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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Sutherland => Topic started by: cerchier on Sunday 21 May 17 21:55 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am looking for information on Isabella Levy born I believe Monroe. She came to Canada in the early 1900's and settled near Windsor Ontario. If anyone has any information on her family and early life it would be greatly appreciated.
Chip
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Well, you don't give us much information as to age, but scotlandspeople only has two women named Isabella Munro born in the parish of Bonar between 1855 and 1895, one born in 1856 and one in 1863. Is either of these a possibility?
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How do you know she was born Bonar but have no other details?
Annie
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Thank you for the speedy replies,
Looking at what I have right now, I must apologize for I have the names mixed up. She was born Ross on Ardins farm outside Bonar. She was born Dec 1891, I don't know if she married but had a child named Munroe and later married a James Dunlop McDonald Levy and had more children. They came to Canada in the1920's and she died Dec 1974.
What I would like to know if possible who was Monroe and what happened to him? Also how would one go about finding out if there are any living relatives in the area? This is not so much for me, but my grandchildren, for this is on my son in laws side.
Any way thanks for any help you can give and sorry for the mix up.
Chip
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Do you have her parents names to find her on census' please?
Marriage;
LEVY JAMES DUNLOP ROSS ISABELLA
1917
046/1 6
6
Bonar
The marriage which is downloadable from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (for a small fee via credits)
will tell you if she was previously married.
Do you have a name for the child Monroe/Monro/Munro/Munroe & a year of birth approx?
Annie
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What I would like to know if possible who was Monroe and what happened to him?
I don't think anyone can help much here without any info. to go on?
How do you know of this child?
How do you know his surname was Monroe yet you don't give his forename?
Did he go to Canada?
What info. do you have about him?
Annie
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how would one go about finding out if there are any living relatives in the area?
Once you provide parents names there may be siblings on census' who stayed here, married & had families?
Annie
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You need to tread carefully when tracing living descendants, especially in relation to possible illegitimacy or unknown of marriages. They may not be aware of this, they may not be interested in making contact with you, and you could be met with denial or animosity. It is possible that you will not be welcomed with open arms as a long lost relative. :)
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I don't see a marriage for Isabella to a Monroe with variants.
Could this be them & if so the Monro children would have been step-siblings?
1901
Rhenamain House, Creich, Bonar, Sutherland
James Ross Head Married 46 1855 Farmer born Kincardine, Ross & Cromarty
Mary Ross Wife Married 45
William Munro Step Son 15
Hughina Munro Step Daughter 12
Isabella Ross Daughter 9
John Ross Son 8
Donald Ross Son 4
Annie
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Could be the marriage for James & Mary?
ROSS JAMES MCLEAN MARY
1889
046/1 1
1
Bonar
Annie
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Let's assume, for the moment, a child born out of wedlock, father's name Munro, mother's name Ross, in Bonar. If the mother was born in 1891 and married in 1917 then the feasible dates for such a birth are perhaps 1907-1917, though probably slightly narrower. There are thirteen births with the surname "Ross" and four Munros between 1908 and 1916. To narrow it down a gender and a first name would assist, if you have them.
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Could this be all the children for Isabella & James?
LEVY MARY
1916
046/1 16
Bonar
LEVY ROBINA PENUEL (I've never seen this name in Scotland before)
1918
046/1 18
Bonar
LEVY JOHN ROSS
1920
046/1 15
Bonar
LEVY AGNES
1922
046/1 12
Bonar
LEVY HAMISH (= James)
1924
046/1 26
Bonar
LEVY CATHERINE MACPH (middle name shortened on index)
1927
046/1 14
Bonar
----------------------------------
EDIT (This one unlikely if they emigrated in the 1920's)
LEVY FLORENCE ANNE R (as above, shortened)
1932
046/1 13
Bonar
Annie
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There are thirteen births with the surname "Ross" and four Munros between 1908 and 1916. To narrow it down a gender and a first name would assist, if you have them.
To narrow them down further, if any were illegitimate, the Ref. No. on the Index would match on both surnames Ross & Munro (whichever variant).
