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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Pennines on Thursday 25 May 17 20:38 BST (UK)
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Hello Everyone,
I wonder if anyone can help me please.
Has anybody any idea what the mother's actual given name is on the Latinised version shown on the baptisms below - extracted from Lancs OPC.
There are more later births of children to this couple at St Albans in Blackburn -- with various mysterious spellings. I am showing just a sample of the Ribchester ones.
Baptism: 1 Jun 1799 St Peter and St Paul, Ribchester, Lancashire, England
Maria Railton - filia Roberti Railton & Slythi
Godparents: Johannis Wilson; Catherina Wilson
Register: Baptisms 1783 - 1805, Page 27, Entry 9
Source: Original register at Lancashire Archives
Baptism: 31 May 1801 St Peter and St Paul, Ribchester, Lancashire, England
Johannes Railton - filius Roti. Railton & Sithae
Godparents: Jacobus Rishton; Maria Racliff
Register: Baptisms 1783 - 1805, Page 31, Entry 16
Source: Original register at Lancashire Archives
Baptism: 2 Mar 1803 St Peter and St Paul, Ribchester, Lancashire, England
Maria Railton - filia Robti. Railton & Scythiae
Godparents: Thas. Harwood; Margarta. Racliff
Register: Baptisms 1783 - 1805, Page 34, Entry 6
Source: Original register at Lancashire Archives
Baptism: 2 Jan 1804 St Peter and St Paul, Ribchester, Lancashire, England
Jacobus Railton - filius Robti. Railton & Sythine
Godparents: Josephus Holden; Ellena Rishton
Register: Baptisms 1783 - 1805, Page 36, Entry 3
Source: Original register at Lancashire Archives
Interestingly a son of this couple goes on to name one of HIS sons 'Osyth' Railton. (he dies soon after as 'Osith'.
I can only think of Cynthia for the mother -- but I cannot find a marriage at the moment.
Thank you for any help or suggestions.
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There is marriage on 24th February 1784 in Easby, Yorkshire between Robert Railton and Syth Smith. Both are minors, marrying 'with consent of their respective mothers, their fathers being dead'. Witnesses are Thomas Corry and Elizabeth Smith.
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According to one site which gives meanings of names Sythine is a name. So maybe that one has been entered with the correct spelling
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Robert Railton and Syth Smith.
Apparently Syth was the name of a female saint http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k5d/
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I'd suggest that the variations of names you have quoted are various attempts to Latinise the name Syth and put it in the Genitive case ( i.e. daughter/son of Syth)
You mention a son Osyth, this is mentioned in the link I provided earlier.
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You are absolute stars!
Thank you SO very much for your help -- I really appreciate it. As 'they' say -- everyday is a school day and you learn something new!
I'm thrilled to bits with what you have discovered.
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Baptism: 2 Jan 1804 St Peter and St Paul, Ribchester, Lancashire, England
Jacobus Railton - filius Robti. Railton & Sythine
Godparents: Josephus Holden; Ellena Rishton
Register: Baptisms 1783 - 1805, Page 36, Entry 3
Source: Original register at Lancashire Archives[/i]
It wold be interesting to see the original register for this example. It might perhaps show that the correct name is Sythiae (i.e. of Syth) rather than Sythine
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There is a baptism in the Non Conformist Records for an Osythe Smith Feb 7 1765 Catterick RC - the daughter of Ralph and Elizabeth of Brumpton. A second record gives her first name as Sithe. (May not be your lady but it is the only one I can see).
Number of other Smith baptisms in Catterick RC in this period.
William
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Thank you William.
I have just found the marriage in Easby mentioned by JenB. Very interesting.
If its the same person baptised -- it would make her a minor at her marriage - great possibility. Just a nuisance this family are RC.
In response to 'Sythine' -- rather reminds me of name of a medicine!
(I need a medicine researching this family!!)
many thanks again everyone -- great assistance as usual.
