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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Elliven on Monday 12 June 17 21:55 BST (UK)
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I have been researching the business, rather than the family of the above mentioned James Guthrie who was described in an 1828 business directory as "James Guthrie, late of Dipton, in the Parish of Lanchester, Durham, Innkeeper, Common Carrier, sawyer, joiner, labourer and farmer." But in the latter part of that year he was in Durham Jail as a debtor and was due to appear in Durham court on 11th November 1828. After that, he just disappeared. Any ideas?
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Is this him?
Durham County Advertiser 04 February 1831
To be sold by Auction
...The unexpired LEASE of that well-accustomed PUBLIC HOUSE, known by the sign of THE DOG AND GUN, situated at Dipton, near Colliery Dykes, in the County of Durham, with a small Close adjoining, occupied by James Guthrie.
Further particulars [etc] Mr Thomas Currah, New Road or Messrs Carr & Jobling, Solicitors, Newcastle
The advert also appears a few times in 1830 and looks like it was also up for sale by auction in 1827 as a house, stables & close with the Appurtenances of the Dog and Gun.... held under lease from the late Robert Bonner for 99 years commencing 1 August 1738.
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Hello Jomot,
Yes, that is him! When I saw that you had mentioned the Dog and Gun - not mentioned in my post - I was ecstatic! Nobody in the village had any information on him or the pub and I think most people didn't believe that that particular pub ever existed. I was really surprised because there is a very active interest in the village history. The mention of the lease from Robert Bonner is also interesting because they were a prominent family in the area way back before the Enclosures Act - although they have moved away or died out now.
Can you tell me where you found this article as I would like to get a copy of the original if at all possible.
Many thanks
Elliven
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There are several baptisms at Lanchester between 1821 & 1835 for the children of James & Elizabeth Guthrie, Innkeeper of Dipton.
In 1841 James, Elizabeth & the children are living in Kyo, Durham & Lanchester RD - HO107, Piece 301, Book 16, Folio 13, Page 20. James is a Joiner.
The articles about the Dog & Gun are on the British Newspaper Archive and are also available on Find my Past. Let me know if you need specific newspaper titles & dates and I'll do my best to list them all.
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Thank you Jomot,
One specific newspaper title and date would be good enough as hard evidence. I will try to get a copy through the County Records Office as I do not have subscriptions with the BNA or Find My Past. Kyo and Lanchester are very close to Dipton so it is not surprising that he lived there. Knowing that he could have spent the rest of his life in a debtor's prison, I am surprised that he had ANY children between 1828 and 1835.
Elliven
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You're welcome - that's what we're here for :)
Durham County Advertiser 14 July 1827, Page 1, Column 3 - mentions James Guthrie & Robert Bonner, as well as the Dog & Gun.
These are the baptisms I found:
05 Oct 1821, Jane
11 May 1823, James Adam
10 Jun 1825, Alice (buried 16 Mar 1828)
27 Apr 1827, Mary Ann
10 Apr 1829, Alice
27 Jan 1832, Elizabeth
16 May 1834, James
30 Oct 1835, Margaret
James is noted as an Innkeeper on all of these except Elizabeth, when his occupation is given as Joiner.
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Apologies - have now amended the name error on the 1823 baptism
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Hello Jomot,
His wife must have been pregnant with Alice at the time he went into prison but the baptism dates of the last three children suggest that he was in prison for a relatively short time.
He was a sawyer and joiner - the latter explains his job after he was released. The former suggests he had a sawmill. The rough area where I believe the sawmill to have been is just 100 yards from where I live! The only sawmill that I have ever been able to discover in Dipton (which is quite a large village) is long gone but there is still an old terrace of houses named Sawmill Cottages at the end of which there are signs of another old building which has been demolished. This was done over 40 years ago and a new telephone exchange has been built on the site. I am now pretty sure this was the location of the Dog and Gun and the sawmill. Thanks to your information, I have something to work on when I try to prove this! Many thanks.
Elliven
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I'm afraid I can't help with the sawmill, but this directory from 1828 confirms the existence of James Guthrie at the Dog and Gun, Dipton, and also that he was a Carrier
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k93/
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Hello Jomot,
I already had the idea of the sawmill and I was pretty sure there was only ever one sawmill in Dipton. But that is just a tiny bit of the picture and the information you have supplied has given me an overview - what you might call the Big Picture. Thanks again
Elliven
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Either a 1831 typo or a more modern one. Should be Collierley Dykes, Dipton. Nice photograph of the Church and description of Collierley. .
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2248200
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Thanks barryd,
You are quite right about the spelling. I have lived in the village for the last 31 years and I had picked up on that error. After months of finding nothing at all Jomot gave me one big clue then followed up with a lot more and I am starting to build up the picture now. It's amazing what comes out of a simple request on this site!
Elliven
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Hi all
Just to confirm that I know the correct spelling but typed it exactly per the newspaper. It is advertised several times between Sep 1830 and Feb 1832 in both the Durham County Advertiser and the Newcastle Chronicle, and each time the spelling is Colliery.
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It should be noted also that written English did not have standardised spelling until 1835-1840 but even then the compositors who made up the typeset for newspapers were literate but not the best educated of people. Add to that the Geordie accent and spelling errors were inevitable!
Elliven
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Hello Jomot,
Armed with the information you gave me, I have been to have a look at the site. The telephone exchange occupies part of it but there is a new-ish bungalow on the other part and in the garden of that property is a huge stone wall which the owner believes to have been part of the sawmill/pub. It appears to be the gable end of a large two storey building.
Co-incidentally, I have found a photo of horses drawing tree trunks past what I believe to be that same wall. So, thanks to you, the owner and I are pursuing the story and we hope to dig up even more. Thanks again.
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Hi Elliven
Good to hear that the owner is interested in the history too - do post an update if you unearth anything, literally or figuratively !
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Hello Jomot,
The attached photo shows a huge section of wall that I had never seen before (even though I only live 100 yards away) because it is hidden from the street by trees. I have also found an early 20th Century photograph of horses pulling logs to Ewehurst Sawmill showing a near identical piece of wall. The location I have found is in Ewehurst Road! So I am very hopeful.
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The last Guthrie I have a record of is the marriage of Lucy Ann Guthrie/Ralph Irwin 1 October 1904.
St. Thomas, Collierley or if you prefer Harelaw. Not related to either.