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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: softly softly on Friday 02 June 17 11:39 BST (UK)
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Hi, can you please let me know the price of a birth cert 1887 and a web link for. Ordering online
Thanks
John
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Should be here free-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
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Many thanks for the link. I'm either a complete idiot or just stupid. I have what I believe to be Christopher's dob and baptism record bunt wish to order the actual birth certificate ref Dec q 1887 Dublin south 2 597 101061. Am I right in thinking this image is not available online and will cost me over forty euros. One final help please does Dublin south cover St. Andrews area where Christopher says he is from.
Thanks. John
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Should be online- what was Christopher's surname?
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Christopher BYRNE dob 3.12.1887 baptism 11.12.1887. Father is definitely Thomas mother suspected as Mary. Fathers occ was a stoker. Christopher records on army enlistment in 1905 that nok is younger brother Richard and that he(Christopher) is from St. Andrews Dublin
John
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Christopher Byrne born 17 Dec.1887- mother Mary (no father listed)-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=k-470-3-2-015
Only 2 other 1887 Dublin South births so perhaps birthdate is incorrect. Will have another look later.
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Thanks for looking how much do original Cerys cost??
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The images of the register book are free online
a photocopy of the same image can be purchased for €4
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
an full copy of the registered entry costs €20
http://www.welfare.ie/en/pdf/Birth_Application_Form-English-GRO.pdf
They will all have the same information.
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Is this the baptism top of the page
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633502#page/73/mode/1up
Mother Mary Doran
Irish Genealogy transcribe the father as Thomas
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k7i/
Only Christopher I can see with mother Mary Doran has the father as Peter
and dob 6th Dec, not sure the address fits either, father
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02528/1936814.pdf
so either the woman who registered his birth got the information very wrong or he is registered with out a first name (these can be found as unknow as I said on your other thread) or his birth wasn't registered at all.
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Sinann, I personally believe this to be the birth registration of Christopher. Whilst it records his father as Peter who's occ is gas labourer, this ties in with being a stoker which is recorded elsewhere. The address Erne st also ties in well with the baptism record. I know the birth date is out by 3 days but with mothers maiden name Doran am as certain as I can be. Thanks
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If you check the civil birth of Thomas the youngest 3rd May 1891
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02390/1891650.pdf it gives an address at 22 Queens Sq.
(unfortunately it now gives mother as DUNNE but the baptism image for St Andrews is online on Ancestry and that has the same DOB of 3rd May 1891.)
Workhouse records in 1893 show that both Richard and Christopher Byrne (aged 6 and 4) of 22 Queen's Sq entered the workhouse for medical treatment and were to be returned to their mother - a widow.
This looks to be Thomas Byrne (the father) death - same address 22 Queen's Square and he is listed as a stoker.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06064/4728918.pdf
Richard turns up in Workhouse records again in 1903 - a nurse child at a farm in Knockmitten with a Mary Tierney - it is found that he is "working with son on the land" and it is ordered that he be
returned to schooling.
I'd think that Mary has already died as well at this stage - so may be why Christopher gives brother Richard as NOK and not his mother when he joins the army.
All seems to fit - but no clincher !!
Is there an address for Richard in the Army records ?
EDIT - would have made more sense if I'd posted on the related thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=771698.0
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Most likely Mary Tierney at Fox and Geese Commons which is where Knockmitten is situated just off Killeen Rd
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Clondalkin/Fox_and_Geese_Commons/1283139/
Thomas Byrne and Mary Doran ,Erne St
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10803/5939895.pdf
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It's not a good idea to keep starting new topics but if you do need to do so please include link(s) to previous topic(s) to avoid needless duplication and confusion.