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Just to say that St Peter and St Paul, Ribchester is an RC Church.
William
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There is a 1794 baptism at Brough Hall RC Catterick, Yorkshire, Rebecca Railton, parents Robert and Osyth http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k5i/
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And the actual image states Rebecca Railton daughter of Robert and Osyth Railton of Brumpton ( the same abode as on the baptism of Osyth Smith noted earlier).
William
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I haven't looked at the link yet - BUT at one of the baptisms of a grandchild of Robert Railton - (at St Albans Blackburn -- also RC) --- the godmother is a Rebecca Railton!
(The child being baptised is the brother of the 'Osyth' Railton who I mentioned in an earlier post. (Sadly both these little ones do not survive - although another son does, creating the Railton line I am researching.)
It is definitely looking like this particular father (James Railton) -- is a son of Robert Railton and Syth Smith --- and that the family have moved from Yorkshire - to Ribchester - then to Blackburn.
Luckily James Railton re-married in 1841, so I have already ordered that marriage certificate just to confirm his father's name for sure.
William - you mentioned the Ribchester RC records being amongst the non-conformist dataset on Ancestry. Thankfully St Albans, Blackburn (also RC) -- are in that dataset also. How lucky is that. Normally RC Parish registers are a bit like gold dust.
JenB -- I am about to check the link you have kindly provided. The rate this is going --- you will all have completed this tree for me! So helpful all of you.
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Just to clarify it was the Catterick RC records which I found in the Nonconformist data set (also worth looking at Yorkshire Baptisms on FindMyPast). I established that St Peter and St Paul,Ribchester is an RC Church from Genuki - I have not found any images for this church as yet although presumably when the Catholic records on FindMyPast are extended to include the north of England they should be available.
William
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I note the marriage banns in Easby 29 June, 6 July and 13 July 1756 for Ralph Smith,of this parish and Elizabeth Meynell of the parish of Crathorn - they were married in Crathorn(e) 10 Aug 1755.
Baptism for an Eliz. Meynell 16 Sept 1733 in Crathorne - father George Meynell,farmer.
(Also wonder if the Brumpton mentioned earlier is actually Brompton on Swale which is in the parish of Easby).
William
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hi William -- sorry I misunderstood you regarding the Ribchester/Yorkshire RC records - thank you for putting me straight.
I will keep the very useful nformation you have found to one side for future reference at the moment, as I am still sorting out - (or trying to sort out!), the children of Robert and Osyth (or variant) -- and also trying to find Robert and Osyth's deaths before I go further back.
Robert looks like he might still be alive in 1841 (aged about 75 rounded down) in Blackburn but Osyth must have died. This Robert not born in County, so looks hopeful. Dies, purportedly aged 81 in 1844.
If it's the correct Robert and age at death is right -- he was born about 1763 -- so may have still been 20 when he married Syth Smith as a minor in 1784.
Syth must have died pre July 1837. Again -- huge appreciation for your very helpful sleuthing!
I would have still been struggling with this one had I not posted the query about the unusual name and received so much additional help.
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Out of interest I did a speculative search on the newspaper archive for Railtons in Blackburn and found the following deaths.
Blackburn Standard 2 March 1836 " On the 19th ult,after a long and severe illness,Mrs ? Railton,wife of Mr Robert Railton, sen, machine maker, of the firm of Messrs Robert Railton,Sons and Co.,Union Foundry, Salford.
(Have put a ? against her first name as there is a bend in the paper but the more I have looked at it I think it says Osith).
Preston Chronicle 7 April 1838 " Same day (saturday last) Elizabeth, wife of James Railton, Cleaver Street, Blackburn, aged 24 years.
Preston Chronicle 7 Dec 1844 " Yesterday week in his 82nd year, Mr Robert Railton, engineer, Blackburn".
