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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent => England => Kent Lookup Requests => Topic started by: MattD30 on Wednesday 24 May 17 00:45 BST (UK)
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Hi
Is anyone able to do a look up for a couple of christenings in either Eastwell or Westwell probably between 1630 and 1665?
I am trying to locate the following people
Thomas Brett and Ann Grannett (Grannet, Granet, Granett, or Gravett).
These two people were married in Canterbury by licence in 1679. The entry has been transcribed on Findmypast and appears several times, each time with Ann's surname spelt slightly differently (as above). All other details are the same and the archivist at Canterbury has told me it must be the same person.
The original entry [which can be viewed via Findmypast] reads:
"Tho. Brett & Ann Grannett of Eastwell Mar the 10th December 1679"
I would be interested to know if there is any sign of a Thomas Brett or Ann Grannett (or other spelling) born in either Eastwell or Westwell between about 1640 and 1669.
If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Matt
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Eastwell & Westwell baptism transcripts area available on FindMyPast for the period you require. Have you tried searching with just first names :-\
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Eastwell & Westwell baptism transcripts area available on FindMyPast for the period you require. Have you tried searching with just first names :-\
Hiya
Thanks for that info. I tried Findmypast today looking for both surnames but couldn't find anything that fitted. I must admit that so far I've only checked the Westwell registers as I couldn't find the Eastwell ones on there (I did a search for Eastwell but nothing came up).
I've not tried searching using just the first names yet as that will probably bring up loads of results. Would there be any way of refining it? Would searching with the first name and only the first name of the surname (such as Thomas B or Ann G) help?
Thanks again
Matt
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Hi Matt
Although most of Canterburys See's Parish records are held in the Cathedral vaults it is still the individual parishes property.
Therefore it is down to the individual parishes Parochial Church Council whether these records are allowed to be transcribed.
I know this as a friend if mine is on our local P.C.C and they flatly refuse to have them transcribed.
So Eastwell maybe one of those other parishes that are living in the past and wont allow theirs either.
I believe they are available to view by appointment though.
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According to a transcription there was an Ann Gravet baptised in November 1665 at Westwell but, sadly she was buried the following December. She was the daughter of Thomas.
Thomas also had another daughter and son baptised at Westwell.
There were (slightly later at Westwell) eleven Gravets baptised to Jeremiah and Susan.
Also at Westwell there was also a solitary Gravet baptised to William and Ann in 1670.
Not much help, I am afraid.
Thomas Brett was Widower when he married Ann Gravett; his first wife was Martha Jones who he married on 28 August 1673 (by Licence) at St Margaret, Canterbury. According to another transcription he was said to be aged 28 and a Yeoman of Westwell.
Tony
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Hi Matt
Although most of Canterburys See's Parish records are held in the Cathedral vaults it is still the individual parishes property.
Therefore it is down to the individual parishes Parochial Church Council whether these records are allowed to be transcribed.
I know this as a friend if mine is on our local P.C.C and they flatly refuse to have them transcribed.
So Eastwell maybe one of those other parishes that are living in the past and wont allow theirs either.
I believe they are available to view by appointment though.
Hi
Thanks for that helpful info. Unfortunately I don't live near Eastwell, or in Kent at all, myself so I wouldn't be able to view the records personally at the church. It's a shame I think as Kent in a beautiful county. Thankfully I have seen some transcripts for some Eastwell records online but I think they were for a later period.
Do you think it is worth me writing to the church to see if they can help or check the records?
Interestingly there is an Ann Gravett born in Cornhill, London in 1655 and I have a note from another researcher which has her married to Thomas Brett in Canterbury on the same date. Is it possible that Ann moved from London to Eastwell, possibly with her family as a child? Where would I find settlement records to check this?
Any other ideas would be welcome.
Thanks again
Matt
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According to a transcription there was an Ann Gravet baptised in November 1665 at Westwell but, sadly she was buried the following December. She was the daughter of Thomas.
Thomas also had another daughter and son baptised at Westwell.
There were (slightly later at Westwell) eleven Gravets baptised to Jeremiah and Susan.
Also at Westwell there was also a solitary Gravet baptised to William and Ann in 1670.
Not much help, I am afraid.
Thomas Brett was Widower when he married Ann Gravett; his first wife was Martha Jones who he married on 28 August 1673 (by Licence) at St Margaret, Canterbury. According to another transcription he was said to be aged 28 and a Yeoman of Westwell.
Tony
Hi Tony
Thanks for that info, especially the info about Thomas Brett's first marriage which I was not aware of. Have you seen the licence? If so does it give any name for the Bondsman or possible clue as to the name of his father or other family members?
Interestingly I've seen several various spellings of the name Gravett, including the obvious such as Gravet, Gravat, Grevett, Grevet, Grevatt, Grevate, Gravete, Gravitt, Gravott etc. However I've also seen some other variations (mostly in transcripts or badly written documents) such as Grabbet, Graffett, Gruett and Grauett. Sometimes there is one t in the name, sometime there are two - in some case I've seen records relating to the same person but spelt different each time. However I've not seen Grannett before. Maybe it is worth me checking one of these other spelling variations in Kent.
