RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: brigidmac on Thursday 18 May 17 22:47 BST (UK)
-
Maria Lea nee Smith was a dressmaker looking after baby Henrietta in Strafford Street Birkenhead UK in 1881
I've just read in family notes that after the death of her husband Henry James Lea Dec 1879
Her eldest child Lizzie H Lea b3/11/1877 was sent to relatives in Halifax UK until the age of 7 when she was brought back to help with her sister. step siblings and the children
Of mariah with new husband Abiah Jones
Lizzie (Elizabeth Helen )is on 1891 and 1901 census with this Birkenhead family and with her mother in 1911
I would like to find her in 1881 ....but I don't know which relatives were in Halifax
I've also spent a long time looking for a marriage with Joseph Moffat b 1862 with whom she had 3 children but there is also a note saying that on his death in 1926 his other family claimed the house ....! Which sounds as if they never married .
Fresh eyes appreciated on this .thanks
-
Hi
Have you checked this 1881 entry
13 St. James Street, Halifax
Sarah Elizth. Carter, b. 1831 Halifax, head, unmarried
Rachel Carter, b. 1862 Halifax, niece, unmarried
Lizzie LEE, b. 1878 Liverpool, visitor
RG11, Pc 4406, Fol 63, Pg 14
-
Thanks jools .i.ll look at that one
I've not come across Carter's yet
-
Yes she.s down as a visitor age 3 born Liverpool so it could be her .
Sarah Carter is down as unmarried....I don't know what the connection was if it is the right Lizzie
-
I think my family records must be wrong as James Henry Lea is down as born 1862 which is surely too young for him to have married Maria Smith in 1877 ...!
# his birth was 1854 someone had written it wrong
-
Is this his death?
Birkenhead 1879 December quarter vol 8a pg 344
James Henry Lea 25 yrs born about 1854
-
Just been checking on ancestry ...it takes me ages
So James Henry Lea was a reasonable age to be married after all
Notes say Lizzie was married to Joseph Moffat but tho they had 3 children I don't think he was widowed or divorced from his first wife Elizabeth Rule
In 1901 he is living with his parents and his 4 children noted as married at. 113 Conway St Birkenhead
In 1911 still married ( not divorced or widowed )with his two younger children "
-
Lizzie Lea had Grace Moffat in 1913 followed by Joan m Moffat 1916 and John Lea Moffat 1918
But the family story is that they had to leave family home in 1862 when Joseph died
Joseph Moffat was a journeyman ship painter
He died from septecimia from a cut on his finger
His children from first marriage were Ann Jane. Moffat B 1885
Thomas Lancelot b1886
Joseph b1890
Lily b 1895
Maybe one of them moved into Conway St with their family
-
I have notes that Lizzie Lea later married Edward Whitaker a male nurse but i don't know what year or how old either of them were
Would she have used her assumed married name of Moffat or Lea ?
I have a death date of 31/03/1961
but am not finding it under various spellings of Whitaker .....!
She lived in Wallesey in the 1950's
-
Is this her?
Wallasey June 1961 vol 10a pg 577
Elizabeth H Whitaker 83 yrs born abt 1878
-
That looks right Heywood ..well done
-
I found a London marriage 1929 for Edward C Whitaker and Elizabeth Moffat ....which fits too
-
Reading between the lines, I would say Lizzie was never married to Joseph.
Annie
-
That's the conclusion I reached too ...I don't know what happened to Joseph's wife Elizabeth she is only on one census with him .and the first 3 children 1891
-
I put a birth search in for Mofatt children born Birkenhead between 1912 and 1918 just using mothers name Elizabeth Lea ...all 3 came up
When I tried using just father's name Joseph Mofatt none came up so that is quite conclusive .
-
1911 eldest son Thomas Lancelot Moffat is living nearby at his father Joseph at 116 Claughton road Birkenhead
With his wife and baby .
* ()Widowed/#
Sorry married Joseph Moffat and youngest two children are at 113 Conway road
His widowed mother and sister are listed in a separate page of 1911 census but address is also 113 Conway road
Why isn't this on same page ?
-
I thought Joseph declared himself as married in 1911.
