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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Rodger on Tuesday 06 June 17 00:56 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find out when John Fraser of Melfort Saskatchewan died and where he was buried. Also his brother William at the same place. They were born in Goderich Ontario, John about 1858 and William about 1860. Their parents were Angus and Catherine Fraser. The 1861 and 1871 census show them in Ontario. The 1906 Saskatchewan census John is in Melfort with his wife Mary and two sons and his mother who is widowed. The 1945 Melfort voters list has a John and his wife and William and his wife. The 1958 Melfort voters list has a John Fraser and his wife. If this is him he would be 100 years old.
I can't find anything else on them or their mother and any more information would be very helpful.
Thanks
Rodger Smith
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Your John and William definitely went to Saskatchewan? The household you refer to in 1906 has a brother David and he doesn't appear on the Ontario census in 1861 or 1871 you referenced.
The 1881 census for Thorold Welland shows an Alexander Upper with wife Catherine born Scotland and also in the household William Fraser and sister Catherine J. This coincides with the children shown in the 1871 except for disappearance of John. The death of Catherine Upper gives a birth of June 22, 1833 Scotland with parents John McFee and Jessie Cumming. Death Mar 10, 1928 11 Asher St. Welland with burial at Fonthill Cemetery. Alexander buried there 1896. Informant was daughter Miss Kate Fraser of same address as mother's.
Just want to be sure we're looking in the right place.
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I don't believe that the 1881 census in Thorlold is the same family. Catherine, the mother, was married to Angus and they lived in Goderich On. The Canadian Geneology Index 1600-1900 has an Angus dying in Goderich in 1871. This would be just before the 1871 census in Goderich which has Catherine widowed. Her son William appears to have married Bridget McKay in Little Current On on Dec. 4, 1889. They are in the 1901 census in Little Current and in the 1911 census in Melfort Saskatchewan.
I believe it is very likely that John, William and their mother all died in Saskatchewan and are probably buried there, as I mentioned the voters list, but I can't find any records of their deaths or burials.
I did find a death for a Bridget Fraser who died in Winnipeg on June 10, 1923.
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The marriage for your William to Bridget shows her father's name to be Bryan, which matches the Bridget buried in a cemetery in Melfort:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cansacem/melfort.html
The later voters lists showing a John and William Fraser for the Melfort area lists them, whether they be yours or not, in Sylvania. There is a bit of history on them in a book here:
John: http://www.ourroots.ca/page.aspx?id=525284&qryID=e35b4243-7483-43ad-b73c-e826a7baa79a
William: http://www.ourroots.ca/page.aspx?id=525285&qryID=e35b4243-7483-43ad-b73c-e826a7baa79a
The dates don't work for arrival year, and John is married to a Laura (possible remarriage?), unless these are children of your John and William? Or another family of Fraser's entirely? ??? They came from the Muskoka area of Ontario, so that is close (I think).
There is also a Melfort book with a few mentions of Fraser, but I couldn't find enough info to say if they are yours or not:
http://www.ourroots.ca/toc.aspx?id=1249&qryID=1d3e609a-e9cb-469c-a4da-028ffbb64825
Edit: The link above for William (and Steve, which is the nickname for his wife Charlotte), if related, must be a child of the ones you are looking for, as I just found William and Charlotte ("Steve") buried in Tisdale, showing them to be born in 1901 http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cansacem/tisdale.html
There is a findagrave for him, which is making it look less likely he fits:
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=141167917&ref=acom
This map might help you to look for cemeteries to search in the surrounding area
http://roadsidethoughts.com/sk/sylvania-cemeteries.htm
I wonder if your Fraser's came out, Bridgette died, then they moved on somewhere else, and the Frasers in the voters lists are a different family?
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Thanks for all your help. I think it is clear that the Frasers in the voters lists are not from my family tree. The Frasers in the book are not likely my family. It mentions that William came from Muskoka with his parents but I feel certain that his father Angus was already dead as his mother is mentioned as a widow in a previous census.
It has only been passed down in our family that John and William lived at Melfort, not that they neccessarily died there. So you may be correct that after Bridget's death they moved on.
But, I wonder, is it not likely that their mother Catherine died at Melfort. She was born around 1835 and she is in the 1906 census in Melfort.