Edit, the above would only be if the father was present at registration otherwise the child would only have her mother's surname of Ross.
Annie
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Possibly James’ family?
1901
Miller's House, Durness, Sutherland, Scotland
All surname Levy
Andrew Head, Married 47 (1854) Meal Miller born Haddingtonshire (East Lothian)
Barbara Wife 42 (1859) Born Durness, Sutherland
Children all b Durness
Robina Dau 18
David 16
James (1) 14
John 11
Hector 10
George 9
Barbara 7
Christina 6
Agnes 4
Penuel 3
Charles 2
James (2) 0
Annie
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Marriage for parents (just hope it's the correct family) :-\
LEVY ANDREW DUNLOP BARBARA
1879
048/ 1
1
Durness
Annie
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Deaths for mother & father;
LEVY BARBARA (Dunlop)
78 (1854)
1937
046/1 17
Bonar
LEVY ANDREW
68 (1854)
1922
046/1 6
Bonar
Death for James (2) aged 0 on 1901 census
LEVY JAMES MCDONALD
78
1979 (1901)
181/ 15
Bonar and Kincardine
Son of Isabella & James? (died same year he was born)
LEVY HAMISH
0
1924
046/1 27
Bonar
Daughter of Isabella & James?
Robina Penuel Levy
http://necrologie.genealogiequebec.com/avis-de-deces/594371-LEVY-Robina-Penuel
Annie
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Children of Andrew & Barbara listed here;
http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/scottishwargraves-ftopic65.html
Lots of FH here;
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k53/
Annie
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From the Valuation Rolls, looks like all those families worked for;
HIS GRACE THE DUKE AND EARL OF SUTHERLAND
Here;
http://www.cottages-and-castles.co.uk/self-catering/balnakeil-house-1574/
Annie
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Will on scotlandspeople;
Levy Andrew
8/5/1922
otherwise Levi, Landholder, Inish, Parish of Creich, County of Sutherland, d. 27/01/1922 at Sutherland, testate.
Dornoch Sheriff Court
SC9/36/13
Annie
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Thanks Annie for your help.
I was trying to do this by memory and wasn't too successful. But you seemed to find out quite a lot.
Isabella Ross married James D.M. Levy after she gave birth to a Williamina "Minnie" Munroe. I am wondering about this girl's father and what happened. She is in my grandkids line through my son-in-law. Isabella and James had 7 children, 4 in Scotland and 3 in Ontario Canada. They came to Canada in the 1920's for the first child James was born in 1926.
Their children are, with the information I have; Williamina 1909-1993, Rubina 1918-?, John 1920-2012, Agnes 1922-2001, Hamish 1924-24, James 1926-2011, Kenneth 1931-1988 and ?.
Any info on Williamina's birth father would be greatly appreciated. I am very sorry about the confusion.
Chip
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The birth for Williamina would imply her father did not sign the register.
ROSS WILLIAMINA MUNR
1909
046/1 3
Bonar
My 1st thought is, step-brother is named William Munro i.e. could he be the father ???
Annie
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Illegitimacy is hard to prove but there may be an addition/correction on the entry from RCE (Register of Corrected Entries) which would name the father but there's no guarantee before downloading the birth cert. unfortunately.
Are you unsure whether Williamina travelled to Canada or do you know she remained in Scotland?
"Their children are, with the information I have; Williamina 1909-1993, Rubina 1918-?, John 1920-2012, Agnes 1922-2001, Hamish 1924-24, James 1926-2011, Kenneth 1931-1988 and ?"
The above can be confirmed from SP (ordering facility online) which I posted earlier with index numbers etc.
ROBINA PENUEL 1918
JOHN ROSS 1920
AGNES 1922
HAMISH (= James) 1924
Kenneth should/would have been born Canada if they emigrated in the 1920's?
He doesn't show in Scotland.
Could the '?' on your list be Mary b 1916 which I posted earlier?
Annie
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I can confirm that Williamina's mother did indeed register her birth i.e. no father named & no RCE :(
Annie
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From a tree online (worth checking the other facts) although her surname Ross is missing here ???
