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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Westy11 on Wednesday 07 June 17 07:36 BST (UK)
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Hoping for some assistance to determine if there is a problem and if so to help sort.
The possible arises as I have been trying to locate William in the 1851 Census and thought I had located him BUT he records his birthplace as Battle.
I am now worried I have the correct William and also if I am correct with his siblings. I though to place my challenge on the forum and hope for some assistance.
William is a son of George Carrick & Mary Carter. George and Mary married St Bartholomew Burwash 23 Sep 1793. George was a Butcher and it seems he was rather mobile.
The first child I can locate for the couple is the William Carrick bap 02 Feb 1794 St Bartholomew Burwash mentioned above. William married 15 Apr 1816 Battle to Philadelphia Philmer.
Next child is Mary born 25 Jul 1795 Speldhurst, Kent. Mary married Henry Wallis in Rotherfield in 1815.
Then George born 16 Oct 1796 Speldhurst.
Jane born 22 Jul 1798 Speldhurst
Hannah bap 04 May 1800 Dallington, Sussex
Richard bap 02 Mar 1802 Dallington
In the 1841 census William now a widower is at Flimwell, Ticehurst and a servant living with 7 of his children. [ HO107/1109/Book: 7/28 p 10 Ticehurst Sussex]. The details are correct as far as they go.
The 1851 Census I located [and which raised a question for me] (HO107/1639/87 p 6) is where George is married again and living with his second wife Mary and his son Edwin. Edwin was a baby when William's first wife died and was listed in the 1841 census.
The conundrum for me is that this William says he was born in Battle.
Thoughts on firstly the baptisms and births of George & Mary Carrick's children then secondly is this the correct William?
Westy
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Many people didn't really know exactly where they were born, and probably remember places from their earlier memories.
As such, William probably remembers Battle as the place of his growing up.
What does the 1841 census say regarding place of birth? Born in County, or Out of County?
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Hi,
Born in county.
Westy
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People may not be baptised in the same place that they are born. Where was William's mother from? She may have gone to stay with her mother (William's grandmother) for the confinement, then had the baby baptised where she returned to her husband.
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Hello Lizzie,
I do understand that and I had wondered about it. William's mother Mary Carter was born and baptised in Burwash.
Mary's mother Hannah Brook was also baptised in Burwash .
Westy
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Freereg has a marriage for a George Carrick of Dallington and a Mary Wood of Burwash at Burwash on 22aug 1768. Could these be your George's parents? George and Mary (nee Carter) could have moved to be near his parents and that was where later children were baptised.
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Hello Lizzie,
The George Carrick Im researching was from Catsfield and this was mentioned in the marriage index which gives me a high level of confidence that I have the right couple.
Given your experience what are your thoughts on the 1851 census for William?
I know for sure his first wife Philadelphia Philmer was deceased in 1839, William listed as widower in the 1841 census held in March 1841, and William had married secondly in Sept 1841. Its possible the William Carrick and his second wife Mary and his son Edwin from his first marriage are the people in the 1851 census.
Whats the general consensus?
Wesy
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I'm inclined to think it's the same William in 1841 and 1851. Edwin turns up in 1861 with his brother George and family in Tunbridge Wells. A Henry carrick also b Ticehurst is a couple of doors away, so it fits with another brother. So it links the Edwin in 1851 to the two older brothers in the household with him and father / stepmother in 1841.
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Originally I was worried and now I'm just a little unsure.... so that's a big improvement. ;D
Circumstantial evidence leads me to tend to think this is the correct William and for some reason Battle has gone down as his birth place.
As yet I haven't located him in the 1861 census although I notice some trees have him in Kent in 1861 but I don't think that's him as the birth location is off track.
Westy
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Just noticed you said he married his first wife in Battle. maybe he did not fill in his own census return and it was done by a family member, possibly second wife and she thought he was born there because she had been told that was where he and his first wife married.
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Its certainly possible, I also wondered if the person completing the return put Battle as this was where Mary was baptised?
I suppose its all a possibility.
Thanks for your help.
I hope to find him in the 1861 census and see what location is provided.
Westy
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Originally I was worried and now I'm just a little unsure.... so that's a big improvement. ;D
Circumstantial evidence leads me to tend to think this is the correct William and for some reason Battle has gone down as his birth place.
As yet I haven't located him in the 1861 census although I notice some trees have him in Kent in 1861 but I don't think that's him as the birth location is off track.
Westy
Looks like he's a turnpike gate keeper in Snodland in Kent in 1861, and in 1871 he's in Margate in receipt of parish relief. In 1881 Mary is in Thanet workhouse as a widow. Death reg for a William Carrick in Thanet district Q3 1875 age 85.
His pob is transcriped as Pouth in 1871 on Ancestry, but the image does look like Battle.
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Hello Lizzie,
Thanks so much.
Will check it out.
Westy
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Hello Westy
For consideration:-
William Carrick baptised at Sedlescombe 19 September 1790, son of George and Fanny.
George Carrick of Hawkhurst married Frances Morris at Sedlescombe 15 January 1789.
George and Fanny then went on to have 3 children baptised at Battle until Fanny's death (buried at Battle 17 April 1798, wife of George).
The above William would appear to be the William Carrick who gives his birthplace as Battle in the census. His first wife Philadelphia died in 1839 and he remarried to Mary Saxby at Ticehurst on 6 September 1841, and William's father's name was George.
Best wishes
Caroline
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Well Caroline, it feels like I need to go back to the drawing board. ???
It is important for me to confirm the research and findings so off I go.
Thanks for you contributions,
Westy
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For what it is worth, I concur with Caroline, and that your William was the son of George and Frances/Fanny. I also note that William and Philadelphia named a daughter Fanny which strengthens it a little more.
Sedlecombe and Battle are only just under 2 miles apart and clearly William was indeed raised in Battle.
Caroline - I'm assuming you have access to records not online as I cannot find any baptisms at Sedlecombe or Battle for the relevant time in currently available online records. Whatever your source, well done you for finding and posting on this thread.
What were the names/dates of the 3 children baptised in Battle (just for my own curiosity)? I also note that a George Carrick appears in the census at Battle bc.1789 Hawkhurst - wonder if this was the first child to George and Fanny (who'd married January that year)?
Annette
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Hello Annette
George Carrick and Fanny (Morris)'s children at Battle were:
Ann bap 1793; Elizabeth bap 1795 and John 1797. Fanny Carrick was buried at Battle 17 April 1798 and register noted 'wife of George'.
Yes, you're right about George Carrick from Hawkhurst being George and Fanny's child- his baptism appears at Hawkhurst on 3 October 1788 as George Carrick Morris, baseborn son of Fanny Morris.
Best wishes
Caroline