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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: coola2 on Tuesday 09 May 17 04:10 BST (UK)
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Trying to find any information on John Ramsay born 1780 Rothbury to parents Robert Ramsay born 1754 and Elizabeth Henderson Born 1754.
Jenny
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1841 census. Walbottle. Newburn, Northumberland.
John Ramsay. 60. engineer.
Rachel Ramsay. 26. Rachel baptised 29 Sep 1816, Newburn. Northumberland. father John. mother Rachel.
Likely marriage, John Ramsay - Rachel Donkin. 24 Oct 1808. Newcastle upon Tyne. Northumberland.
Baptism.
John Ramsay. 23 Sep 1780. Rothbury, Northumberland. father Robert, mother Elisabeth.
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Free Reg has this baptism at Rothbury
John RAMSAY 23 Sept 1780. Father - Robert RAMSAY, mother - ELisabeth HENDERSON.
Register note: illegitimate son, father: of Bullbush, mother: of Green Leighton in Hartburn Parish
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The census that solidrock found also has at the same address:
Margaret BARNES 70
William HENDERSON 30
(Both born in county)
HO107/823/3
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There is a Rachael RAMSAY death registered Castle Ward in Jun qtr 1838 aged 61. Sounds like a good for match for John's wife?
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Robert RAMSEY looks to have married Elizabeth HALL 17 Nov 1781, All Saints, Rothbury
Bachelor/Spinster
Both living in Casteron
They Baptise a Daug ELIZABETH Ramsey 31 Marc 1783 same Church
There is a Burial same Church 15 Aug 1819, Robert Ramsay, age 65, abode Caistron
(birth c 1754**)
Elizabeth may have been buried same Church 30 March 1817 age 70
(birth c 1747)
Also I cant fin a Casteron in Northumberland so the Marriage may have been abode Caistron which is the same place of abode on Roberts Burial.
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I think it's probably Caiston.
There was a local census done in Rothbury in 1816 - see page 18 for Robert Ramsay
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/Rothbury/Rothbury1816
Christine
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Well Christine that is one of the most interesting things of that time I have ever read :)
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So it confirms the Marriage to Elizabeth Hall I would say.
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Well Christine that is one of the most interesting things of that time I have ever read :)
Couldn't agree more - amazing! Wish there was something like this for the places my ancestors were. ;D
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Thank you very much for this information and I agree that was very interesting reading. Can anyone confirm for me if the parents of Robert Ramsay are Ralph Ramsay born 1726 Rothbury and Elizabeth Hall born 1726.
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Did John Ramsay marry?
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Have found the Baptism 23 Sept 1780 for John Ramsay it states parents Robert Ramsay and Elisabeth Henderson. Sorry if I am confusing you. Elizabeth's Baptism just shows parents Robert Ramsey and Elisabeth Ramsey
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John's baptism clearly states mother is Elisabeth HENDERSON, and says his parents were of Hartburn, so I'm not sure that the Robert who married Elizabeth HALL in 1781 is necessarily the right Robert. ???
I'm curious as to how you know the parents were born 1754 - do you have any other info about them?
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Did John Ramsay marry?
As solidrock said in reply #1, if the 1841 census given is the correct John, then a possible marriage is with Rachael DONKIN in 1808.
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Another child to the marriage of John and Rachel is probably Elizabeth Ramsey, born 16 Aug 1812 and bap 01 Nov 1812 at Newburn. (Father: John RAMSEY, Mother: Rachel DUNCAN)
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John's baptism clearly states mother is Elisabeth HENDERSON, and says his parents were of Hartburn, so I'm not sure that the Robert who married Elizabeth HALL in 1781 is necessarily the right Robert. ???
I'm curious as to how you know the parents were born 1754 - do you have any other info about them?
Going by Robert's Baptism showing father as Ralph, Robert's brother John born 1753 - father Ralph and his sister Mary born 1756 showing father as Ralph
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Sorry everyone, but I am totally confused here.
I can not find a marriage for Robert and Elisabeth Henderson, but can find a marriage for Robert & Elisabeth Hall in Nov 1781 Rothbury. I went into my tree at Ancestry and typed in Elisabeth Hall as Robert's wife and the hints that came up show other trees as Elizabeth Henderson as Roberts wife. The baptism hints for the children showed surname Henderson.
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Sounds like a really good example of why not to trust other people's trees! Always best I think to start with information you are sure about and work back from there. I'm assuming you're researching John RAMSAY? What information do you have about him, are you sure it is the one baptized at Rothbury in 1780? Or is it Robert you are searching?
