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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: The Man from the East on Monday 05 June 17 11:38 BST (UK)
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Hi!
Sarah Wallworth Brereton, Nee' Smith was my Great,Great, Grandmother. She died on 21 June 1868. Her last know residence was No 2 Hulton Street Moss Side, County Lancashire.
One of her daughter's Kate, with her elder brother Randle immigrated to South Africa shortly after her passing.
She had a brother Dr.Joseph Smith
Kate was my Great,Grandmother & married a Bloemfontein Orange Free State resident, Alfred Barlow previously of Essex. Alfred Barlow was my Gr.Grandfather.
I have done quite a lot of work on the Barlow side of the family in collaboration with some Barlow cousins but have hit a Cul de Sac with GGM. Wallworth Brereton Nee' Smith. I would be interested to collaborate with any living relatives who can help with the research. Thanks for reading this. "The Man from the East''.
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
The GRO website confirms Sarah as age 52 when she died.
So that makes her birth about 1816?
Potential Marriage:
December qtr 1840
Chorlton Registration District vol 20, page 109
Brereton, John
+ and on the same page +
Smith, Sarah Wallworth
Marriage on 2nd July 1840
Fathers names: Randall Brereton and William Smith
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Thank you! Her ''Will''names her son as Randle and not Randall as was her fathers name ? I think this seems to be rather a universal problem with Randy's (Non pun intended.)
Are you one of the family or a very kind wizard?
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I'm not connected with the family.
Just a normal RootsChat member who, like a lot of others, enjoys helping people.
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Hello,
Welcome from me too
Could this be the marriage from www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Sarah W SMITH and John BROUTON in 1840 at Chorlton-on-Medlock, St. Saviour
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Marriage: 2 Jul 1840 St Saviour, Chorlton on Medlock, Lancashire, England
John Brereton - Full, Linen Draper, Bachelor, London Road Manchester
Sarah Wallworth Smith - Full, Spinster, Booth St. Chorlton on Medlock
Groom's Father: Randall Brereton, Agent
Bride's Father: Wm. Smith, Corn Dealer
Witness: Joseph Smith; William Winn; James Smith
Married by Licence by: Edw. Birch
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Randle Brereton
Birth Date: 30 Oct 1841
Baptism Date: 5 Aug 1842
Parish:Manchester, Lancashire, England
Father:John Brereton
Mother:Sarah Wallworth Brereton
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William Smith Brereton
Birth Date:7 Feb 1846
Baptism Date:20 Mar 1846
Parish:Manchester, Lancashire, England
Father:John Brereton
Mother:Sarah Wallworth Brereton
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Sarah's baptism
Name: Sarah Wallworth Smith
Birth Date: 17 Jul 1815
Gender: Female
Event Type: Baptism
Father: William Smith (shopkeeper)
Mother: Mary Smith
Baptism Date: 28 Jul 1815
Baptism Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Denomination: Wesleyan
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There is a death for William Smith Brereton in 1848 aged 2 Chorlton-on-Medlock District
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1861 * transcribed as Burston*
2 Hulton Street
Sarah W Brereton Head 45 Widow
Randal Brereton Son 19 Salesman Muslin
Mary S Brereton Daughter 17
Jane Brereton Daughter 11 Scholar
Ann Brereton Daughter 10 Scholar
Kate Brereton Daughter 8 Scholar
all born Manchester
RG9/2901/55/5
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1841 Census
Booth Street,
Manchester, Lancashire
William SMITH, 60, Corn Merchant
Sarah, 40
+ 2 Servants
Nearby;
James SMITH, 35, Corn Dealer
Anne, 40
John, 15, Apprentice,
next door to James is a Thomas BRERETON age 30 a Shopkeeper
All of the Smiths are NOT born in County
Trish :)
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Definitely the correct William in 1841 Census I am sure as from M/C posted by heatherjulie Sarahs residence was Booth Street at time of Marriage.
Looks like William may have remarried from 1841 Census unless its a Sister.