Perhaps they were listed separately because they were two separate households in the same house.
-
Yes Joseph declared himself as married in 1901 and 1911. Oops my mistake will modify
Though he may have been divorced or widowed
It's a pity the years married and number of children isn't filled in for him
Joseph and children Ann Jane b1885 Joe B 1890 and lily b1894 are with him in 1901 in same shared house as his parents and some siblings
Then 1911 shared house his mother Ann Moffat married sis Mary Ann Hilton and her Statton grandsons are in the other half.
-
I.ve been looking for his wife as Elizabeth nee Rule but I got that information from a clan Moffat site so it may be wrong .back to the drawing board I think
I've been looking for school records for his children but nothing so far ...is there a Cheshire site where records are easier to find ??
* RULE is correct for Elizabeth mmn b 1861Birkrnhead
-
I found two more children born to Joseph Moffat and Elizabeth nee Rule with help of chatbox whizzkid "sky"
Frances Grace 1889 and John Moffat 1893
They are not with their father and siblings in 1911
# there is a death for France grace Moffat in 1890
And a John Moffat dies 1893
So that doesn't help finding Mrs Elizabeth Moffat
-
Also that means that their first son John b1884 must have died before 1893 for them to name another child John
I.d like to know who lived at 103 Conway Street Birkenhead Cheshire UK
after 1911 before joseph.s death in 1924 and after ..then
Did the Moffat own the house ? ....could Elizabeth Rule Moffat have come back and claimed it
Was it his siblings or his children that ". Put out on the street" Lizzie Lea and her illegitimate Moffat children
-
I found a Elizabeth Moffat in Preston Lancashire baptising baby Annie in sept 1896.
No father given
profession box is down as " Rover " ..
Unlikely to be ours but I thought it was interesting
-
There were 2 Thomas and selina Rule couples
with children Mary selina John and Thomas
I.ve unravelled them
Elizabeth is with family in 1871 in Toxteth Park Liverpool
Thomas RULE aged 38. born Cornwall Hayle
Lelina 38. Born Chester Tattenhall
Mary. 15 born Birkenhead
John 12 (17 ?)
Elizabeth. 9
selina. 6
Thomas. 3
children born birkenhead
Until selina and John births in Liverpool
-
Elizabeth not with her family in 1881 aged 19
Maybe
With these people 16 Waugh Street Manchester
Fred Hindley head rubber spreader
Elizabeth Hindley ( wife ).?maker
Sarah Hope. India rubber. Lodger
Elizabeth Rule 19 elastic band
-
Summary and recent findings
Elizabeth Rule b 1862 Birkenhead
and Lizzie Lea 1877 Birkenhead
both had children with Joseph Moffat 1861-1924 journeyman ship painter
joseph couldnt marry lizzie according to family because he was still married to Elizabeth
but children grace 1913 john 1915an joan 1918 registration gives surname as moffat mmn lea
i cant actually find 1883 marriage for elizabet rule and joseph but her children were also registered as Moffat mmn Rule
1871 Eliza lived with her parents Thomas and Selina RULE and siblings in toxteth park liverpool aged 9
1881 she's not with them in Birkenhead
I think she's in Manchester aged 19 working making rubber bands
with Thomas Hindley and his wife
and another lodger also in the rubber indusrty
there is a connection to Manchester ... a photo of her mother Selina Rule was taken there
the Rule Family lived near the Moffats in Birkenhead from 1884 to 1911 most married +died there too
Elizabeth and Joseph children ;
MOFFAT :
john 1884-1886
ann jane 1885-
thomas lancelot 1890- married mary josephine JOHNSON in 1911
joseph 1890- m susanna Dowdle 1910 -
lily 1894
Joseph and Moffat children are in Birkenhead In 1901 and 1911 but no sign of his wife Elizabeth
-
I can't get back to that 1881 census with Elizabeth Rule the elastic band maker 16' waugh at Manchester
Could head of that house be Thomas Hardy not Hindley ? I need to see the original again
The Manchester connection is a photo of her mother selina Richardson Rule from 1840 or 50. Printed in Manchester
Found a 1851 census Selinas mother Mary Richardson as a widowed midwife
-
1881 /3987/125/21
16 Waugh Street
Fred Findley 24 yrs
Elizabeth Findley 19 yrs
Sarah Hope 17 yrs
Elizabeth Moffat 19 yrs
there is no birth place and this lady is unmarried - possibly not your Elizabeth Rule.