Thanks for all the help and the links and I'll check on the cemeteries around Melfort for Frasers.
Rodger
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I was just looking at the 1911 census for William and Bridget (no children), living in Prince Albert and under occupation, it "might" say merchant. In this case, that previous link for the Melfort book, if you search for Fraser, and look at the results listed under the Wood family, there are mentions of a Wm. Fraser who had a store for a while in Melfort.
http://www.ourroots.ca/toc.aspx?id=1249&qryID=7f41b355-1759-452b-9be9-d9e03f5d7601
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Do you know what happened to the daughter Catherine born about 1866.
Shelburne Reid Fraser born 29 May 1905 Sask. with father John Alexander Fraser and mother Mary Jane Morrison which ties in with 1906 census.
Border crossing at Sumas Washington - failed to note date
All with last name Fraser
Daniel 26, Catherine 81, John A. 52, Mary J. 41, H. Frank 8, Sheburn Reed 6. From Carievale Saskatchewan going to visit a Morrison Bellingham Washington. Nearest relative in Canada was Catherine's son D(?) Fraser in Newdale(? ) Manitoba. Sons born Wentworth and Catherine born Scotland.
In 1901 Carievale Assiniboia there is a widowed Catherine Fraser born 04 Feb 1830 Scotland with John Fraser 01 Jan 1863 Scotland and Donald 07 Oct 1866 Scotland. Immigration year for Catherine 1900. Seems to tie in with the family crossing the border except for places of birth for children.
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http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=146939
John and family and Catherine in 1911. This one says he was born in Nova Scotia.
Shelbourne Reid Fraser of Whatcom county Washington married evelyn Louise Huseby at Tacoma Washington 02 May 1927
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1920 Washington State census:
Name: John A Fraser
Age: 62
Birth Year: abt 1858
Birthplace: Nova Scotia
Home in 1920: Van Wyck, Whatcom, Washington
Father's Birthplace: Scotland
Mother's Birthplace: Scotland
Native Tongue: Scotch
Able to Speak English: Yes
Occupation: Farmer
Industry: General Farm
Name Age
John A Fraser 62
Mary J Fraser 49
H Frank Fraser 16
S Reid Fraser 14
Their is a possible match for a death in Washington, but the father isn't an Angus ???
First Name: John A.
Last Name: Fraser
Date Of Death: 5 Oct 1929
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Father Name: Thomas Alexander Fraser
Mother Name: Catherine Kennedy
Batch Id: 539154
Batch Locality: Washington, United States
Death Place: Bellingham, Whatcom, Washington
Mother Name Gn: Catherine
Mother Name Surname: Kennedy
Spouse Name: Mary J. Fraser
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Findagrave possibilites
If Shelbourne dropped his first name, and went by Reid, he and his parents are buried in Whatcom, Washington State (although Reid died in Oregon):
Reid Fraser Birth: May 29, 1905 Saskatchewan, Canada
Death: Dec. 19, 1929 Portland Multnomah County Oregon, USA
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=5972999&ref=acom
John A Fraser, Birth: 1857 Death: 1929
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Fraser&GSiman=1&GScid=77126&GRid=5580739&
Mary J Fraser Birth: unknown Death: Jul. 10, 1959 Note: aged 89
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Fraser&GSiman=1&GScid=77126&GRid=5580740&
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Shelburne's birth record (Saskatchewan) :
Registration Number: 1388
Last Name: FRASER
First Name: SHELBURNE REID
Sex: M
Birth Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 1905 / 5 / 29
Place of Birth: CARIEVALE Mother
MARY JANE MORRISON
Father
JOHN ALEXANDER FRASER
Marriage in Ontario of John A to Mary J Morrison states John born in Nova Scotia and father is Thomas A:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-Y39B-177?i=666&cc=1784216
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I think that you both have the correct family. So many of the names and dates make sense. But some do not. Ist John's father was, I'm pretty certain, named Angus. He is in the 1861 census and that was the name handed down through my family. I wonder if it was Thomas Angus not Alexander.
Angus did live in Goderich but his son John may have been born in Nova Scotia on their way to Ontario.