Williamina Munro
Born in Bonar Bridge, Scotland on 21 Mar 1909 to James Dunlop Levy and Isabelle Ross.
Williamina married Earl Leon Allen (Born to Albert Edward Allen and Annie Margaret Whales) and had 4 children.
She passed away on 1 Oct 1993 in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.
Annie
Added There's 'an' Earl Leon Allen on the WW11 Navy Muster Rolls (1938 - 1949) on A*try.
Added Checked out the above, not the same person who married Williamina (Minnie)
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=80546524&ref=acom
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Details from A*try although I can't view details;
Earl Leon Allen married Minnie Munroe
Essex, Ontario, Canada
Annie
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Earl Leon Allen
d Sep 24 1999
b 1907
Spouse Williamina ""Minnie""
Parents Albert & Annie Allen
Children (I have deleted as may be living)
G/children 14
G G/children Many
Cemetery Greenlawn, Essex /Windsor, Ontario, Canada
The obit is in the Windsor Star naming children but I have removed them as possible living people can't be named here.
Annie
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Rosinish: There are three Penuels interred in Balkakeil, Durness:
Penuel Grant (d. 1868, aged 7)
Penuel Grant (d. 1897, aged 29)
Penuel MacPherson (d. 1902, aged 70)
Penuel MacPherson was the wife of the Reverend William Grant (1825-1900), Minister of Durness.
The younger two were two of their four children.
I would observe that Bonar Bridge and Durness are 75 miles apart, which was still a great distance in the early 20th century
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djct,
I did see all the deaths for everyone named Penuel on SP in whole of Scotland.
Sorry, but I'm not understanding what you're meaning regarding Bonar & Durness?
Annie
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Rosinish; Movement from Durness down to south Sutherland was fairly rare in the 19th/early 20th century, as it was a long journey for no likely economic benefit.
However, if he was the miller at Balnakeil that might well be a decently paying job for an "incomer". The mill itself still exists but it's too dangerous to enter now as the wood has rotted and the roof is caving in. The lade hasn't been cleared of weeds and aquatic plants for decades so the water barely flows. Having lived and worked in Durness Andrew then moves south with his children to Bonar. Such a move was slightly unusual, though not implausible.
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Annie,
I don't know about a step brother named William, but it does raise the question. Could she be named after her father named William? Is it possible that he grew up around Bonar and possibly ran away or died somehow? If he is from the area would there be records of him, birth or death, some sort or roll?
I will ask my son-in-law about this, to see if his mother remembers anything about her Grandmother. If he comes up with something I'll post it.
Again thanks for your help, it is appreciated.
Chip
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Annie,
I don't know about a step brother named William, but it does raise the question. Could she be named after her father named William?
Sorry, I have been reading through what I have found to put it all together as I'm losing track & I have made an error ::)
I said step-brother but should have been half brother
So, that William is out of the equation as father!
Annie
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djct,
With you now ::)
I have been trying to follow that direct line as best I can with no certificates but of course it's a case of is this them/could it be them.
Yes the distance is quite something but I have also considered the fact that Andrew Levy (from the 1901 census) is listed as having been born Haddingtonshire (East Lothian) but his wife was born Durness.
Looking at the names & dates they could be the correct family although they may not be?
I'm unsure if OP (Chip) wants to follow that line or even the Ross line?
It would certainly need certs. to move back i.e. my finds are only possibles as with any blind research.
However, it looks an interesting lot :D
Annie
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dcjt, Annie,
just talked to my son-in-law and he says they believe Williamina's father Munroe died from a building/construction accident.
I was wondering, because of the size of the area could James Levy have known Munroe, friends or related, cousins as an example.
No matter what James Levy seems on the surface to be a good man to have married Isabella Ross and taken in her daughter. For all accounts he treated her like his own daughter.
Thanks again for all your help.
Chip
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Okay, that's a fitting story but whether true or not is different.
Many things were said regarding absent fathers not like more recent times.
Do you know if Williamina had any memory of him, how old she was when he died, anything significant at all?
