hart born 1856 Rye mmn Hewett
On the 1871 census in Hastings there are two possible siblings, Elizabeth and Charles.
Elizabeth Martha born 1850 Battle Union mmn Hewett
Charles 1864 Hastings mmn Hewett.
Cathy
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Many thanks.
I'm inclined to agree,i just wanted to see what others thought.The maiden name is very useful as I haven't been able to find a marriage.Now I can look at the rest of Alberts family.Thanks again.
Nel.
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Cath151,
Please can you tell me is it possible to view these Gro indices online;if so is it free.Is it possible to search for people using mmn,and vice versa.
Many thanks.
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Hi,
Sorry ,been away for a couple of days, the new indices with mothers maiden name can be searched at the usual site, you have to register but its free.
The only thing is you can t search by mothers maiden name alone, you must put in a surname of the possible child.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
Cathy :)
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Thanks a lot,much appreciated.
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Ist this then in 1851? Appears so to me.
Lodgers in Battle;
Joseph Goodman, 43
Harriet Goodman, 36
William Goodman, 7
Martha F Goodman, 3
Savanna Willes, 2
Charles HARES, 37, Lodger, Sawyer, born Tierahenham, Middlesex (sic)
Mary Hares, 25, born Tierahenham, Middlesex (sic)
Elizabeth Hares, 8mths, born Battle****
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May I ask why you think that Albert is your 3x Grandfather when he and Susannah had no Children?
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Sorry about the delay in replying.
I cant be certain that he is.I cant even be sure that the Susannah who appears on the 1881 onwards is my 3xgreat grandmother.All I do know is that after 1871,i can find no Susannah Pain/e or Payne born Margate c1852 on the census,nor any death or marriage record.Ive used a process of elimination looking at Susannahs born c1852 in Margate to reach the conclusion that the Susannah with Albert post 1871 is her.
Susannah only had one child that I'm aware of,my 2xgreat grandmother Sarah Amelia Pain/Payne.I have her birth certificate;this is what it says:
14th March 1870 Sarah Amelia girl no father shown mother Susannah Sarah Pain x the mark of Susannah Sarah Pain mother Whitstable 24th March 1870 W Amos Registrar.
Its all a bit of a mystery to be honest.Sarah Amelia is on the census after 1870 being raised by other family in Whitstable with no sign of Susannah.If she is with Albert Hart in Folkstone,it seems she lived out her life away from her family,almost like shes in exile.
Sarah Amelia went on to have 3 children,one of whom was my great grandmother.All three were also illegitimate,no father shown on the birth or marriage certificates,so ive no idea who my great grandfather was,or whether he was the father of the other 2.
Any other suggestions would be much appreciated.
Nel.
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There is this baptism, same area
1st August 1875, Herne
Caroline
mother Susan Pain
abode Herne Union
Single Woman
Can't see a birth registration in Blean. Can't say whether the mother is your Susannah.
John
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Thanks for the reply.
On the 1861 census,Susannah was in Thanet workhouse,described as an abandonded child.By 1871,she was in Whitstable,living with her mother and stepfather.So with Herne being a Whitstable reg district,and Herne union being the local workhouse,its possible.Can you see what might potentially have become of Caroline?Is there any way of knowing for sure whether this is my Susannah with another child?
Ive been looking back over all my research,ive spotted something that could suggest that Susannah and her "daughter"might in fact be sisters rather than mother and daughter,so that's left me reeling a bit.
I'm going to post a longer message on the Kent forum as most of it relates to there.Any more help would be greatly appreciated.
Nel.
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Hi
I can see no sign of Caroline later, and there was another Susan Payn/Pain in Blean in 1871, so its by no means certain that this is your lady.
I guess we would need her age at least from the workhouse records to have a better idea.
John
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Thanks.
I'm not sure if workhouse records can be viewed online.Ive got quite a few ancestors who were in various ones.
Nel.
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This link shows what records are available for Thanet workhouse
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Thanet/