The border crossing in 1911 seems to be of them and the date of immigration for Catherine of 1851 would be correct but one census says the date was 1900 which doesn't make sense.
Shelburne does appear to go by Reid at least in the 1920 Washington census.
Two troubling questions are John's fathers' name and in the border crossing of 1911, Daniel a brother of John and therefore a son of Catherine is 26 years old which would mean he was born in 1885, 14 years after his father died. In a census it says he was born in 1875 which is still 4 years too late.
I appreiciate the fantastic work you two have done and I'll take some time to try and fit all the pieces together.
Rodger
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I personally don't think you have the correct John Fraser and family. They are residing closer to Manitoba than Melfort in 1911 plus the existence of extra brothers and missing sister Catherine.
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I agree with Cosmac.... there are just too many red flags going up.
I think Cosmac was right about the 1881 Upper census as well.
The daughter Catherine was the last known child, born around 1866. This, along with no found death record for father Angus, suggests he died before the 1869 start of bmd registrations. So what if mother Catherine, with little kids and no support, remarried to Alexander in Thorold? This would make the following a really good fit:
1881 Canada census
Name: Catharine Upper
Marital Status: Married
Age: 45
Birth Year: 1836
Birthplace: Scotland
Religion: Canada Presbyterian Church
Nationality: Scotch (Scotish)
Province: Ontario
District Number: 142
District: Welland
Sub-District Number: H
Subdistrict: Thorold
Division: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Upper 45
Catharine Upper 45
William Fraser 18
Catherine J. Fraser 14
1911 Canada Census
Name: Catherine Upper
Marital Status: Widowed
Age: 75
Birth Date: May 1836
Birth Place: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Head
Race or Tribe: Irish ???
Province: Ontario
District: Welland
District Number: 132
Sub-district: 33 - Thorold
Sub-District Number: 33
Place of Habitation: Thorold Tp
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Upper 75
Catharine Frazer 42
Mother Catherine's death reg (Do you know if her father was a McPhee?)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6SX3-TKZ?i=1140&cc=1307826
Mother Catherine burial:
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=72700148&ref=acom
Daughter Catherine burial
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=fraser&GSiman=1&GScid=2284915&GRid=159020771&
I haven't been able to find a marriage for Catherine and Alexander, nor a death reg. for daughter Catherine (which would really help if it named Angus as her father)
With the burial of Bridget, it's pretty much a given that William went to Saskatchewan, but John is still a mystery.
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Just to add to the above scenario, Scotlandspeople has a marriage for an Angus Fraser and Catherine McPhee, in 1856, in the RD of Daviot and Dunlichity.
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Here is what I believe to be correct.
Angus and Catherine were married in Daviot/Dunlitchity in Inverness-shire Scotland. The came to Canada and to Goderich On where Angus died in 1871 (Canadian Genealogy Indes 1600's-1900's).
In 1861 in Goderich they are living with their children John, William, Janet and Catherine. Janet died about 1867 and is buried in Maitland Cemetery Goderich.
1871 in Goderich Catherine, widowed, is living with John, William and Catherine (the last I know about her).
In 1906 John is in the Assiniboia area of Saskatchewan with his wife Mary and sons Houston, Shelburne, his widowed mother Catherine, a brother David born about 1867 but not mentioned in the 1871 census. Also a son John born about 1881 and a grandson George Simpson.
William marries Bridget McKay in Manitoulun on Dec. 4, 1889. His parents are Angus and Catherine Fraser.
1901 William and Bridget are living in Algoma.
1911 William and Bridget are in Melfort Sask. where he is a Merchant (a good fit with the Wood family).
Bridget dies on June 10, 1923 in Winnipeg and is buried in Melfort.
What is less certain
I believe that the 1911 census in Assiniboia is probably the correct family since this is where they are living in 1906.
The John Fraser and family going to Washington State in 1911 is probably them as well although I do have a problem with the date.
I believe that the 1920 Washington State census is most likely John and his family. The sons names are unusual and therefore probably them.
What I think is less likely that Catherine re-married or that the 1881 census in Thorold is her. If she was in Saskatchewan with John and his family in 1911, the Welland census of that year is probably not of her.