It's a good possibility something like that would be in the local paper but the only timeline we can go by is between the conception of Williamina & a short time prior to her mother's marriage.
Annie
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If I may digress slightly, the Dunlop family were the occupiers of Balnakeil House from the late 18th century till the Elliots took over. they employed the shepherds and the miller (the mill itself was 100 yards from the house). as a result of this "Dunlop" became a very common middle name amongst employees. If born in Durness in 1854, Barbara Dunlop was not batised in the Free Church - her name's not in the records.
Incidentally, migration north to work was not unusual (most of the shephers were from the Lothians, Ayrshire and Northumberland), but outward migration tended to be across the Atlantic or round the Cape of Good Hope and on to the Antipodes.
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If born in Durness in 1854, Barbara Dunlop was not batised in the Free Church - her name's not in the records.
I'm unsure where you find Barbara born 1854?
From 1901 I listed;
Barbara Wife 42 (1859) Born Durness, Sutherland
I believe her parents to be Robert Dunlop & Janet Campbell?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ4S-N5P
Annie
Added I see it now from her age given on death to which I added the year to correspond with that info. for easy counting & a ref. for later rather than anyone having to use a calculator.
As we all know, any info. given by any informant on any death is as good as their knowledge & may not be fact/precise.
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Robert Dunlop and Janet Campbell lived in Durine, Durness. They were married on the old traditional Scottish date of 31st December 1850, had a son Anthony baptised 20th February 1852 and a son James baptised 11th April 1854.
Robert was born in either 1816 or 1821 - there are two Robert Dunlops in the Durness records. By the same reckoning, Janet was born in 1828 or 1829.
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djct,
I have stopped researching that line as they are not the direct line for Williamina.
Williamina's direct line would be who I believe to be Isabella's parents;
James Ross & Mary McLean married 1889 Bonar (Indexed 046/1 1 1);
but of course it would need the marriage of Isabella & James Dunlop MacDonald Levy to prove that theory.
As for Williamina's father that would be guess work but when I have time I will have a look at possibles although waiting on feedback as to when the father possibly died to narrow things down.
Annie
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If my thoughts are correct, I believe Isabella Ross' mother Mary MacLean was previously married to a Hugh Munro?
Marriage?
MCLEAN MARY MUNRO HUGH
1884
046/1 2
2
Bonar
Death
MACLEAN MARY
77
1930
046/1 3
Bonar
MUNRO MARY
77
1930
046/1 3
Bonar
ROSS MARY
77
1930
046/1 3
Bonar
Annie
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Annie, djct,
I do not know nor does my son-in-law know when Isabella married James Levy. No one knows if Isabella was a single mother for a period of time, this I find hard to believe that she would be. My belief is that Williamina's father died before her birth and that James took his place, for whatever reason. Of course I can not prove this, it is just something I think would or could happen. If this was what happened, then he would have disappeared prior to Dec. 1909 and was, again I can't prove, known in the area. Do you think this makes any sense.
I will try to gather more info from my son-in-laws sisters and hopefully his mother. Until then thanks again.
Chip
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Annie,
I don't know about Hugh Munro, but yes Mary Ross (McLean) 1853-1930 was Isabella's mother. Mary Ross's parents were Hugh McLean and Janet McLean (Ross). It is all very interesting. I'm not sure if I want to dig too deep into this.
Thanks again.
Chip
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Hi Chip,
I think you may have missed a few of my posts.
I posted Williamina's birth cert. on Reply #22 as well as this, her mother's marriage details below.
Marriage;
LEVY JAMES DUNLOP ROSS ISABELLA
1917
046/1 6
6
Bonar
The marriage which is downloadable from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (for a small fee via credits)
will tell you if she was previously married.
I think I have found who could potentially be Williamina's father who died Nov 1908 & Williamina was born 21 Mar 1909 i.e. the story would fit with her father being deceased prior to her birth although it wasn't an accident.
I need to go out for now but will post my findings later.
Annie
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Hi Annie,
Thank you for the info. I would have sent you a personal email, but not so sure how to do that.
Again, thank you and I will try to figure that out.
Cheers, Chip