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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) Lookup Requests => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => England => Completed Yorkshire (East Riding & York) Requests => Topic started by: Mercian7 on Tuesday 16 May 17 10:36 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to find out information about Ann, the wife and subsequent widow of Robert William Stockton of Hull. I think that having been recorded as a widow in the 1861 census in Hull and in Sculcoates in the 1871 census, she may have married Alfred Clayton in 1878. However there is only the General Registry Index record and no church record. Has anyone come across the church record of this marriage? I ask because I do not know her maiden name and the marriage record would record this and her status as a widow at the time of the marriage.
Her former husband Robert William Stockton was a soldier in the 63rd Regiment but apart from two worldwide army index records in 1841 & 1851 I can trace nothing of his record, marriage to ann or the birth of his son also named Robert William Stockton ( a person of this name born in 1849 is of another family ) born around 1850-55.
If anyone could help I would be most grateful.
many thanks
John
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Is the son Robert William Stockton the one married to an Ann with 4 children in 1881 - a brick layer born Hull 1853?
If so, could he be the one registered as William Stockton born Hull Dec quarter 1854 Hull. Volume 09D page 159? His mother's maiden name was Wolsham.
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Dear John,
According to Yorkshire BMD website the 1878 marriage took place at "Hull Register Offices or Registrar Attended". If it was the Register Office the only way to find out the details would be to order a copy of the certificate I'm afraid.
Pinetree
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Many thanks to you both,
I have decided to order the marriage cert as, Pinetree, you suggested as this will not only verify her maiden name but also confirm, or not, whether the William Stockton birth groom suggested is also correct.
John
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Hi
Don't know if this helps Robert William Stockton dob 1853 He Married Ann Renshaw Hawksworth 14th August 1871 at St Johns Church in Hull. This is my Great Grandfather.
if this is the one I have more info.
Regards Brian
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What did the marriage certificate reveal?
Annette
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Hi Annette
Marriage Certificate 14th August 1871 St John Church Hull
Robert William Stockton Age 21 of 3 Carlton Place South Street Hull,
Father Robert William Stockton Soldier 63rd Regiment ( Deceased )
Ann Renshaw Hawksworth Age 21 of 65 West Street Hull
Father Peter Hawksworth Fisherman
Witness Benjamin Young & looks like someone ether Catley or Batley
Brian
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Did you manage to get back any further with RW's parents Robert and Ann?
There seems to be only one candidate for Robert - he was away with his regiment in both 1841 and 1851 so doesn't appear on a proper census with age/birthplace.
As to Ann, she appears to have 'married' twice although no record of either!! First to an Edward Parkin with whom she had a son Charles bp.15/4/1844 Hull and then to Robert Stockton with whom she had Robert William ca.1852/3 Hull. Sadly, not only is there no trace of a marriage to either man, neither of her 2 sons seem to have had their births registered so can't even get Ann's maiden name from the new GRO index.
Annette
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Possible for Ann Stockton and son Charles Parkin.
1851 census 6 Witherwick Yard, Spencer Street Hull
Mary Lydeman 75, head born Leeds
Ann "Stockdale" 22, daughter Married born Hull
Mary Postlethwaite grand daughter 11 born Hull poss 16
Charles Parkin grandson age 2 born Hull listed as a scholar so I think it should be a 6 not a 2 for age.
GRO new index of births
Charles Parkin Lideman registered Hull 1844 M Quarter Volume 22 page 440
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Robert William Stockdale was registered 1852 Hull, Vol 09d page 169 mother maiden name Sideman,
s/b Lideman.
A copy of the certificate should verify fathers name.
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1841 Census Spencer Square Hull
Mary Liddeman 60
John Liddeman 20
William Liddeman 13 possible death 1846
Hannah Perthwart 30 s/b Postlethwaite
Mary Perthwart 6 s/b Postlethwaite
Thomas Postlethwaite married Hannah Liddeman 30 October 1829 Sculcoates York.
Transcription only on ancestry.
William Lideman married Mary French 8 October 1799 Holy Trinity Hull, transcription only
possible for son John, parents William and Mary
Born 12 September 1819 Independent Church Holborn Street Hull, bapt 24 August 1824 Bowling Alley Lane, Presbyterian or Unitarian Church.
Daughter Ann Lideman born 14 November 1823 Holborn Street Independent Church, bapt with John at Bowling Alley Lane Church 24 August 1824.
Holy Trinity Hull
Martha Lideman daughter of William born 1812 buried 20 July 1813
Martha Lideman daughter of William buried 28 September 1818
Sarah Ann Lideman daughter of William buried 6 December 1822
William Lidyman buried 28 November 1838 probably Mary' husband and Ann' father.
This would make Ann "Stockdale" nee Liddeman age 27 in 1851 not 22
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Freebmd
Ann Lideman married Robert Stockdale December Quarter 1850 vol 22 page 415 Hull registration
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Hi Annette
I can't find his father Robert William 1830 ether, as for his mother Sarah Ann Butler ? I have only got this from Public Member Trees in Ancestry. The only thing I have found is this.