The most likely scenario is that Catherine moved to Washington State with her son John and his family where she died and is probably buried.
The most troubling is the father's name as Thomas Alexander. Perhaps his middle name was Angus and not Alexander.
Thanks bbart and Cosmac for all your help with this.
P.S. Angus Fraser was a brother of my G-G- Grandmother Catherine who married Andrew Smith in Daviot and moved to Peel County Ontario in 1832.
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I followed the Thomas Alexander Fraser with wife Catherine (nee Kennedy and both were from Argyll). They are still in Nova Scotia in the 1881 census, along with son John A and other kids.
Thomas died in Brandon, Manitoba in 1885, then the rest of the family moved across Canada and down to Washington state as we followed previously.
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=84601856&ref=acom
I really can't see how this fits with your family.
From Scotlandspeople, I took a look at the marriage of Angus Fraser and Catherine McPhee (Daviot and Dunlichity, Inverness). His parents were John Fraser and Marjory Rose, both deceased, and Catherine's parents were John McPhee and Janet Cummings, which matches with the parents named on Catherine Upper's death registration. The witnesses to the marriage were John Smith and James Fraser. It's really looking like this is your Catherine to me.
Do you have the birth reg. for your GG grandmother to know her parents names?
Angus didn't necessarily die in 1871. The CGI reference is to page 351 of the 1871 Lovell's Directory. If you look at that, you will see the entry for Fraser, Catherine (widow Angus). The CGI is just noting that in 1871, there was a deceased Angus in Goderich. At Ancestry, go to Lovell's Canadian Dominion Directory, 1871, page 351 (image 188/999) to see what I mean.
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A rather interesting find..... in the Lovells directory of 1871 mentioned in my last post, there are only four Fraser's, Catherine, a Charles, a Donald and a John. So there wasn't a lot of Frasers' in Goderich. I found a business directory for Ontario for 1869 which does not list the general public, just select persons, so I didn't expect to find Angus. Take a look!
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k84/
You might have to scroll down a wee bit.
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Angus parents were John Fraser and Marjory Rose so the marriage you found for Angus and Catherine is the correct one. Angus did have a brother James.
I think you have changed my mind. I now think the John Fraser and family that moved to Washington
is not the correct one.
It does seem like Catherine did marry again to Alexander Upper. They are both buried in Fonthill Cemetery. Her daughter Catherine is also buried in Fonthill and a William Fraser born July 11, 1862 and died May 12, 1940 is also buried there. Could this be her son?
I still think the William and Bridget of Melfort is our William, but what of John. It has been in our family tree for several generations that Angus' sons John and William lived in Melfort.
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I agree on William and Bridget.... her grave is a big green flag. John will show up, we just have to keep turning over every rock!
Angus Fraser, deputy sheriff, of Goderich, died 27 Jun, 1870. Newspaper article middle of column 3, in this very slow to load pdf:
https://pubdocs.huroncounty.ca/weblink/3/edoc/129640/Huron%20Signal,%201870-6-30,%20Page%202.pdf
This is from a site with Huron newspapers, with honestly the worst search method ever. I took a screenshot in case the link doesn't work, because I'll never find it again!
https://www.huroncounty.ca/library/special-collections/digitized-newspapers/
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Would be nice to find an obituary for Catherine (mother) which might indicate where her children were. Perhaps the Fonthill library could help. I think I would also contact the Fonthill cemetery to see if they have records of parents etc on burials as that would rule in or out the Catherine and William Fraser in that cemetery
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:D
I got the newspaper article on Angus' death and I'll try the Fonthill library for information on the burials.
Great work...great suggestions
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Do you know if Angus had a much older brother, or more likely, an uncle George?
I found so few Frasers in Goderich in the 1871 directory, so I was surprised to see an 1851 directory listing for a former deputy sheriff named George Fraser. He was also the coroner, notary public, and master in chancery. Busy man!
https://www.accessgenealogy.com/canada/1851-goderich-canada-directory.htm
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There was a Simon John Fraser born 07 Jan 1858 Goderich, s/o Donald Fraser and Catherine Dryden who died 30 Sep 1921 in Michigan and is buried Mt. Pleasant Toronto.
