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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: Pandabeary on Saturday 03 June 17 16:31 BST (UK)
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I have a John Woods (coach painter, born 1817 Strumpshaw to Mary and John Woods), who married Mary Ann Stimpson (born 1813 Langley to Barzellai Stimpson and Frances Carver). The earliest child I can find is Georgiana Woods, born 16 April 1841. I cannot find a marriage in GRO indexes so I assume they married very young just before civil registration. Does anyone know how I go about finding a record of their marriage please if it's pre-1837? Or any advice for how to move forward e.g. to discover what Mary Woods' (wife of elder John Woods) maiden name was? Many thanks.
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Pre 1837 you will be reliant on Parish Records.
They are in Lakenham in 1841 with baby Georgiana, so that would be the place to start, then look at surrounding parishes.
But maybe they hadn't married? Or didn't marry till later?
Looking at the birth on the new gro index, there is a Georgiana Woods Apr/May/Jun 1841 Norwich, no mothers maiden name given.
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Marriage
Jul/Aug/Sep 1845
Loddon
Ref 13 303
John Woods and Mary Anne Stimpson
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As you know;
JOHN Woods Baptised 23 March 1817, St Mary, Strumpshaw
Parents JOHN/MARY
Fathers Occp Publican**
Cant find any other Births to them in Strumpshaw.
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Marriage
Jul/Aug/Sep 1845
Loddon
Ref 13 303
John Woods and Mary Anne Stimpson
That's really interesting as I see Loddon includes Langley where Mary Ann was born. I hadn't thought to look that much later after Georgiana's birth. I think I'm going to cross my fingers and order the certificate and hope it's the right couple! Thank you so much!
Am I at a dead end with Mary Woods as I too couldn't find any other baptisms for the couple in Strumpshaw or any marriage record for her and John?
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On FindMyPast there are banns for the marriage 1845 at St. John Timberhill with All Saints & St. Michael at Thorn, Norfolk - this shows that John Woods was a widower (she a spinster) so obviously he was married before and was this possibly to another Mary Ann and that Georgiana was from his first marriage?
Annette
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On FindMyPast there are banns for the marriage 1845 at St. John Timberhill with All Saints & St. Michael at Thorn, Norfolk - this shows that John Woods was a widower (she a spinster) so obviously he was married before and was this possibly to another Mary Ann and that Georgiana was from his first marriage?
Annette
Thanks Annette that's really useful to know. It gets so confusing with such common names but that could be the solution - that there were 2 different Mary Ann's. My ancestor, George Woods, was born later, in 1853 and his mother was definitely Mary Ann Stimpson as per the banns and marriage, which also fits with the 1851 census where the family were in St Michael in Thorn which fits with that marriage in 1845. Perhaps I need to order Georgiana's birth certificate too to be sure as her baptism only says her mother was Mary Ann with no maiden name obviously. I did think it odd that there is a 5 year gap between Georgiana and the next sibling, then there are 4 siblings all born in a 7 year period. That's real food for thought, thank you!
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Believe I've found John Woods first marriage on FreeReg (and FindMyPast):
John Woods of full age Coachmaker (?) residence Heigham son John Woods, gardener
Mary Ann Breeze of full age residence Wymondham father 'blank'.
Married 28/7/1839 Wymondham.
1841 Census - Lakenham, Norfolk (remember ages rounded down in 1841)
John Woods 20 Coachpainter (?)
Mary Woods 20
Georgianna Woods 1mo.
Sarah Breeze 5
Whether Sarah an illeg. dau. of Mary Ann or some other relative (niece perhaps) have no idea.
Mary Ann Woods aged 26 buried 22/6/1842 St. Michael at Thorn, Norwich - believe this is the death of John's first wife.
Annette
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Believe I've found John Woods first marriage on FreeReg (and FindMyPast):
John Woods of full age Coachmaker (?) residence Heigham son John Woods, gardener
Mary Ann Breeze of full age residence Wymondham father 'blank'.
Married 28/7/1839 Wymondham.
1841 Census - Lakenham, Norfolk (remember ages rounded down in 1841)
John Woods 20 Coachpainter (?)
Mary Woods 20
Georgianna Woods 1mo.
Sarah Breeze 5
Whether Sarah an illeg. dau. of Mary Ann or some other relative (niece perhaps) have no idea.
Mary Ann Woods aged 26 buried 22/6/1842 St. Michael at Thorn, Norwich - believe this is the death of John's first wife.
Annette
Thanks so much Annette, I came to the same conclusion last night after re-evaluating everything and going back to the 1841 census and deciding Sarah Breeze/Breese might be my way in but I was worried I'd put 2 and 2 together and come up with about 56 on the basis of very little evidence! I'm guessing coach maker was a mishearing of coach painter - I got the FreeCen transcription initially and then double checked the Find My Past image and although the end of the word's a bit blurred it's definitely an 'm' not a 'p'. Father is a gardener rather than a publican but I guess a change of profession isn't that uncommon? I think I need to get Georgiana's birth certificate to be certain.