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Researching John Ramsay Baptised Sept 1780 to parents Robert Ramsay, Elis Henderson States name of John Ramsay or Henderson on baptism.
Not sure if his mother is Elizabeth Hall or Henderson
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This is my opinion;
John 1780 was illegitimate, Father Robert Ramsey, Mother Elizabeth Henderson.
It does not appear that they married.
From all evidence I can see Robert married Elizabeth HALL.
Then we have from the Rothbury Census;
Robert RAMSEY aged sixty-two is nephew to HALL who left the sum of one hundred and twenty pounds to the school at Caiston.
If I am right he is a Nephew by Marriage to Elizabeth Hall.
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Quote;
Sorry everyone, but I am totally confused here.
I can not find a marriage for Robert and Elisabeth Henderson, but can find a marriage for Robert & Elisabeth Hall in Nov 1781 Rothbury. I went into my tree at Ancestry and typed in Elisabeth Hall as Robert's wife and the hints that came up show other trees as Elizabeth Henderson as Roberts wife. The baptism hints for the children showed surname Henderson.
Does anyone have a actual date for the Marriage of Robert to Elizabeth Henderson?
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Ok I may be wrong;
Marriage;
29 April 1752, Rothbury, Northumberland
Ralph RAMSAY to Elizabeth HALL
Still cant find a Marriage for Robert to Elizabeth HENDERSON
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There may never have been a marriage - John was illegitimate, perhaps they didn't bother :)
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I know logic doesn't play much part in this hobby of ours ;D but this is how I see it.
John's parents were Robert Ramsay and Elizabeth Henderson (not, perhaps never, married)
Robert's parents were Ralph Ramsay and Elizabeth Hall - the marriage date would fit with this and make Robert the actual nephew of Hall rather than one by marriage.
The 1816 census doesn't mention the name of Robert's wife - he could have gone on to marry someone totally different who then produced six daughters. It doesn't mention a son.
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I'm still not convinced that the Robert who married Eizabeth HALL at Rothbury in 1781 is the father of John. There are a number of other possibilities:
Robert RAMSAY bap 19 Nov 1751 at Bedlington (father Robert RAMSAY, mother Jane TWISELL). Bedlington is about the same distance from Hartburn as Rothbury.
Robert RAMSAY bap 23 Sep 1745 at Rothbury (father Thomas RAMSAY)
Robert RAMSAY bap 23 March 1748 at Mitford (father John RAMSAY). Mitford looks even closer to Hartburn.
This is why I was wondering what evidence coola2 had for the birth date of the parents? Was it just from an Ancestry hint, or is there some actual evidence?
Added: I haven't followed any of these further than looking for births yet, but I think it's worth trying to find what happened to them - even if just to discount them. ;)
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I went to Familysearch and found the Christening. Shows child John Ramsay or Henderson, Christened 23rd Sept 1780 Rothbury. Parents Robt Ramsay - Elis. Henderson.
Elizabeth Henderson Christened 31st Dec 1754 Felton. Father - John Henderson.
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There are quite a number of Elizabeth HENDERSON's baptised around Rothbury and Hartburn in suitable timeframes to have given birth to John, not just the one at Felton.
I know tracing family earlier than when registration began in 1837 is difficult, but I think this is what makes it really interesting (and frustrating!).
We might need to use a process of elimination to find the right parents, or look for other evidence like a will or other mentions in parish records (I see a Roger HENDERSON (pauper) of Green Leighton buried 31 Jan 1775 at Elsdon, for example - is he related to Elizabeth?)
https://archive.org/details/registersbaptis00goog
I'm also interested in the William HENDERSON mentioned in the 1841 census that solidrock found.
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There are quite a number of Elizabeth HENDERSON's baptised around Rothbury and Hartburn in suitable timeframes to have given birth to John, not just the one at Felton.
I know tracing family earlier than when registration began in 1837 is difficult, but I think this is what makes it really interesting (and frustrating!).
We might need to use a process of elimination to find the right parents, or look for other evidence like a will or other mentions in parish records (I see a Roger HENDERSON (pauper) of Green Leighton buried 31 Jan 1775 at Elsdon, for example - is he related to Elizabeth?)
https://archive.org/details/registersbaptis00goog
I'm also interested in the William HENDERSON mentioned in the 1841 census that solidrock found.
1861 Census Walbottle - William Henderson 52 years Coal Miner Unmarried. Lodger Head Margret Crozer