RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Jagoman on Sunday 21 May 17 09:31 BST (UK)
-
Hi
Can anybody help with the location of Touroucourt which is where Sydney died on 3 May 1918 from wounds. His Mothers grave has the location as Touroucourt and the Hertford Mecury 17 Aug 1918 has the location as Field Hospital Touroucourt. He is buried at Hangard Communal Cemetery Extension. I have been unable to find the location of Touroucourt.
Many thanks
Jagoman
-
His service record is at the National Archives - perhaps some clues there ?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C696927
-
The Department de la Somme Picarde, France takes care of the graves.
Research Battle of the Somme, or London Regiment WWI diaries for the answer.
-
Could this be your man?? I just put his full name into the search box on the link below.
Sydney Cecil Geering
From
http://www.gravestonephotos.com/search/search.php
Search results in forename order
number forenames surname birth age death relationship cemetery location area country grave id
1
Sydney Cecil
Geering
1891 27 1918 son of Julia Hannah Geering Corporation Hereford Herefordshire England 181197
Hope so!! 👍
-
Hi jaybelnz
Yes that's the one with his details recorded on his Mothers Grave.
Jagoman
-
Ahh! Oops - I thought that meant they were both in the same grave.
However, I've had another fossick around and found some more detail about him on the link below, not a burial, although maybe you could contact the owner!
http://w-f-t.co.uk/tree/getperson.php?personID=I41570&tree=wft
;D. Now I'll bet you'll tell me that you're the owner of that particular entry! ;D ;D
Try this one! Your work again I suspect!
Notes From the Commonwealth War Graves Commission web site:
(http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=253453)
Casualty Details
Name: GEERING, SYDNEY CECIL
Initials: S C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers)
Unit Text: 4th Bn.
Age: 27
Date of Death: 03/05/1918
Additional information: Husband of Elizabeth B. Geering, of 18, Currie Street, Hertford.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: III. AA. 4.
Cemetery: HANGARD COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
(http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=24801&mode=1)
Modified to add - are you sure you're looking for Touroucourt??
http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/toutencourt-communal-cemetery.html
I'd better head off to bed p, before I give you a headache! ;D ;D
-
Touroucourt does not seem to appear in the list of hospitals or CCSs and the details of burials at Hangard Cemetery does not include the name among the list of places from which remains were relocated. I haven't been able to locate it on a map so I wonder if it has been garbled at the time? (The area is littered with villages ending in...court!)
Although he is buried in Hangard, Toutencourt as perhaps a temporary location of a medical facility makes a lot of sense. According to the war diary the battalion was in the Tilloy/Dainville area south and west of Arras in April/May although I have not yet found a record of him being wounded and Toutencourt is about the right distance rearwards for a medical facility.
It may be that someone may be able to pinpoint a hospital in the 56 Division area that adds up?
I would support ShaunJ's suggestion that his record may hold a better clue.
maxD
-
I've always found Military Records to be really useful! I don't know how much they cost in other countries, but here in NZ, if you request a copy of a single military service file within a 12-month period the copy will be provided free of charge.
If you request copies of more than one military service file within a 12-month period the first file will be provided free but the second and subsequent files will be charged at the rate of $28 per file.
After I got my first one, re my Dad, I was so amazed how much info was in it, I ordered another one recently to find out where my Uncle had been when he was taken as a prisoner of war, and where he had been "Imprisoned". Still waiting for that one to arrive.
But my point is, loads of info in them.
-
Hi jaybelnz & maxD
I think you have found the location with Toutencourt. The newspaper and his Mother's Grave must have the wrong spelling, miss type or lost in translation. The location is about right just outside Amiens. I will do little more research with his service record.
Many thanks
Jagoman
-
The 56 Div. RAMC were around Arras including their Field Hospital.
I can't see your man on the 4/Batt. Officer casualty lists Jan-May 1918.
This makes me think that he may have been transferred or seconded to another Batt. prior to his death.
-
Jim
I had come to the same conclusion. I have looked at the 56 Div ADMS diary for the period which is very good on locations, nothing to be found there.
maxD
-
His record may make a mention.
As an aside the Ronville caves sound interesting.
-
Did you read the memo on the caves at Appendix ii to May 1918 in the ADMS diary - "Some observations by a Regimental MO". That particular diary is a mine of information on the casualty handing system.
maxD
-
Yes I read the MO's report.
Not best pleased was he.
-
Hi Jagoman
Did you find any more on Sydney Cecil Geering?
He is my Great Uncle, I went to the Hangard Cemetery in 2016. I arrived as the sun came up & written on the head stone it reads. "At the breaking of dawn, we will meet again" My Austin 7 race car is named after Henry, his brother, my Grandad. At dawn I brought the brothers back together.
A post said Julia is buried in Hereford, that would surprise me as they lived in Hertford, Hertfordshire. I have no record of where she is buried.
What is your interest?
I have been trying to find out more as I return to France this year to race & would like to visit a battlefield or location he would have been to.
Paul
-
Something I missed earlier when I posted some info was that he was initially buried in the German cemetery at Herleville and brought in to Hangard after the armistice. The cemetery is in the village - Google Herleville cimitiere allemande, there are a number of images.
Herleville is some distance south of Arras which would accord perhaps with jim1's thought that he was attached to another unit at the time of his death.
The location may help further. A man from 2 Rifle Brigade who died on 29 April was also buried initially by the Germans at Herleville
MaxD
-
It may be worth mentioning again that as ShaunJ said his service records are available & MaxD & I agreed that they were required as it appeared (to us anyway) that he may have been attached elsewhere.
-
I thought that a likely scenario is that he was taken prisoner and died before he was shipped to the east to a POW camp and properly registered.
There is Red Cross POW card for him with "missing 24 4 1918" . It has the indications that his next of kin enquired about him to the Red Cross and that as he had not been registered as a POW, they sent a negative reply - the process is described here: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/Content/help/3step-E15-01.pdf
That of course is not what proves he was a prisoner, rather it is the fact that he was buried by the Germans.
While I don't find him with 2 RB, that battalion were fighting in the area immediately to the west of Herleville so an attachment to an 8 Div unit looks a possibility.
MaxD
-
Hi MaxD
I received your personal message, thank you & yes I have seen the posts. (I could not see how to reply to you personally.)
I am not very techy so I am not keen on signing up on websites where I have to pay, there's to many dodgy sights to know which is genuine. Best security is not to sign up, I also get tired of the junk email I keep receiving.
The info I have gained has helped place the locations so maybe I can look to visit them in August.
I will pass on the information to my brother who may look deeper now we have the new info.
Cheers.
Paul
-
Delighted, travel safe.
MaxD