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I don't believe Angus had a brother George. I don't know who his fathers parents were or his fathers' siblings but it does seem like a coincidence that another Fraser in Goderich was a sheriff or deputy sheriff.
Angus' siblings that I believe came to Canada were
Donald who came in about 1831 and died in Penetang On in 1863. This could be the father of Simon who was born in Goderich in 1858. I don't know Donald's wifes name but he must have been married because he had a son William D. Fraser who lived in Cleveland Ohio.
Brother James came to Canada about 1894 but returned to Scotland where he died about 1925.
And Catherine my G-G-Grandmother who married Andrew Smith.
Other siblings not known to have come to Canada were Simon, Alexander, John, Duncan and Marjory.
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http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=72837
The above is a link for the WW1 records for a Lloyd Brydon. He lists his next of kin as his aunt, Mrs. W. Fraser of Melfort.
It looks like he puts his birthdate as 16 Jan 1890, but after a ton of searching, it is really 1896. Either he didn't press hard enough on the pen, or the top tail of the six has faded away. Anyways, he is the son of Bridget's sister, Jenny/Jane, who married Walter Brydon.
Lloyd was actually born in Ontario, same place that William and Bridget were in 1906. Lloyd's mother didn't die until the 1950's, (and his father left the family when he was young), so I'm not sure why he had his paychecks go to his Aunt Bridget (if you open his digital file at the above link) you will see her listed on multiple pages).
He was living in Winnipeg on the 1921 census, and moved to Illinois in 1925. I'm guessing that Bridget was visiting him when she died in Winnipeg in 1923.
I still can't find them (William and Bridget) in 1916, but the WW1 records state she was in Melfort. Going through the 1921 census page by page, I finally found them, mistranscribed as surname Frason. They are on MacLeod Ave, Melfort, William is a merchant. If searching under Frason does not work, follow this:
1921 Census of Canada
Saskatchewan
Prince Albert
Sub-District 50 - Melfort (Town)
image 35 of 37
Also, I found the Melfort newspapers online, but so far for only the WW1 years at http://sabnewspapers.usask.ca/browse/city The search function does not work, at least for me, which is aggravating when you know with such a small town there will be tidbits on all the locals.
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After posting the above, I gave the 1916 census one more look for William and Bridget.
Somehow, FRASER is transcribed as WALL. :o
1916 Canada Census of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta
Saskatchewan
Prince Albert
20
image 18 of 36
It seems they always had a lodger or two, and no kids have ever shown.
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I honestly don't know how you found the census with the spelling so far off. Great work!
I found the death info for Catherine Upper of Welland in 'Ontario Deaths & deaths overseas.' It names her parents as John McFee and Jessie Cumming the same as on her marriage record to Angus. So we now know for sure that she did remarry. It also names her informant as Miss Kate Fraser of Welland.
Very interesting about Lloyd Bryden and only mentioning his aunt Bridget. He didn't seem like a very healthy person for being so young.
You're probably correct why Bridget died in Winnipeg. My guess is that some years after she died William came back to Ontario to live with his aging mother and died there and the grave of William Fraser in Fonhill Cemetery 1862-1940 is most likely him.
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My guess is that some years after she died William came back to Ontario to live with his aging mother and died there and the grave of William Fraser in Fonhill Cemetery 1862-1940 is most likely him.
I posted the links earlier from findagrave for both mother and daughter Catherines', but if you look at the grave markers from canadianheadstones.com instead, you get the grave location. You can see that both Catherines and William are buried very close together, all in "Brown's South Extension - Row 28" and if you look at the id numbers in the link, extremely close together. (The id numbers would be taken from the order of the graves as the photographer went down the rows)
Just a bit more proof that the William is yours.
Catharine Upper, mother
http://www.canadianheadstones.com/on/view.php?id=629093
[Brown's South Extension - Row 28]
Catherine Fraser, daughter
http://www.canadianheadstones.com/on/view.php?id=629097
[Brown's South Extension - Row 28]
William Fraser
http://www.canadianheadstones.com/on/view.php?id=629099
[Brown's South Extension - Row 28]
It might be worth your while asking the cemetery for the burial records on William just to see who took care of the burial arrangements. (Probably too high to hope it was brother John).