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One to consider
William Smith
Marriage
23 Jun 1801
Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Spouse's Name: Mary Wallworth
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1841 census transcribed as Brareton
41 London Road
Brareton 30 Grocer and Draper born in county (no first name listed)
Sarah 25 born in county
The address matches that of the marriage in 1840, son Randall born later that year.
New GRO
Randal registered Manchester 1841
Mary S 1843 Manchester
William Smith 1846 Chorlton, died 1848 age 2 registered Chorlton
Jane 1849 Chorlton
Ann 1851 Chorlton
Kate 1853 Manchester
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Other siblings of Sarah Wallworth Smith
Gravel Lane Wesleyan
James born 16 June 1802
Alice born 5 January 1804
Mary born 6 July 1808
Oldham Road formerly Swan Street Wesleyan
Sarah Wallworth 1815 as previously posted
Based on witnesses to marriage there is a Joseph Smith somewhere.
James being her brother and William the father or another brother.
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The full baptisms of those amondg posted. The dates would fit with that 1801 marriage
Baptism: 23 Jan 1804 Gravel Lane Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Salford, Lancashire, England
Alice Smith - Daughter of William Smith & Mary
Born: 5 Jan 1804
Abode: Salford
Baptism: 23 Jan 1804 Gravel Lane Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Salford, Lancashire, England
James Smith - Son of William Smith & Mary
Born: 16 Jun 1802
Abode: SalfordBaptism: 7 Aug 1808 Gravel Lane Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Salford, Lancashire, England
Mary Smith - Daughter of William Smith & Mary
Born: 6 Jul 1808
Abode: Kenedy St. Manr.
Occupation: Shop Keeper
and others?
Name: John Smith
Birth Date: 18 Mar 1817
Gender: Male
Event Type: Baptism
Father: Wm Smith (shopkeeper)
Mother: Mary Smith
Baptism Date: 4 May 1817
Baptism Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Denomination: Wesleyan
Name: Ann Smith
Birth Date: 8 May 1819
Gender: Female
Event Type: Baptism
Father: William Smith (shopkeeper)
Mother: Mary Smith
Baptism Date: 4 Jul 1819
Baptism Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Denomination: Wesleyan
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Hello All!
Phew!
I must say that I am rather overwhelmed by your generosity! Thank you so much..
Okay.. the Brereton is the correct family name as my G.G. Ma Kate bestowed all her children and grandchildren with the Brereton before the Barlow. As an ex census regional officer over here I found spelling mistakes by staff are not uncommon.. so the versions of Brereton and Hulton Street are understandable. Please advise what the real difference between a corn dealer ,a draper and a shopkeeper were in those days extrapolated to our modern understanding of small retailer or wholesalers? What position in a very stratified society such as England at the time would they be classed? I think the clue to the bigger story might lie in Dr. Joseph Smith Sarah's elder brother? I speculate on this purely on the assumption that Joseph was the most successful of the family and thus likely to have had money and his offspring then could well have been given a lift up in life and so on?Certainly this has been the case in my Barlow extended family where my G. G.Grandfather Nathaniel Barlow of Essex was a medical doctor and amongst his grand children and great,great,great grandchildren and some are medical doctors and academics of high achievement. I am fighting a bit of a class war with my two distant Barlow cousins over Kate and her ancestry. She told a whole lot of Porky Pies including that she was born at Brereton Manor in Cheshire!! This of course helped to launch her into Bloemfontein society at the time and she managed to snare a well to do businessman and editor of the only Orange Free State newspaper The Farmer's Friend my G.Grandfather Alfred Barlow. She lived the life of a princess and morphed into what some in the family described as a horrible snob and had a private limo with a chauffeur and valets. :-)). 41 London Road was definitely a place where the young John & Mary Brereton lived at some stage.Thanks again for your amazing help! The man from the East
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Would some kind soul please guide me where to search for Joseph and William Smith who were Sarah Wallworth's siblings?
Hopefully it will lead to contact with their modern descendants?