-
Thanks Heywood ...
She would have been Rule. If unmarried
I'm sure the transcription I saw said Hindley and the original was very difficult to read.
It's still a possibility .
She must have been somewhere in 1881 !
The 1951 manchester census hard to read. I can't make out the Richardson childrens names and ages and don't trust the transcription
The surname of John .selina . lenorda and Lavina is Richerdson
-
Selina Rule mmn Richardson
Had sisters called Sadonia b1838
And Sabina b Nov 1841
Her father was a pavior in Manchester before he died in Dec 1940
I m going to look for Elizabeth Moffat with any of them in 1901 and 1911
There was also thomas .hannah gilbert and ellen Richardson on the 1841 census
siblings ...quadruplets ! Twin Brothers plus wives .or nephews and neices ???
Have posted on handwriting forum re the daughters' names
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=772157.msg6250847
-
I.m not going to rule out the 1881 rubber band Elizabeth Moffat
She may have pretended to be married at an earlier age
Also the rover who gave birth to Annie Moffat in Preston at 13 Domino Street
and baptised her in 1896
Could that be a workhouse ?
I had a quick look for a Annie Moffat b1896
In 1901 and 1911 but nothing coming up
Not good at looking for deaths
-
i cant actually find 1883 marriage for elizabet rule and joseph but her children were also registered as Moffat mmn Rule
Jun 1883 Liverpool
Furlong Johanna
Moffatt Joseph
Nolan Christopher George
Rule Elizabeth
-
Thanks Millie well done
-
Ps now ruling out the Selina Nee Richardson with exotically named sisters
She is not ElizabethnRULE .s mother
-
Is this the right death for Elizabeth Moffatt
Jun 1933 Birkenhead
Age 71 born abt 1862
-
Just to rule this one out - besides the fact Elizabeth should be Rule in 1881 and the elastic band girl is Moffat I think she is Christina Elizabeth Moffat so not yours.
-
Also the rover who gave birth to Annie Moffat in Preston at 13 Domino Street
and baptised her in 1896
Maybe she died - Annie Moffatt death Dec 1896 Preston age 0
-
Thanks Millie ..eliminations always help avoid fruitless searches
I don't know when and where Elizabeth Moffat died she disappeared
According to family story
Joseph Moffat could not marry Lizzie Lea mother of his next three children 1913-1918 because he was still married and
when he died 1924 they had to leave the family home because the first family' " threw them out "
But this could easily be the legitimate children ...legally if he.d made no will would they have to prove his wife had died before they could inherit ?
-
I've been in touch with a descendant of Joseph Moffat s first family
So here's some new infomration
His grandfather Joe Moffatt junior married Susannah Dowdell
"curiously according to what is written alongside the 1911 census Susannah Dowdell lived at 113 Conway St. although the census was taken at 20 Cecil Road Prenton where she is listed as a domestic servant. So perhaps that's where she met my grandfather."
Lizzie Lea lived 10 mins walking distance away in 1911 with her mother and JONES half siblings
She had daughter Grace in 1912 so it seems likely that Joseph s children.Joe aged 21 lily aged 16 would have known about this second family .
-
. Addressez for Lizzie Lea and her Moffat children
Census's, 1891 115 Gladstone St.
, 1901 Market St.
1911 238 Cleveland St.
All around the same area within 10 minutes walk of
113 Conway St.
1911 census eldest Moffat children from first marriage recorded at 113 Conway St.
Susannah Dowdell future wife of eldest son Jo recorded as living there too on a separate census .
I know the 2nd family felt deprived of a house to live in .
-
I've been told
Lowther Street where the Dowdell family lived in 1891 was next along from Gladstone street
The RULE family also lived very near in Price St
It would be good to walkaline these streets to see how close all these familes were
-
Having researched other relatives who disappeared ..I wonder what are rhe chances she has been hidden away in an asylum somewhere
Some asylum residents were there for a long time .