There are further articles in the Blackburn Standard 11 June 1856 and 8 April 1857 which refer to the inventions of Robert Railton in improving cotton spinning machinery. These articles, and others, would also suggest that the Robert Railton showing in the 1841 and 1851 census born 1787 was his son. (The 1851 census gives his place of birth as Brunton on Swale, Yorkshire - he died 1860 and there are letters of administration for him). I also suspect that there was another son Ralph born in Yorkshire(an account of his death is in the Lancaster Gazette 23 Feb 1828).
There is also a piece in Perry's Bankrupt Gazette regarding the dissolution of a partnership ( a James Railton is referred to) which is worth a look.
If the marriage cert you have sent for does indeed show that Robert Railton was James's father you really do have a most interesting family in terms of our industrial heritage.
William
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I've just taken a look at that 1836 death notice, and I'm pretty sure it says Osith.
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Do you know -- I was pouring through the on line papers last night - I did find lots of articles about Robert Railton (the son) - and Robert Railton senior's death.
This company had a Foundry in Blackburn.
I am actually doing this for a friend - (I'm not a professional - just do them for friends and because I'm obsessed with family history).
The James (son of Robert senior) - and his line is quite tragic. He marries twice - has 3 children with each of his wives and 2 children of each wife then die young. He then dies in 1846.
His son Henry was a surviving child - he and his wife both die quite young - and THEIR daughter - my friend's grandmother was brought up by her mother's parents.
My friend - a chap who LOVES history knew about the Foundry - but I don't think he knows about the Yorkshire connection or about all the sad deaths.
It is an interesting family for sure - there is a Herbert Railton who is on Wikipedia - he MAY be connected sideways - ie descended from a brother of Robert maybe. He was apparantly a famous Illustrator and artist (I'd never heard of him!).
So after I have sorted out Robert - found his siblings - I'll be able to work forwards and find out if this Herbert (I've found him on census records) - is a 'sideways' connection.
Because of all the entries in the newspapers -- do you know if there is anyway of copying just the article please? I was thinking of putting this query on the 'Technical' Board -- as I don't know how to do it and was laboriously copying a couple out last night to type up.
Again -- many thanks for finding Osyth's probable death - I hadn't found that one.
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Afraid that I do not know how to copy just the article. I wish I did as I have loads of full page saved PDFs! There must be a way of doing it as plenty of snippets appear on other threads.Perhaps JenB can ride to the rescue.
If you do find out how to do it please let me know!
William
Ps Re Herbert having had a quick look on Ancestry I think he might be the grandson of Robert (1787- 1860) and therefore the great grandson of Robert and Osyth. One of Herbert's brothers Frederick Michael seems to have gone on the run for embezzlement and so might be worth checking out!
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You could use the Microsoft snipping tool http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k5t/ having snipped the item you want you can then save it, or click on 'edit' to copy it and then paste it into a document. Doing the latter you can paste several snips onto one page.
Search 'snipping tool' on Rootschat and you'll get lots of useful advice :)
In the past I've often done a screen capture (use the 'print screen' key top right on your keyboard), then paste it into a free programme such as Irfanview where you can straighten and crop it to your hearts content.
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Done with the snipping tool :)
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Thanks,Jen! I will give it a go!
William
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And so will I (give it a go) - it has long been a real frustration --but I'll have to see if my one technical brain cell can understand it!
Thank you Jen -- and William yet again.
(William - please let us know if you manage it - I'm not going to tackle it quite yet until I've achieved more with this family, as I don't want to frustrate myself by NOT being able to do it).
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Please believe me when I say that if I can do it anyone can :-X
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Jen -- not necessarily!! You are just being being nice. Yes I will 'grasp the nettle' and have a go (at some point).
Regards
June
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I have indeed managed it! The process is actually straightforward. I will however need to keep practising as my technique for highlighting the area to copy is poor (I have never been that good with the touch pad on my laptop!). I have nonetheless saved a couple of snips from my large batch of PDFs and can see I am going to be busy for a while. (The second one I even managed to enlarge enough to print it off!). So again my thanks to Jen.