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Start with census records for Smith's born Salford. Check the marriages who were the witnesses to start the process of elimination, there are a lot of Smith families.
Advantage if they carried on the parents faith you will find them in non conformist churches.
The father William Smith possible burial Irwell Street Wesleyan Methodist Salford 16 March 1854 age 77 address Canal Street. See if he left a WILL, many give the town the beneficiary is living in.
Lancashire Records Office can give you assistance on wills, newspapers and trade directories.
Look for obituary notices in newspapers they often list surviving relatives.
Look for trade directories, they give occupations and addresses.
Lancashire has begun Parish Records on line.
Those who live in Lancashire will know of other websites to try.
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I would hazard a guess at this being Joseph in 1851 living in Penketh
Name Age
Joseph Smith 39 - surgeon and medical practitioner (DR Joseph on Sarah's marriage)
Mary Smith 39 (nee Starkey)
Mary Hannah Smith 10
Mary Davies 22
Samuel Higham 22
Joseph married Mary Starkey 12th August 1835 as a widower
and in 1841 again in penketh
Name Age
Joseph Smith 29 - surgeon
Mary Smith 29
William Smith 5
Thomas Smith 3
Mary Smith 4 Mo
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and in 1861 & 71 & 81 in Warrington
Name Age
Joseph Smith 49 - ex mayor of Warrington
Mary Smith 49
William Smith 24
Mary H Smith 20
Joseph J Smith 5
Sarah Smith 61 - sister in law
John J Starkey 22
Martha Callan 26
Mary Plumpton 20
Name Age
Joseph Smith 59 - magistrate
Mary Smith 59
Name Age
Joseph Smith 69 - JP
Mary Smith 69
Josh.J. Smith 25
Died 5th December 1888 at 27 Wilson Patten Street Warrington Joseph Smith MD JP
the obituary says he was born in Whitely in Cheshire and his wife died approximately 15 years before (which does not fit with the above 1881) but it mentions his elder son Dr Starkey Smith. Joseph had also been a Methodist preacher. The funeral service was held in Bold St Methodist Chapel Warrington and that article says he was born in 1812 in Manchester and leaves 2 sons and a daughter
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http://cprdb.csc.liv.ac.uk/ gives
8th August 1835
Great Budworth
Joseph Smith
Groom's Status BA, residence Prescott
Mary Starkey
Bride's Status SP, residence Great Budworth
the witnesses Jno Starkey,Sarah N Smith, Catherine Shaw and Jas Smith
I wonder if the Sarah N Smith should be Sarah W Smith.
Heather
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Dear all. I am very humbled! I shall now gird my loins ,stride forth and delve into the unknown past of where my old folk lie! Thanks a great deal for this lift up!
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You are welcome. I love a challenge.
Good luck with the rest
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Hi! I am very frustrated!In terms of my search for my illusive Manchester Smith family in parishes and births and deaths I have hit a dead end! No pun intended! :-)) I thought that Dr Joseph Smith, Sarah Wallworth Brereton Nee' Smith's elder brother and co executor of her will would be the correct link but to no avail. Since Sarah and John Brereton had five children and Randal the eldest child and only son and and with Kate the youngest sibling (my G.Grand mother had immigrated to South Africa in 1869 after their mothers passing I have no idea how to trace my other alternative roots of my three remaining G.Grand aunts.. and whom they married etc;Any ideas will be gratefully received.
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You probably have this already
There is a death for
Mary Smith Brereton in 1925 aged 82 Chorlton, Manchester from www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Heather
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1901
248 Moss Lane East, Moss Side
Annie McGrath Head 50 Widow born Manchester
John C Vaughan Son 11 born manchester
Mary S Brereton Sister 57 born Manchester Teacher of Music
Robert G Webb Boarder 25
Claude Grange Boarder 21
RG13/3710/120/4
I can see the family in 1911 and Mary's full name is Mary Smith Brereton
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One to consider
Alice Smith
Marriage Date:24 Sep 1822
Marriage Place:Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Spouse:Isaac Lawton
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Thank you very much heatherjulie!It appears then that she never married and died in the same area Chorlton where many of the family seemed to have been based well in the early 1800> Would you mind advising me how you found this information?
