RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: Misha77 on Monday 12 June 17 14:32 BST (UK)
-
I would like to have the Rootschatters' thoughts on this information? Sarah Rhodes [nee Stopford] was living in 1891 in Tintwistle where her three children, Joseph, John and Martha Ellen were born. She married her husband, William Rhodes, in 1884, Hadfield [Parish of Whitfield, Derbyshire] but he drops out of the records and Sarah is recorded on the 1891 census as 'married' but she is an employed boarder. Her sons in 1901 are living with their aunt, Martha Stopford Callandine, in Tintwistle but Sarah and her daughter are unaccounted for. I have been fortunate enough to find these school records [Duke of Norfolk, Glossop] which records Sarah as a widow and the family address as 'The Union'. I have presumed this to be the Union Workhouse, Glossop, but would welcome any input. It is always good to have another viewpoint. Best wishes and thanks. I am appending the school records. The year of birth is correct for the children but not the month. They were not all born in May.
-
I'll try the attachments again.
-
1891 census, for reference:
Class: RG12; Piece: 3297; Folio: 127; Page: 17
Lower Newton Square, Tintwistle, Lancashire
Potts, Mary Head Widow F 73 b Cheshire
Blackburn, Edwin Grandson M 21 b Cheshire
Ollerenshaw, Ellen Granddaughter F 18 b Cheshire
Rhodes, Sarah Boarder Married F 29 Cotton Weaver b Cheshire
Rhodes, Joseph Boarder M 6 b Cheshire
Rhodes, Martha E Boarder F 5 b Cheshire
Rhodes, John Boarder M 2 b Cheshire
-
thank you, yes, that's the 1891 census I have for them. Tintwistle is now in Derbyshire but then of course it was in Cheshire. I do a lot of bobbing between the counties to check records.
-
There is a Death for Sarah Rhodes age 30 born 1862, Abode Glossop, Burial 2 July 1892 in the Parish of Tintwistle. Could this by who you are looking for?
-
Yes. It's the right age and area. If she was ill it might explain why she and the kids ended up at 'The Union'. I don't know what happened to her husband. Thank you. That's really helpful.
-
Just as a point of interest, this was one of my 'brick walls'. I could not work out what happened to them all until I found a school records image on 'findmypast' which indicated they were in 'the workhouse'. I have supposed it to be the Glossop workhouse although most large parishes would have a Union workhouse. I'm still not sure what happened to William Rhodes [husband]. Martha Ellen vanishes. She's not with her brothers at her aunt's in 1901 so I wonder if she died. Anyway, it's been a step forward that I didn't have last year so it's all good. Info on the Glossop workhouse is plentiful on the heritage sites but it sounds an especially grim place. Poor souls.
-
Parish workhouses disappeared after the Poor Law Amendment Act 1834.
After that each Poor Law Union had a workhouse.
These Unions roughly correspond with Registration Districts - as Registration Districts were based on Poor Law Unions at first.
The best place to go for workhouse info is www.workhouses.org.uk.
The page for Glossop is:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Glossop/
-
Thank you.
-
I opted for the Glossop Union workhouse because the kids were at school in Glossop. As I understand it, although workhouses had their own classrooms, they would still keep children in their own school. I mean they could have been in the Ashton under Lyne Union which covered Tintwistle which is where they had been living. I've enjoyed the links. There's a lot of good info in there.
-
Glossop Poor Law Union (and therefore the workhouse) constituted the following parishes:
Glossop, including Glossop Dale, Charlesworth Churnal, Hadfield and Dinting, Padfield, Somondley, Whitfield, Ludworth and Chisworth.
Aston under Lyne Poor Law Union was comprised of the following parishes:
Lancashire: Ashton under Lyne, Denton, Droylsden, Haughton.
Cheshire: Duckingfield [Dukinfield], Godley, Hattersley, Hollingworth, Matley, Mottram, Newton, Stayley, Tintwistle.
Later Additions (all from 1894): Alt, Audenshaw, Bardsley, Crossbank, Hartshead, Hurst, Lees, Little Moss, Mossley, Stalybridge, Waterloo, Woodhouses.
