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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: erinb1983 on Sunday 11 June 17 02:08 BST (UK)
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I am currently researching my husband's family tree and these 2 have been a sticking point for me. All I know is that Susan was born around 1801 and died in December 1849 in Atherton in Devon and William was born about 1808 somewhere in Devon. If anyone has any information I would appreciate it. :)
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A couple of maybe's...
Susanna Dalling, baptised 27 Jan 1793, Landkey, Devon. father William. mother Mary.
William Edward Bale, baptised 16 Nov 1800, Exeter, Devon. father Thomas. mother Margaret.
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Same names but different dates - I have William Bale of Pilton married Susan Dallyn 26 Dec 1818 at Barnstaple Parish Church and they both signed the register. E Jones Wm Dallyn and John Kingsland were the witnesses. Susan was baptised in Landkey 27 Jan 1793 and was buried 11 Sep 1825 at Pilton. Susan and William had three children - Mary Ann Dalling BALE, Susan BALE and William Dallyn BALE , my great great grandfather. William Bale was a carpenter, joiner and bellhanger.
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A William BALE of Pilton married Susan DALLYN of Barnstaple on 26 Dec 1818 at Barnstaple so it is impossible for William to have been born in 1808. The 1849 burial for Susan at Atherington gave her age as 50, so born ca 1799.
A William BALE married Susanna BROWN at Atherington 26 Mar 1828 with an Edward BROWN as witness - I think this is more likely for your couple. Both were said to be of the parish. A William BALE's burial at Atherington 21 Aug 1880 stated that he was 76 living in Chittlehampton and a William BALE was baptised at West Down, son of William & Mary on 3 March 1805. A Susanna BROWN was baptised at Atherington February 1801 dau of Edward & Grace.
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Thank you all so much for the information, I've only started my husbands tree recently and am working from a less than informative partially done, hand written tree done by a family member some years ago. It is definitely Susan dalling or I guess Dallyn who I am after. William Dalling Bale is my husband's 4th great grandfather. I did think the spelling might be off and the dates of birth. Thanks so much for the info :)
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Hi Erinb
Great to make contact with someone researching William Dallyn BALE - I am descended from his daughter Ellen Rebecca BALE who married Thomas William DALLY in 1879 - their daughter Beatrice Ellen DALLY was my grandmother. Who does your husband descend from?
Dalling/Dallyn seem to be interchangeable - baptism is Dalling; father's will is Dallyn and I have a photograph with "Wm Dallyn Bale", headstone at Boroondara Cemetery Kew is Dalling, Will is Dalling. . . . regards from Beth
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Hi Beth
My husband is descended from Emma Ocean Bale who married Thomas Stokes, their daughter Clara Ivy Stokes was his 2nd great grandmother. Yes it seems some of the family used Dalling and some Dallyn, you have to love it when that happens ;D
Erin
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Hi Erin
Good to know where you fit in on the family tree. Do you have a Victorian Birth Certificate for Emma Oceane Bale - if not let me know and I can send it to you. Cheers from Beth
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Hi Erin and Beth,
Hoping you may be able to help me. In my family tree I have a Charles BALE, b.28 Aug 1872 in NSW, mother is Ellen BALE aged 18 and born Sommersetshire, England, no father shown.
I havent been able to find any marriage or death references in NSW for Ellen but did find a reference to a William and Ellen BALE arriving in NSW in 1853 with their son, William (aged 2) and Ellen (born on the voyage), aboard the ship Bussorah Merchant.
Information on the immigration list show that William BALE is the son of William and Susan BALE. My question is do you have any reference to Ellen Martha (nee BALE) DALLY residing in NSW (Parramatta) and having a son named Charles?
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Hi and Welcome ;D
I am not Erin or Beth :D
....William and Ellen BALE arriving in NSW in 1853 with their son, William (aged 2) and Ellen (born on the voyage), aboard the ship Bussorah Merchant.
Even though she was named as Ellen on the immigration record she was actually registered in 1854 as Emma Oceane BALE. She married Thomas STOKES in Victoria in 1870.
Perhaps your Ellen might be this one:
Birth in the Taunton district, Somerset:
BALE, ELLEN
Mother's maiden surname: LAVER
GRO Reference: 1854 M Quarter in TAUNTON
Volume 05C Page 423
Her parents George BALE and Emma LAVER had married in 1851. Children born to them in Victoria were Henry in 1856 and Sarah in 1862. I then see Mrs BALE travelling from Melbourne to Sydney with Henry aged 7 and Ellen aged 9, in September 1863 on the Rangatira. Sarah was most likely also with them but babes in arms are often not recorded. She was baptised at St John's, Parramatta in 1866 with her date of birth given as 20 June 1862. George was a labourer and they resided near Statham's farm.
Debra :)
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Welcome to Rootschat.
Is this the death of Charles with father GEORGE?