Name: Robert Stockton
Service Date: 1854-1855
Service Place: Crimea
Campaign or Service: Crimean War
Regiment or Unit Name: 63rd Regiment of Foot
Regimental Number: ??5
You have said it seems Robert was away with the Regiment 1841-1851 in 1841 he would have only been 11years old.
Will have to look into it further, his he connected to your family at all.
Brian
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Brian, no I am not connected to the family (just one of the many on Rootschat that help others when they can).
If you have a good look at the tree you refer to on Ancestry it's completely 'up the pole'.
First, they have 'your' Robert William Stockton born per census ca.1852/3 as the one who's birth was reg'd Sept.qtr.1849 - a) clearly no checks have been done as that child was bp.26/8/1849 St.Stephen, Hull son of a William Stockton and wife Rosanna whose maiden name was Frankish. A further check would have shown that this child soon after birth as their death is recorded in the same quarter/year - indeed the child buried on 29/8/1849.
As amondg has discovered, for some reason there was a change of surname from Stockdale to Stockton hence not finding your Robert Williams birth before - he was reg'd as previously stated in Dec.qtr.1852 Hull as Stockdale not Stockton but not baptised under either surname! Why the change in surname between 1852 and 1861 from Stockdale to Stockton I have no idea.
Robert Stockdale full age Potter (that's what it looks like) son of Robert Stockdale, bricklayer married Ann Lideman full age, dau. of William Lideman, labourer - witnesses John Lideman and Mary Postlethwaite - on 25/11/1850 St Stephen, Kingston upon Hull.
Four months later on 1851 census no trace of Robert senior but as amondg has posted his wife Ann is shown as Stockdale living with her widowed mother Mary, Mary Postlethwaite 16 (presumably the witness to Ann's marriage) and her illegitimate son Charles Parkin 8 (not 2). However, as previously suspected and now confirmed Ann Lideman had never been married to a Parkin - son Charles' birth reg'd as Charles Parkin Lideman in Mar.qtr.1844 and how I don't know but he was baptised as Charles Parkin 15/4/1844 Holy Trinity, Hull son of Edward Parkin (shipwright) and Ann as if he was born from their lawful union (which he wasn't). I suspect he was actually born late 1843 as his age on census nearly always ends with '8'. (Said Charles Parkin marries an Annie Hall in 1868 and states his father as Edward Parkin, shipwright (deceased). I think Edward Parkin died in 1849 so presumably he and Ann were together until then (without benefit of clergy). The following year she marries (quite rightly) Robert Stockdale as spinster Ann Lideman.
Ann Lideman born 14/11/1823 and baptised as previously detailed by amondg, dau. of William and Mary. Her 'partner' Edward Parkin b.1821 was the son of a Barbara Parkin, widow, who married a Richard Lambert in 1831. In 1861 Census Charles Parkin is with his paternal grandmother Barbara Lambert and in 1871 - now married to Annie - with his mother Ann Stockton and half brother Robert.
Back to Robert Stockdale later Stockton. At his marriage to Ann Lideman his father is shown as Robert Stockdale, bricklayer and there is such a person living with wife Isabella in Hull in 1841 and 1851. Robert Stockdale, bricklayer, widower married Isabella Good, widow, 22/11/1824 Drypool, Yorkshire. They do not appear to have had any children together so son Robert Stockdale/Stockton was presumably a son from Robert's first marriage. However, I don't know who his first wife was - one would assume that Robert, father of your Robert William b.1852 was bc.1820 and although I've looked at possible Robert Stockdale baptisms with a father named Robert none of them have been a bricklayer (farmer, stone mason and tanner) so don't know where exactly he was born, when, or the name of his mother.
Can you confirm that it definitely states 63rd Regiment, soldier on RW's marriage certificate as occupation of his deceased father and not just soldier?
The details I gave previously were for a Robert Stockton who was in the 63rd Regiment of Foot service no. 1115 who on FindMyPast's British Army Worldwide Indexes 1841 in Moulmein (Burma?), and in 1851 Ashton under Lyne and Limerick (Ireland) as you'd mentioned this regiment.
However, should we now be looking for a Robert Stockdale in military records??
Annette
Added - always checkout Ancestry Public Trees - they are submitted just from members such as you or I and never accept without checking that what they say is true. They so often aren't!
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Annette
Thank you and Amondg So much for all the info. On the marriage certificate It just says
Soldier 63rd Regt (Deceased )
Hope this help's
Brian
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Due to the name change from Stockdale to Stockton, Robert Stockton of the 63 Regiment is a red herring.
Robert Stockdale whose father is Robert a bricklayer is the correct person.
Robert Stockdale age 71 in 1851 was born Beverly Yorkshire and his second wife Isabella age 62 was born "Deal" Yorkshire.
There is a Robert Stockdale baptized St John and St Martin Beverly 25 March 1780 son of William.
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Thanks again you both have made me think again before I take things for granted.
Brian