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Hi
I got the information from the census.
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Thank you very much for the added information. Where would we be without the British census system!
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I just checked the will of G.G.Ma Sarah Wallworth Brereton Ne'e and her surviving children were in order of birth
Randle, Mary Smith,Jane,Anne and Kate.
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Birth
John Cecil Vaughan
1889
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Chorlton
GRO gives mother's maiden name as Brereton
Annie VAUGHAN married John MCGRATH in 1897 atChorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registrar Attended
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John Cecil Vaughan
Death Age:42
Occupation:Egg Dealer
Birth Date:abt 1890
Burial Date:5 Sep 1932
Burial Place:Manchester, Greater Manchester, England
Cemetery: Southern Cemetery
Buried with him in Grave number SConsecrated 99 are
Walter Hartley 29/10/1920
Annie Hartley 27/8/1923
Louisa Hartley 10/11/1952
Louisa Maud Davies 20/4/1983
Frances Marie Sheldon 29/7/1988
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HiWith a collective grave as mentioned above does this suggest that they were all cremated to fit in or was it a rather large plot? No pun intended but it is rather macabre? This is not part of my life experience this far. :-))
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Small compared with some!
They were buried.
Did you see my message?
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Hi!Thanks a great deal for your recent support. I hope I have received & read all your messages?? . I believe it is really something to work on now. When the census describes living on private means would that mean that they were well off or on a sort of pension? I still need to find Dr. Joseph Smiths offspring and descendants.
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It used to be the case that one could 'buy' a grave plot for up to 6 persons.
Rather more usual was a plot for 4 persons. (My grandparents are buried with gran's parents; no room for my father!)
It just had to dug to the right size and depth to start with.
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Thank you for the heads up!I guess they had hundreds of years knowledge behind them to calculate how long it would take for corpses to decomposed and thus allow new family permanent visitors some resting space? The bodies are normally buried 6 ft deep ?
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6 feet is the usual minimum for any grave - or at least, it is now!
Multiple, or family graves, have to be dug deeper.
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Ah! I see!
Well the top soil is very deep in England compared to many other parts of the world. Where I live its about 6''!
Labour was no doubt also plentiful and considering the short life span of the larger population the diggers must have been assured of continuous demand?
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Could this be the Dr Starkey Smith referred to in the will of Joseph Smith?
From GRO
Thomas Starkey Smith birth registered 1838 Warrington mother's maiden name Starkey
Possible marriage
Thomas S SMITH and Elizabeth A W CHURCH in 1867 at Dunham Massey, St Margaret Cheshire
1881
14 Bold St, Warrington
Thos.S. Smith Head 42 General Practitioner M.B. Lon F.R.C.S. Eng L.S.A. Lond
Elizth.A.W. Smith Wife 40
Reginald Smith Son 12
Winifred M. Smith Daughter 10
Leonard Smith Son 8
Dorothy M. Smith Daughter 5
Hilda M. Smith Daughter 4
Thos.G. Smith Son
Francis A. Vernon Servant 18 Cook, Domestic Servant
Emma Leach Servant 25 Housemaid
Mary A. Trevornon Widow Servant 39 Nurse
Susanah Eldwell Servant 15 Niurse
RG11/3791/87/33
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Winifred Mary Smith
Baptism 4 Sep 1870
Warrington, Lancaster, England
Father:Thomas Starkey Smith
Mother:Elizabeth Ann Worthington
Gertrude Mary Smith
Christening Date (Original): 15 FEB 1879
Warrington, Lancaster, Cheshire, England
Birth Date:19 Dec 1878
Father's Name: Thomas Starkey Smith
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Ann Worthington
Thomas Gordon Smith
31 Aug 1881
Warrington, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Thomas Sharkey Smith
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Ann Worthington
