RootsChat.Com
Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Topic started by: alistquin on Thursday 18 May 17 18:36 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me if there are any online records of German internees on the IoM during both world wars.
Alistair
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Sorry, I've no experience of researching internees, but have found a couple of explanatory websites, both of which state only a few records exist. The first being the national archives and the other being a Jewish one
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/internees/
http://www.ajr.org.uk/index.cfm/section.journal/issue.Mar08/article=1031
and here's the FHS Isle of Man site's description:
http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/famhist/genealgy/intern.htm
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Thanks Rena. ;D
Alistair
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The International Red Cross have a list of both military and civilian internees/prisoners of war. Here is the link to start the simple surname search, which will take you to a further page where you need to choose nationality, etc. Unfortunately, I don't know whether there's a simple name list or any additional information about the individuals.
https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/
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Hello Alistair,
You probably already know this but there are many photographs of internees - a few named - on the MNH iMuseum site.
http://imuseum.im/search/all/search/?tab=all&view=&term=internee&sort=&size=20&images= (http://imuseum.im/search/all/search/?tab=all&view=&term=internee&sort=&size=20&images=)
Paul
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Thank you Paul and Rena. Very helpful information. ;D ;D
Alistair
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Apparently there are no official records kept on the Isle of Man.
Those records will be at places such as TNA.
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there are various Manx records but these are based on auxiliary sources rather than the official records now mostly lost or destroyed -
eg there are local police records for most female WW2 internees -
the Manx Museum has over the last few years been building up a list of names taken from such records.
The museum also has an extensive collection of photos of WW1 internees at Douglas and Knockaloe camps -
some of these are now online as part of www.imuseum.im
The museum also has a collection of diaries and other material relating to the Manx camps
Like many other record offices any requests should be as specific as possible stating what you already know and what information you are seeking
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Frances_mnb and KGarrad,
Thank you both for your help. ;D ;D
Alistair
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Hi Alistair. the Knockaloe camp archive also have a facebook page https://www.facebook.com/knockaloeinternmentcampiom/
They are a great help. What's the names of the individuals you are seeking?
Cheers
Maria
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Hi 'amberdog', thanks for that. I've had a look at the IoM Museum site that an earlier reply suggested and found one possible name I was looking for - a Johann Kuss.
Several members of the Kuss family were internees during both WWI and WWII. They had been in business in Hull, Newcastle and Tamworth since the 1850s and various members of the family were constantly going back and forward to a town called Furtwangen in the Black Forest.
Some stayed long-term and others eventually returned to Germany, but we don't know for certain which members of the family were on the wrong side of the Channel on each occasion when war broke out.
Alistair
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Hi Alistair
We now have around 40,000 Germans and Austrians on the database for WW1, including three Germans and one Austrian by the name of Kuss. There are actually two separate johann's. We are pulling a huge amount of information together over the next year before it all goes "live" in March 2019. We should be delighted to start working with you to get information together about your family and this will then be completed after the database goes live.
If you would like to please contact us on info@knockaloe.im, we should also love to hear more about your family's experiences.
(and many thanks Maria)
Kind regards
Alison
Knockaloe.im Registered Charity in the Isle of Man
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Hi Alison,
Thanks for the message. I'll put together a few known facts and drop you an email.
Alistair
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Look forward to hearing from you in due course :)
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Hi Alistair
A book published recently, 2022, unexpectedly contains a rollcall of men confirmed to have been interned at Hutchinson Camp, Isle of Man.
The book is "The Island of Extraordinary Captives" by Simon Parkins (Sceptre 2022, ISBN 9781529347197) and is, well, an extraordinary story that many will find has a resonance with the situation today, those escaping harm and warm being themselves interned. Whilst the book itself deals with mainly Jewish internees, from Germany and Austria, the surprising benefit to family historians is the rollcall from just one of the Isle of Man camps, Hutchinson. The relevant pages in my edition (see above) are pages 329 to 387. Data include the internee's name, date of birth, profession, release date, and notes relating to other events in the internee's life. Very, very useful.
There is also a discussion on and list of sources, pp. 389 to 397.
Kind regards
Peter
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The usual focus seems to be German POWs but from time to time I come across mention of a much wider range of prisoners including British citizens e.g. British political prisoners, conscientious objectors, agitators, scientists. Also Jewish refugees were often sent there. Over the years informal Information may have come from British soldiers posted as prison guards - who knows ?
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knockaloe.im
On looking at a recent post here, I notice that back in 2018 I offered to send you some information, but I have no memory of this so don't know whether I sent you the information. Are you able to tell me or is that too far back?
Alistair
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In my data base for Knockaloe I have a Johann Kuss - in 1st Red Cross record age 39 born Schonenbach + noted with UK address 49 Gordon Road Strood - he was given Knockaloe camp # 12849 and released 23 Sept 1919 - ie at very end of the camp's life which indicates he was successful in his appeal not to be deported (see my internment pages on www.manxnotebook.com) - he probably arrived at Knockaloe on 22/23 July 1915 and was in camp 3 compound 2 probably initially hut 2a or 2b as these seemed to be allocated in sequence, he would appear to be in the 3rd tranche of arrivals to this camp which opened early July 1915 - he would be one of a party of some 300 transferred from camps in England as more internees were being concentrated in the two IoM camps.
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Hi Frances_mnb,
Many thanks for that information. :)
Alistair
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does the information fit in with what you know about a Johann Kuss - as you can see from my web site I've researched all the accounts I can find in the public domain - do you have access to any letters emanating from Knockaloe (or any other camp - as it would appear from his PoWIB number (see my site for info re this) that he was interned before the end of 1914 - possibly one of the London camps).
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Frances, if you PM me an email address, I can send you everything I sent to .The Knockaloe Charitable Trust., which expands on what is here.
Alistair
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need to correct his departure date from Knockaloe - it was August not Sept (I misread my database) - the ICRC card gives some additional information from which it appears he was interned probably by early December but was released following the Kitchener directive that released most who could be vouched for by employers etc but was reinterned following the sinking of the Lusitania in May 1915, he was briefly held in Handforth (near Manchester) before being transferred to Knockaloe where he remained until late August 1919
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I'm sure you have seen these, but just in case the following articles are about your Johann Kuss:
Birmingham Daily Post 10 March 1915 -- page 4
Tamworth Herald 13 March 1915 -- page 8
Tamworth Herald 12 June 1915 -- page 5
There are mentions of his wife, brother-in-law, etc. as well. If these are new to you, and you cannot locate them, let me know!
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would love to see these - My interest in is the Manx connection + especially in terms of WW1 the life in Knockaloe, the site of which I can see from my window and also the Douglas camp - I understood from a previous researcher that no camp-related material seems to have survived in the family.
However as you can see from my site www.manxnotebook.com I've collected the various stories found in the UK and IoM national archives but haven't so far searched local papers other than the Manx.
Please eiother PM me or via my web site contact.
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bbart,
Thanks for that - I already have the newspapers you refer to.
Frances_mnb,
I didn't send them to you as they refer to matters unrelated to IoM, but I'll look them out and email them to you.
Alistair