Many hanks again for this info.
Matt
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Neither Westwell nor Eastwell fall within the Deanery of Canterbury. So, their Parish Records are not to be found on Find my Past; what you may find is the copy of an earlier transcription. Find my Past has copied the filmed version of the Parish registers within the Canterbury Deanery. Four of those Parishes have refused to allow its records to be published and, not all of the remaining have been transcribed!
I have checked the KFHS transcription of Eastwell Parish (from 1538) and there are no Brett or Gravet (ovt) entries to be found. Westwell has only the Children of your Thomas being baptised. The only other record entry is for the baptism of a Susanna Brette to Gregory in 1619. There are Gravets as previously mentioned.
Ann Brett died and was buried 11 December 1707 at Westwell. Thomas appears to have died earlier in 1707 with an Inventory but, Ann left a Will dated and probated in 1707. Could there be any clues therein?
Sorry, again not a lot of help but with elimination may save some time.
Tony
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Neither Westwell nor Eastwell fall within the Deanery of Canterbury. So, their Parish Records are not to be found on Find my Past; what you may find is the copy of an earlier transcription. Find my Past has copied the filmed version of the Parish registers within the Canterbury Deanery. Four of those Parishes have refused to allow its records to be published and, not all of the remaining have been transcribed!
I have checked the KFHS transcription of Eastwell Parish (from 1538) and there are no Brett or Gravet (ovt) entries to be found. Westwell has only the Children of your Thomas being baptised. The only other record entry is for the baptism of a Susanna Brette to Gregory in 1619. There are Gravets as previously mentioned.
Ann Brett died and was buried 11 December 1707 at Westwell. Thomas appears to have died earlier in 1707 with an Inventory but, Ann left a Will dated and probated in 1707. Could there be any clues therein?
Sorry, again not a lot of help but with elimination may save some time.
Tony
Hi Tony
Thanks for the added info. I have a copy of Ann Brett's will in which she names the following people:
"my daughter in law Mary the wife of Thomas Parson/Person of Westwell"
"my eldest daughter Anne the wife of Thomas Baldock of Westwell"
"my youngest daughter Eleanor Brett"
The will is dated 20 November 1707 and interestingly Anne named her youngest daughter Eleanor as her executrix.
It looks like the will was witnesses by Thomas Lurkosh, Judith Haywood, and John Marsh however I am not clear on the first witness.
Sadly the Will of Anne Brett's husband Thomas doesn't appear to have survived, however there is an inventory for him. Again I am hoping that that might provide some clues as well.
There definitely do not appear to be any other records relating to Ann Gravetts being christened in the parish nor any other records for Thomas that I have seen so far.
Matt
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Hi Matt,
Apologies for not answering your query about the Licence for Thomas Brett's first marriage. All I have is Cowper's Transcription; this was taken from the General Register of Licences as held in Canterbury Cathedral. When next in Canterbury I will see what still exists of the Allegation and Bond. 1673 is quite early for both to have survived, if anything still exists it will probably be in Latin so will be difficult to find. I will do my best.
As we have just moved, a trip to the Archives is fairly low down in the list of priorities. Hopefully mid to end of June is on the cards but, that will be the earliest!
Tony
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Hi Tony
I think I may have solved the puzzle here. It looks like both Thomas and Ann were both widowed when they married. I've looked at the marriage licence entry in Cowper's Marriage Licences 1677-1700 (page 47). The entry reads as follows:
"Brett, Thomas of Westwell, husb, widr, and Ann Gravett, [of] same parish, wid. At St George, Canterbury. Dec 10, 1679."
We already know of Thomas Brett's first marriage but I now think I have also found Ann's first marriage.
There is a marriage licence entry in Cowper's Marriage Licences 1661-1676 which gives the following info:
"Gravet (Gravitts), William, of Westwell, husb, widr, and Ann Jerman, [of] same parish, v, 24, whose mother consents, as is testified by her husband, Richard Parsons of Great Chart, husb. At St Mildred, Canterbury. Oct 24, 1664"
This would make Ann born about 1640, which would make her around about the same age as Thomas (he was described as 28 when he married Martha Jones in 1673, so he was probably born c1645).
I haven't found William's death yet but that's my next step. If I can also find Ann's christening and the death of her father then that will help as well.
More details to follow.
Matt
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Hi Matt,
What about this one at Molash,
1641 Apr 4 Ann d/o Isaac & Hester Jarman
Tony
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Hi Matt,
What about this one at Molash,
1641 Apr 4 Ann d/o Isaac & Hester Jarman
Tony
Hi Tony
Could be a possibility. Molash doesn't look far from Westwell or Great Chart either. I'll see if I can find any more children for Isaac and Hester and then find a burial for Issac. If I can find a marriage between Richard Pasons and Hester than it might solve the puzzle.