Leonard Smith
Baptism
13 Apr 1873
Warrington, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Thomas Starkey Smith
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Ann Worthington
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1871
In Altrincham
William Church Head 68
Mary A Church Wife 55
Frederick Church Son 24
Elizabeth W Smith Daughter 30 Surgeon's wife
Reginald Smith Grandson 13
Winefred Smith Grand daughter 1 Year, 1 Month
Hannah Broom Servant 41
Martha Broom Servant 10
Sarah J Eastham Servant 16
RG10/3682/5/3
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Elizabeth Ann Worthington Church
Baptism 5 Nov 1840
Frodsham, Cheshire, England
Father: William Worthington Church
Mother: Mary Amery
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1901
Southport
Elizabeth W Smith Head Widow 60 born Frodsham Living on Own Means
Dorothy M Smith Daughter 23
Hilda S Smith Daughter 24
Millicent M J Bunting Servant 30
Christine Mellor Servant 21
RG/13/3538/5/1
There is a death for a Thomas S Smith in 1897 in Budworth
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1891
Bold Street Warrington
Thomas S Smith Head 52 General Practitioner
Elizabeth A W Smith Wife 50
Reginald Smith Son 22 Student of Medicine
Winifred M Smith Daughter 20
Leonard Smith Son 18 Joiner's Apprentice
Dorothy M Smith Daughter 15
Hilda M Smith Daughter 14
Annie Cliffe Servant 25 Housemaid duties
Maggie Medlicott Servant 23 Cook
Martha Thorley Servant 22 Waitress
RG12/3074/102/17
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Dear heatherjulie, I must say that I am quite overwhelmed at your generosity.
I do not have Dr. Joseph Smiths Last Will & Testament. He was an executor of his sister Sarah Wallworth Brereton's estate. If you could point me to how to retrieve Jo Smiths will it would be a great help. All my attempts this far have been unfruitful. It is possible that Thomas followed in the footsteps of his father as an MD as previously suggested? Sarah had another brother James and her father was a William who predeceased her. Dr. Joseph resided in Wavington? maybe old Joe's will will give a clue to his offspring assuming it is the same good doctor you have suggested?
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Probate
Thomas Starkey Smith
Death Date:4 Sep 1897
Death Place: Warrington, Cheshire, England
Probate Date:15 Sep 1897
Registry: London, England
Thomas Starkey Smith FRS of Warrington died at Grappenhall near Runcorn
Probate to Elizabeth Ann Worthington Smith Widow and George Alexander McDonald Gentleman
Effects £39, 413 3s 7d
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Sorry, I should have said obituary of Joseph Smith, as posted previously bu Lancs Ann not will. I shall see if I can find a will
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Marvelous! Tks so much. Very late here now and our guests are leaving early tomorrow.. so will catch up later then.
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Found the probate
1st February 1889
Joseph Smith MD
The will of Joseph Smith late of 27 Wilson-Patten Street, Warrington in the County of Lancaster MD who died 5th December 1888 at Wilson Patten Street was proved at Liverpool by Thomas Starkey Smith of Linten House Warrington Bachelor of Medicine and Joseph John Smith of 26 North John Street, Liverpool in the said County Solicitor the Sons the Executors.
£1,576 14s
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Sorry for my vanishing act but not been to well lately. I am not sure where to go with all the information you have proved heatherjulie? I would like to try and connect with Joseph Smiths descendants? I am also at a loss to find which ship my G.Gama Kate Brereton sailed to South Africa in 1869/1870? Do you have any idea where I should start looking? She left with her only brother Randal and lived in Durban before departing to Bloemfontein where she married my G.G Pa Alfred in 1874
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Hi
Sorry you haven't been too well.
Thomas Starkey Smith
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Registration Year:1897
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 59
Registration district: Runcorn
Probate
Thomas Starkey Smith of Warrington F.R.S. died 4th September 1897 at Grappenhall near Runcorn, Cheshire. Probateat London 15th September to Elizabeth Ann Worthington Smith widow and George Alexander McDonald Gentleman. Effects £39,413 3s 7d.