1787/1903 BALE Charles GEORGE and ELLEN GRANVILLE
Jamjar
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Hi Debra :)
Thanks for replying. I am intrigued as they must have left Sydney for Melbourne pretty quick. Having landed in Sydney 19 Mar 1853.
The other option you suggested does sound possible. Im just struggling to find any references to any Ellen BALE in NSW
Hi Jamjar :D
Yes that is his death certificate and the father was a gardener. He is also shown on Charles marriage certificate.
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His burial, Rookwood:
CHARLES BALE 28 Year 17.2.1903 Zone F Independent General D 968.
So, are you saying that the parents are George and Ellen BALE on the certificate?
Do the certs indicate whether mother is deceased, or not?
Jamjar
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Thats correct. He is actually buried with another male who died in 1906.
It shows that his father is 'George BALE, Gardener.' Mother is 'Ellen unknown'. No mention of deceased. The informant was the superintendent at Rookwood Asylum (where he died)
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Birth in the Taunton district, Somerset:
BALE, ELLEN
Mother's maiden surname: LAVER
GRO Reference: 1854 M Quarter in TAUNTON
Volume 05C Page 423
This Ellen's father George was a gardener on the 1851 census, living in Bickenhall, Somerset.
Class: HO107; Piece: 1922; Folio: 172; Page: 14
Debra :)
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Who is this? Ellen Martha (nee BALE) DALLY
Jamjar
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Jamjar,
It appears they are 2 separate families. Ellen and William (with their children) arrived Syd in 1853, shortly after moving and living to Victoria. This is the parents of Ellen (nee BALE) DALLY.
George and Emma arrived in Victoria (??) and travelled to Sydney with their children in 1863 as Debra said.
Thank you both for the information you have given. Debra, it is possible that George and Emma could be Ellen's parents (my Ellen BALE) as according to the birth cert of her son Charles, she gave birth to him 'Windsor Rd, near Parramatta' and her address was 'Western Rd, near Parramatta'. Charles could be an illegitimate child and where reference is shown as his father being 'George', it could be his grandfather (Ellen's father)
Did I make it more confusing? :-D
Again thank you both. Greatly appreciate your help and advice
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So am I correct in thinking that you mean Ellen Rebecca Bale, who married Dally in Victoria, and not Martha?
My grandmother had an illegitimate child and her father’s name was recorded as the father of the child and she as the mother.
Jamjar
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So, if they were in Parramatta then is is possibly Ellen’s mother’s death:
12023/1891 BALE Emma parents JOHN and SARAH PARRAMATTA
The father:
9076/1876 BALE George father JAMES DIED PARRAMATTA PARRAMATTA
Do you have these certificates?
Ellen’s brother Henry’s death?:
14284/1917 BALE Henry parents GEORGE and EMMA GRANVILLE
Jamjar
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Wow Jamjar, now Im alittle confused. This is what I have... birth cert of Charles BALE 28 Aug 1872, Windsor Rd near Parramatta, mother Ellen BALE, 18 years, born Sommersetshire, England. Informant same but Western Rd, near Parramatta.
marraige cert of Charles BALE and Elizabeth GLIDDON 4 July 1893, All Saints Church Parramatta, fathers name George BAIL, Gardener, mother maiden name Ellen ........
They had 4 children, 1st born in Hunter Street Parramatta in 1895. Same year Charles was found guilty of assault and break enter - 4 years in Goulburn Gaol.
2nd born in 1899 in Mudge. In 1901 they back in Granville for 3rd born. And their last is born in 1902.
Charles died 1903, as I said, father shown as George BALE, Gardener. Mother is Ellen (maiden name unknown).
If I can help with anything else please let me know. Happy to scan and send. I may have missed something on them that may help.
Sorry I dont have any other BALE cert, as I havent linked them to this family as yet
Regards
Michael
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Michael, I just looking at the information given by Debra, re family from VIC, and your mention of Paramatta.
She gave a Sarah and there is a Sarah Bale mentioned PARRAMATTA Court, also, first column:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article249011048
Death:
9560/1923 BALE Sarah 61 YRS P'MATTA PARRAMATTA
Fits with birth year given by Debra:
Children born to them in Victoria were Henry in 1856 and Sarah in 1862.
Jamjar
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That could very well be the same Sarah that Debra mentioned. Pity it doesnt have an age in the article.
I did find that George BALE who died in 1876 is buried in the All Saints cemetery, Parramatta, and he was 47 (shown on the very bottom) but havent found where Emma is buried as yet
https://www.austcemindex.com/inscription?id=7691462#images
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At Rookwood:
SARAH BALE 61 30-5-1923 Zone C NN 2943
Jamjar
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Think this may be the correct Henry Bale death and not the first I gave. The other is at Rookwood and is too young. This one is only a couple of years out in age:
12996/1933 BALE Henry father GEORGE 7O YRS GRANVILLE GRANVILLE
Death notice: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16992037
Funeral: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16992006
He’s supposed to be at Rookwood, but isn’t showing on online search.