Re Frederick Michael Railton he seems to have been caught and given seven years. He was in Portland Prison in 1881.There are some very detailed prison records, including his mugshot, on FindMyPast.
William
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Oh well done William!! The pressure is on me now to follow suit. However you have been so helpful with this query (which actually only started out with an unusual name) -- I am really pleased that you have been rewarded by learning a new skill. That's just brilliant news.
As for you Jen -- helpful Tutor and query answerer!
What can I say? I only hope that some day I can help you as much as you have helped me. In the meantime you have made an old lady very happy! (I'll be even happier when I pluck up the courage and follow your guidance on snipping newspaper articles!)
Regards June
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William -- Just been reading the Prison records for Frederick Michael Railton which you found -- crikey - there's a hefty file.
His photo reveals that he is quite a chubby chap - clearly not gone short of 'vittals' -- then when you reach the physical description column -- I love the fact that the scribe has simply written 'Fat'!
Now try not to find anything else, until I've caught up with what I'm actually doing -- I can't keep up with you!!
Regards June
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It is ok, June! I think I am going to be in snipping mode for a while :).
William
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Yes -- I thought you would be having hours of fun with that! As I said -- hope I follow your lead soon thanks to Jen.
Regards June
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Just to let you know --- I'VE SNIPPED!!
Thank you Jen -- like William - I definitely need more practice though! (Thrilled to bits.)
Regards June
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I'VE SNIPPED!!
:o :D
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Well done, June. (If it is any help I have discovered today that for some reason my manual dexterity seems to be marginally better if I start in the bottom right hand corner!).
William
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Thank you William - I'll try that. At the moment I seem to keep cutting a fraction off down one side (I'm doing Newspaper articles - including the death notice you found for Osyth Railton.)
They are quite tight as the articles are so close together. I can't tell you how pleased I am to have been told about this though - Jen should be pleased with her pupils! I'm pleased with Teacher!
Happy Snipping William and thank you for the tip.
Regards June
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Searching my roots in Ribchester I came across this:
Baptism: 5 Oct 1792 St Peter and St Paul, Ribchester, Lancs.
Richardus Gorner - filius Gulielmi Gorner & Ellenae
God Parents: Thos. Harwood?; Sythy Railton
Register: Baptisms 1783 - 1805, Page 15, Entry 5
Source: Original register at Lancashire Archives
It seems your Sythy Railton was a God mother to my gr gr gr gr gr uncle!
Rosie
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Searching my roots in Ribchester I came across this:
Baptism: 5 Oct 1792 St Peter and St Paul, Ribchester, Lancs.
Richardus Gorner - filius Gulielmi Gorner & Ellenae
God Parents: Thos. Harwood?; Sythy Railton
Register: Baptisms 1783 - 1805, Page 15, Entry 5
Source: Original register at Lancashire Archives
It seems your Sythy Railton was a God mother to my gr gr gr gr gr uncle!
Rosie
The following week she was Godmother to Ellen Carter (name transcribed as Sytha) and to Ann Roberts in 1798 (Sitha), both at Ribchester. Her Godchildren in Blackburn included Thomas Railton 1808 (Sethey) and in consecutive months in 1809 Guilel Raylton (Sythias) and Joan Wilcock (Seythias).
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Thank you Rosie and Maidenstone.
Great finds - and what a coincidence Rosie. I am surprised she had the time!
Osyth had several children of her own -- and to also be god parent so often was quite remarkable.
I don't think I will ever forget the name 'Osyth' and it's variants now - after never having heard of it before.
I notice there are several entries on Lancs On Line Parish Clerk site for Gorners at Ribchester.
I have checked the surviving gravestones list for St Wilfreds (as some of the Railtons - although RC were buried there) -- for your Gorners, but unfortunately can't see a gravestone there for them (nor the Railtons actually).
Rosie - if you have other families buried at Ribchester and want me to check a Gravestone register and transcription - please send me a personal message.
Regards June