Many thanks
Matt
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I've not been able to find this christening or records of any children for Isaac and Hester on Familysearch.
Did Ann have any siblings?
Matt
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Hi Matt
1658 Nov 7 Richard Parsons (Husbandman) of Challock and Hester German (Widow) of Molash
Apparently this marriage is also shown at Ashford (same date?) according to the East Kent Marriage Index. The name at Ashford reads Farman according to the EKMI.
Tony
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Hi Matt
1658 Nov 7 Richard Parsons (Husbandman) of Challock and Hester German (Widow) of Molash
Apparently this marriage is also shown at Ashford (same date?) according to the East Kent Marriage Index. The name at Ashford reads Farman according to the EKMI.
Tony
Hi Tony
I think we must be looking into this at the same time lol!. I don't have access to the EKMI myself but I have tracked down Isaac and Hester's marriage in the Canterbury Marriage Licences for 1619-1660. The entry reads as follows:
"Isaac, Jerman, of Molash, tailor, ba. about 48 "at his own government", and Hester Wood of St Margaret's Canterbury, v, about 21, whose parents are dead. At St Margaret's Cant. Thomas Solley, of All Saints, Cant, tailor, bondsman. Dec 30, 1639"
That would certainly tie in with the christening for Ann that you found in Molash. Makes sense to me, what do you think?
Bit of an age gap though isn't it? It's interesting that Isaac isn't described as widower.
Matt
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Hi Tony
I think I've found the evidence which ties all these people together.
I have a copy of the Will of Ann Brett (formerly Gravett, nee Jarman) and after a second reading last week I've found a line which links these people together.
One of the people Ann mentions is her "daughter in law Mary the wife of Thomas Parsons of Westwell"
I wonder if by "daughter in law" she might actually be referring to a cousin or their child. We already know Ann's mother Hester married Richard Parsons after the death of Ann's father Isaac, so could Thomas Parsons be their son? That would make him Ann's half brother though.
It's just a thought and I haven't found any children for Richard and Ann Parsons yet, nor any other children born to Isaac Jarman. However it does show that these families are linked. The fact that Ann mentions Thomas Parsons in her will, as well as her own daughter Ann "the wife of Thomas Baldock", shows there's a connection.
Matt
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Hi Matt,
The explanation may be more simple. My tuppenceworth, Mary Brett was a daughter of Thomas Brett by his first marriage,
Westwell baptism,
1673 Dec 23 Mary d/o Thomas & Martha Brett
Westwell marriage,
1699 Feb 1 Thomas Parsons and Mary Brett
Thus Mary Parsons is a daughter-in-law to Ann Brett!
Daughter-in-Law is commonly used to describe what we know today as a step-daughter.
What thinkest thou,
Tony
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Hi Matt,
The explanation may be more simple. My tuppenceworth, Mary Brett was a daughter of Thomas Brett by his first marriage,
Westwell baptism,
1673 Dec 23 Mary d/o Thomas & Martha Brett
Westwell marriage,
1699 Feb 1 Thomas Parsons and Mary Brett
Thus Mary Parsons is a daughter-in-law to Ann Brett!
Daughter-in-Law is commonly used to describe what we know today as a step-daughter.
What thinkest thou,
Tony
Brilliant I think you're spot on!
From the way the Will is worded it seemed clear that Mary was some kind of close relation such as a cousin or step-daughter. My only reason for the theory I had was that I hadn't found any children born to Thomas Brett and Martha. However what you've said makes perfect sense.
Do you know if Thomas and Martha had any other children at all? Also do you have any info on Thomas Parsons? If he isn't related to Richard Parsons I'd be surprised.
Do you know when Martha died? Obviously she died before 1679 as that is when Thomas married Ann Gravett (nee Jarman), do you think she might have died in childbirth?
Time to update my Brett tree again.
More details to follow later.
Matt
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Hi Matt,
Martha was buried at Westwell as,
1675 Aug 16 Martha Brett - Wife of Thomas
Cannot see any sign of siblings to Ann Brett at Westwell.
Will look at the Parsons tomorrow.
Tony
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Mornin' Matt,
There is this baptism at Westwell, that is quite likely your Thomas Parsons,
1669 Feb 7 Thomas s/o John & Elizabeth Parson(s)
As yet no marriage between John Parsons and an Elizabeth has come to light.
There does not appear to be an easy link between this Thomas and Richard Parsons!
Tony
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Mornin' Matt,
There is this baptism at Westwell, that is quite likely your Thomas Parsons,
1669 Feb 7 Thomas s/o John & Elizabeth Parson(s)
As yet no marriage between John Parsons and an Elizabeth has come to light.
There does not appear to be an easy link between this Thomas and Richard Parsons!
Tony
Hiya
Interesting indeed. I suspect there may well be a link, otherwise why would he be mentioned in the will? It's possible Richard and Thomas were brothers or uncle and nephew I suppose.
Matt