Jamjar
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I have found a Henry BALE died 1 Nov 1933 but aged 92. He is buried in the Field of Mars cemetery with Emily BALE who died 18 Jan 1926.
Michael
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I have found a Henry BALE died 1 Nov 1933 but aged 92. He is buried in the Field of Mars cemetery with Emily BALE who died 18 Jan 1926.
Michael
No, his folks are William and Elizabeth. Registered Balmain North.
Emily- father THORNE mother Emily Balmain North
Jamjar
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beat me to it, just checked :-)
Are you descended from a BALE family? You mentioned your grandmother had an illegitimate child, was she a BALE?
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No, no BALE in my tree. ;D
You mentioned: BALE Ellen inft Bussorah Merchant 1853 Sydney and/or Newcastle and family. Born on voyage (bv)
Note she was born on ship, so not connected to those mentioned by Debra.
Jamjar
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:D :D
I thought that the 'Ellen BALE' that was born on the ship was Charles mother, but alas I m pretty certain it isnt. The information Debra has shared could very well be the one I am looking for.
Another story in the Cumberland Mercury about Henry
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/248611162?searchTerm=bale%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom=1876-01-01|||dateTo=1876-12-31|||l-advtitle=1368|||sortby
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Poor family had its issues, if we have the correct connections. :(
Regarding the link you put up for Trove, to get a neater link: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article248611162
You go to top, left corner and click on the little ‘i’. Then copy the ‘article identifier’.
I like to say what column the information is in, as I have been unable to find some things folk post. The location doesn’t always show on my iPad.
Jamjar
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We’re no closer to finding Ellen, are we?
Jamjar
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It just gets worse for them, 4th column:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article111144138
Jamjar
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:) :)
Thanks for the tip. Didnt know how to paste the 'short' link :)
Not any closer but hopefully on the right trail now. Have let this branch of my family go idle for some time and just thought I would dust off the folder and refresh my memory
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:o
Oh No.. She would have been 17 years old. I now wonder if Charles is the result of another rape shortly after or did that event send her to the streets?
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Just received notification about this thread and thought I could fill in a bit about William Dalling BALE (1822-1893) and his wife Ellen Martha MOUNTIER (1825-1915). They married in Brixton, Surrey in 1846 had one son William Mountier Bale who died in infancy and gave the same names to their second son - so William Mountier Bale (1851-1940). William and Ellen came to NSW on the Bussorah Merchant, Ellen Bale was born on the voyage 17 January 1853, also travelling with the Bale family was Mary Jane Bale (1832-1873) a half-sister to William. Mary Jane married Samuel Fox in 1853 (Ellen Martha Bale of New Town NSW was a witness) and in 1854 their daughter Emma Fox was born. By 4 Jan 1854 William and Ellen and children were living at St Kilda Victoria and the baby born the previous year on the Bussorah Merchant was registered as Emma Oceane Bale (1853-1931). Ellen Martha Bale's brother Frederick MOUNTIER and his wife Harriet arrived in Port Phillip in 1853 and lived in St Kilda. Over the years William Dalling Bale gave his occupation as carpenter, joiner and Inspector of Works. The fifth child in the family of William and Ellen BALE was Ellen Rebecca BALE (1857-1940) and she married Thomas William DALLY in 1879. They had five children and moved to Warracknabeal in north west Victoria in 1894.
William Dalling BALE had a half brother Charles born about 1843 in Barnstaple Devon who married Mary Isaac about 1866 - 2 children born about 1870 but I have not traced this family any further.
Hope that makes sense - I just thought it would help rule out some of the names you have found. I have certificates for most of these events, except for Charles.
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:) Descendant of the Bale family here, hailing from Emma Oceane Bale.
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Hi Th-Morrissey Just saw your message - I haven't done any research on this family for a long time. I have some information on the STOKES family and I am happy to share. Looking forward to hearing from you.
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Hi Beth,
I've also done a bit of research on the Stokes family and we do descend from a man, named Herman Walter Stokes who in turn, was a son of THOMAS STOKES, and EMMA (ELLEN?) OCEANE BALE. :) I'm assuming you're also a descendant of the Stokes?
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I descend from Ellen Rebecca BALE (1857-1940) and she married Thomas William DALLY in 1879. They had five children and moved to Warracknabeal in north west Victoria in 1894.
I have certificates for some births deaths and marriages that I could send to you if you don't already have them
- Emma Oceane BALE 1853 Birth Certificate
- 1913 DC for McDonoughAda
- 1861 BC for Bale Frederick Mountier
- 1864 BC for BALE Minnie
- 1893 DC for BALE William Dallyn
- 1915 DC for BALE Ellen Martha
also a photo of William and Ellen's headstone in Boroondara Cemetery. Looking forward to hearing from you.