Also another topic here-
Christopher Byrne (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=771713.msg6244936;boardseen#new) (Armed Forces)
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Thomas parents Richard and Mary decd in 1887
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633500#page/86/mode/1up
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Hi, can't thank everyone for the info supplied. 2 points, Richard's address on Christopher's enlistment in 1905 is as per 1901 census. With regard to workhouse record for 1893 can this be viewed online at all as this is a real clincher for me. Thanks
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Hi. The workhouse records (South Dublin Union) are online on FindMyPast which is a subscription site, though you can also buy credits or they do free trials as well. If the army records give Richard at the same address as the 1901 census - that's a clincher ! :)
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Many thanks to all for help in this. Any ideas as to where Christopher is in1901 census and what happened to brother Thomas (1891)-??
John
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Sorry no. Christopher was discharged from the workhouse 25 Jan 1897 so possibly to his mother (who seems to have died by 1901) I'd think he was either a nurse child or in an institution by 1901. Also haven't followed up on Thomas but I'd start looking in the deaths. I'll have a look see if he turns up in the workhouse records tomorrow.
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Thank you hasta for your help
What is a nurse child please?
John
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Where did Christopher enlist in the Army?
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1.2.1905 Dublin off to bed now speak tomorrow
John
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I was hoping it wouldn't be Dublin, just an idea I had, didn't work out.
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Nurse child usually refer's to a child being breast fed by a substitute mother but in Richard's case it more likely refer's to a form of adoption or fostering.
I am sure i read somewhere that the foster parents got a small fee for looking after the child possibly till age 16.
It seems strange that the workhouse in 1903 would want Richard age 15 to return to school.
Hasta said ''working with son on the land'' this was obviously Luke Tierney who's marriage cert gives his address as Knockmitten
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1899/10371/5775958.pdf
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Clondalkin/Fox_and_Geese_Commons/1283146/
1911 note the name of the farm labourer Stephen Hall he was a nurse child with Mary Tierney in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Clondalkin/Fox_and_Geese_Common/40954/
Mary Tierney 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Clondalkin/Fox_and_Geese_Commons/1283139/
Mary died 1906
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05572/4564581.pdf
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Hmm i wonder age is a bit off but possible
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Clondalkin/Clondalkin/1282982/
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I think Christopher Byrne was a nurse child with a 'Mrs Anne Loughlin' of Clondalkin in 1901 and she subsequently adopted him - but can't see any trace of her.
Also an interesting note:
"15/5/00 - Patrick McCann of 15 Townsend Street asking to be allowed to visit two nurse children named Christopher & Richard Byrne.
Cannot comply"
Wonder who he was ?
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Richard's godmother was a Mary McCann
31st July 1889 Kerk's Cottages ?
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633503#page/39/mode/1up
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May be the McCann's with both Doran and Byrne sponsors
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k7m/
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Anne Loughlin ? this area is beside the 9th Lock bridge Grand Canal
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Clondalkin/Ballymanaggin/1282928/
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Could be them at 13 Townsend St ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Trinity/Townsend_Street/1311628/
I'll have a look back and see was it 15 or 13
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Anne Loughlin ? this area is beside the 9th Lock bridge Grand Canal
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Clondalkin/Ballymanaggin/1282928/
That must be her !!!!
I just searched under her name and another record has Mrs Anne Laughlin of 9th Lock Clondalkin in 1904, has a nurse child named Patrick Scanlan who is being taken away from her as she 'has absolutely no control over him'
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Ballymanagin Lane beside 9th Lock Bridge
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3292627,-6.397214,3a,75y,61.04h,79.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3VEWQ5W7Ec6D2eo6kMSK_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
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Might be the Doran Family with a Mary born 1870 who's godfather was Patrick McCann
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k7n/
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Hi, please excuse my not having replied to earlier postings sooner. I am touring and doing this all from a mobile. I now believe you have helped me trace Christopher, his father and grandfather Richard. Like most of us going back as far as possible is always interesting and challenging. On that note I know Thomas the father died in 1891 aged 35 giving a birth date c1856/7. I have tried but cannot find a birth for him with parents Richard and Mary, can anyone else spot his birth or even his parents marriage. Thanks again for you're invaluable help.
John