Do you have any thoughts on how to get further back from John Woods' parents John and Mary as they seem to be a dead end. Thanks again for all your help!
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I had had a good luck for possible Parents for John and his Siblings yesterday.
I also tried to find a John Woods, Publican, on pages and pages of the 1841 Census!!
No Luck.
But have just found on Anc a MARY Woods age 20 marrying 1839 Sedgefield. Father JOHN, Occp Gardner*
Think I found her Bapt to John/Susan 1819 Syderstone, Father a Labourer.
Also a LUCRETIA Woods Marriage 1842 from memory, Father JOHN, Gardener
Tracing Lucretia Elmer in 1851 she is born c 1812 but her Mother is Elizabeth Woods and living with them.
So a very difficult one ::)
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Anc has the 1st Marriage of John Jnr and his residence is Heigham, Norfolk.
Now 1851 Census in Heigham we have;
John WOOD, 66 (1785), Widower, Gardener, born Blofield
Just a possible.
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Did John remarry again?
1881 we have;
John Woods, 63
Frances Woods, 48
Alice Warden, 16, Neice
1871 Census
John Wadels, 54, Head, Mar, Coach Painter, born Shampshire****
Frances Wadels, 39, Wife, Mar
Frederick Wadels, 24, Son, CarpentEr
George J Wadels, 17, Son, Confectioner
Maria Warsler, 74, Mother in Law
Francek Green, 18, Step/Daug, Silk Weaver
Allice Woaels, 5, Neice
Matilda House, 18, Lodger
Have added correction on Anc.
1861 Census
John Woods, 43, Head, Widr, Coach Painter, born Norwich
Frederick Woods, 14
Mary Ann Woods, 13, Daug, born Norwich****
George Woods, 7
1851 Census
John Woods, 34
Mary Ann Woods, 38
Georgeanna Woods, 9
Frederic John Woods, 4
***Need to track Mary Ann in 1851 Census
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Mary Ann as you probably know is with her Stimpson Grandparents in 1851.
Also nothing on-line that I can see for Johns Marriage to Frances Green 1867 ::)
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Did John remarry again?
1881 we have;
John Woods, 63
Frances Woods, 48
Alice Warden, 16, Neice
1871 Census
John Wadels, 54, Head, Mar, Coach Painter, born Shampshire****
Frances Wadels, 39, Wife, Mar
Frederick Wadels, 24, Son, CarpentEr
George J Wadels, 17, Son, Confectioner
Maria Warsler, 74, Mother in Law
Francek Green, 18, Step/Daug, Silk Weaver
Allice Woaels, 5, Neice
Matilda House, 18, Lodger
Have added correction on Anc.
1861 Census
John Woods, 43, Head, Widr, Coach Painter, born Norwich
Frederick Woods, 14
Mary Ann Woods, 13, Daug, born Norwich****
George Woods, 7
1851 Census
John Woods, 34
Mary Ann Woods, 38
Georgeanna Woods, 9
Frederic John Woods, 4
***Need to track Mary Ann in 1851 Census
Wow thank you so much Trish! Yes John Woods did, he married Frances Green b. abt 1832 who I believe is the daughter of Jonas Warder and Maria Warder nee Earl b1797. I have suddenly realised earlier this morning Frances' daughter Frances M Green living with the Woods family in 1871 age 18 and stepsister to George James Woods age 17 is probably the same Frances Maria Green daughter of Charles Green who then married George James Woods on 22 Apr 1878! Frances M Green was living with her unmarried great aunt Hannah Warder b1787 in 1861 census, who I think was Jonas Warder's sister which fits with this scenario. So it seems my great great grandparents were also step siblings!! This story just gets more and more complicated!
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Mary Ann as you probably know is with her Stimpson Grandparents in 1851.
Also nothing on-line that I can see for Johns Marriage to Frances Green 1867 ::)
Yes I have Mary Ann there, thank you. I'm guessing John and Frances married in 1864 or 1867 but I haven't worked out how to narrow it down yet so I know which certificate to get.
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Here you go Cert details from FreeBMD
Sept 1867, Norwich, 4b 181
John WOODS/Frances GREEN on same page
The little intriques in Families make them more interesting and human!
Trish :)
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Do you have any thoughts on how to get further back from John Woods' parents John and Mary as they seem to be a dead end.
Afraid not - a tricky one. John Woods senior (gardener) died just after the 1851 census - buried 26/5/1851 Heigham aged 65 (per Bishops Transcripts). His wife Mary clearly died between 1841 and 1851 but can't find an obvious burial for her that is online.
Annette