Those people committed to a workhouse were referred by their parish.
So if the home parish was Tintwistle, they would be in the Ashton under Lyne workhouse.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/AshtonUnderLyne/
I think you're out of luck re records?
But try Tameside Local Studies and Archives Centre, Central Library, Old Street, Ashton-under-Lyne OL6 7SG.
The union's records were pulped during the Second World War with the exception of the Union Constitution (1837) and Guardians' Minutes (1837-1930).
-
I appreciate all the input. Thanks for the suggestions. I will enjoy following them up.
-
Lots of movement between Tintwistle and Glossop in those days - and now, indeed. Many residents of Hadfield used Tintwistle Independent Church, rather than Glossop Parish Church, because it was easier to get to.
If the wedding was in Hadfield it's a bit puzzling that the register entry for the marriage gives Parish of St James, which is Whitfield. Hadfield was in Whitfield Parish, after it was formed out of Glossop Parish, but the Parish of St Andrew's, Hadfield (formed out of Whitfield Parish), dates from 1874.
As the children were at Duke of Norfolk's school then it is almost certain that the workhouse would be the Glossop one (now Shire Hill Hospital) as it is just up the hill from the school.
Given that William was from Hadfield then presumably it would be Glossop Union that was responsible for supporting the family after William died/absconded.
-
Thank you for these details. I am not certain [though proving it is another thing] that William actually died. When his son, Joseph, married my great grandmother Evelyn Emma Ball in Flintshire in 1911 he is not named as 'deceased' on Joseph's marriage record although that could have been an oversight. If poor Sarah was a deserted wife she may have said she was a widow because of the stigma. I am really obliged for the geography of the place. I live in Sheffield myself and obviously have skirted about various parts of Glossop and the High Peake down the years but it is always helpful to have local information.
-
Whether "deceased" is added to s father's name rather depends on the questions asked?
All you can say is that, if "deceased" is there then he is dead.
Not putting "deceased" doesn't mean he was alive! ;D
-
It might be worth getting in touch with Derbyshire CRO to see if they have workhouse admission records for Glossop. Presumably Sarah's status (widowed or deserted) would be recorded.
Good excuse for a day out in Matlock if they do :)
-
Yes, you are quite correct. Absence of 'deceased' doesn't mean he didn't die. I'm just keeping options open. And yes, GrahamH, Derbyshire CRO will be my next stop. I intend to plan a visit in about a month's time. I have booked there before. I did find it strange that William and Sarah were down as living in Hadfield in 1884 as both of them were living in Tintwistle in the Christchurch parish in 1881 and all their three children were born in Tintwistle but all the family members [including the witnesses] check out as the right people so I will have to go with that. I found the Matlock CRO very helpful and the rootschatters input has been a real boon - thank you all very much.
-
If I have the right one, the 1881 census gives William's place of birth as Lower Barn. That was a farm in the Woolley Bridge area of Hadfield. A housing estate, including Lower Barn Road, was built there around 45-50 years ago.
As William was a spinner and Sarah a weaver, they could well have been working at the Sidebottom family's Waterside/Bridge Mill complex which straddled the Etherow so was partly in Hadfield and partly in Tintwistle. They could well have been living in one of the houses just on the Hadfield side.
-
Thank you, GrahamH. I am delighted with that piece of information. I did not have the knowledge to work that out for myself although doing the family tree I have learned a bit more about the cotton industry than I ever knew before. I would not have known which mill they worked in. To use a colloquial saying 'I am chuffed with that'. :) :) :)
-
My pleasure. I also happen to be web master for Glossop Heritage Trust. If you wish to learn a bit more about the cotton industry in the area please see http://www.glossopheritage.co.uk/mills00.htm
One of the mill owning families was called Rhodes but, as far as I can see, not connected to your William.
-
Thank you again. I will explore the link and have signed up to the Glossop Heritage page on facebook. It has been so helpful.
-
Ah, yes. My colleague, Kate, looks after the FB page - though I do post a few snippets there - whilst I look after the main web site.
Our aim is to do as much as we can to make Glossop's heritage as accessible as possible.