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Elizabeth Ann Worthington Smith
Death Date:15 Feb 1922
Death Place:Surrey, England
Probate Date:19 May 1922
Registry:London, England
Elizabeth Ann Worthington Smith of Hemmingfold Pollards Hill Norbury Surrey widow died 15th February 1922. Probate to George Edwin Guest tanner and Thomas Gordon Starkey-Smith MD.
Effects £16806 10s 2d.
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Thomas Gordon Starkey Smith
Death Date:23 Dec 1937
Death Place:Berkshire, England
Probate Date:25 Jan 1938
Registry:Oxford, England
Thomas Gordon Starkey Smith of the Manor House Hungerford Berkshire died 23rd December 1937. Probate Oxford 25th January to Gladys Mary Starkey Smith widow Alfred Raworth engineer and Hilda Mary Starkey Smith Spinster.
Effects £12,348 18s 4d. Resworn £12,510 6s 9d.
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Thomas Gordon Starkey Smith of Hungerford
Age: 30
Spouse:Gladys Mary Raworth 46 Christ Church Road
Spouse Age:24
1 Jun 1911
Parish:Christ Church, Streatham Hill
Borough:Lambeth
Father Name:Thomas Starkey Smith F.R.C.S.
Spouse Father:John Smith Raworth, Consulting Engineer
Witness John Raworth and Henry Weir
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1901
14 Bold Street, Warrington
Reginald Smith 32 born Warrington Surgeon
Amy Smith 29 born Warrington
Thomas R S Smith 1 born Warrington
Kathleen M S Smith 9/12 born Warrington
Ada C Stannard 20 Housemaid
Amy E Lee 16 Nurse
Alice Kinsella 27 Cook
Sarah Whitlow 20 Nurse
RG13/3578/119/39
Amy Litton married Reginald Smith in 1898 at Daresbury All Saints
From GRO
births registered Warrington
1899 Thomas Reginald Starkey Smith mmn Litton
1900 Kathleen Mary Starkey Smith mmn Litton
1902 Geoffrey Starkey Smith mmn Litton There is a death for a Geoffrey S Smith in 1902
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Reginald Smith
[Reginald Starkey-Smith]
Death Date:5 Oct 1943
Death Place:Scarborough
Probate Date:29 Nov 1943
Registry:Bristol
Reginald Starkey Smith 12 Westbourne Grove Scarborough died 5th October 1943. Probate Bristol 29th November to Henry Warry Faulkner Solicitor. Effects £148 17s.
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Kathleen M Starkey-smith
Date of Registration: Sep 1966
Age at Death: 66
Meriden
Warwickshire
Probate
Kathleen Mary Starkey Smith of Denehurst Hotel Church Stretton and care of Lloyds Bank Limited Church Stretton both in Shropshire died 2nd August 1966 at 10 Wooton Green Lane Balsall Common near Coventry.
Probate Liverpool 5th December to Thomas Henry Whitley Bower Solicitor and Patrick Thomas Starkey Smith Meteorologist. Effects £16,588
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Patrick Thomas Starkey-smith
Birth Date:20 Mar 1924
Date of Registration:Jan 1987
Age at Death:62
Registration district:New Forest
Inferred County:Hampshire, New Forest
Probate
Patrick Thomas Starkey Smith 24 Larkspur Gardens Holbury Southampton died 15th January 1987. Probate Winchester Hants 29th February. Not exceeding £70,000
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Patrick T Starkey smith
Birth Date:20 Mar 1924
Age: 35
Port of Departure:Sydney, Australia
Arrival Date:7 Jun 1959
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage:Bombay
Ship Name:Strathmore
Shipping line: P and O Steam Navigation Company Ltd
His address was given as Meteorological Office Hemsby, near Great Yarmouth, Norfolk.
He was travelling with what looks like his wife and 2 children. I will not post their names as they might be living.