RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: LesleyJaneMontague on Monday 12 June 17 22:59 BST (UK)
-
Hi there, am a bit stuck, can anyone help me trace the birth of my 4x great grandfather? William Montague died in the Watford cholera epidemic in 1849, aged 37 according to his death cert of which I have a copy. This gives a birth date of about 1812. He is on just the one census,1841, (but spelt Montigue) living with his wife Jane and young sons, George and William, at the Rookery, a silk throwster. This census says he was not born in the county of Hertfordshire, and that's about all I've got to go on! I also have a copy of his marriage certificate- in Rickmansworth on 25/12/1832 William Montague bachelor of this parish, married Jane Collins, spinster of this parish. Witnessed by William Collins and Timothy Rogers (the latter is a witness to all 3 marriages on this page of the register, a rector/vicar/churchman of some sort?). Have also found a Jesse Montague, born about 1820 in Watford who married Mary Ann Cole on 18/10/1841 at St Pancras old church, witnesses William and Jane Montague - think they could be related but don't know how. Jesse states his father George Montague is a gardener from Camden Town. Have also found a marriage in Rickmansworth for a George Montague, bachelor of this parish to a Sarah Powell, on 23/10/1831, witnesses Jane Collins and William Montague! Any pointers/advice much appreciated.
-
Hello LesleyJane and welcome to rootschat.
You've posted on the How to use rootschat board, so I'll ask a moderator to move your query - maybe to the Hertfordshire board as a starting point.
I can see also on the 1851 census that there were a couple more children to William and Jane:
Jane Montague 37 Watford (widow, pauper needle works)
George Montague 15 Watford (silk throwster)
William Montague 13 Watford (silk throwster)
Abraham Montague 4 Watford
Charles Montague 1 Watford
HO107/1714 / 294
It certainly sounds like there should be some connection with the George and Sarah POWELL marriage in 1831. Will keep looking. :)
-
Meant to add that Jesse MONTAGUE is on the 1841 census with the COLE family at Holt's Yard, Watford:
Mary Cole 50
John Cole 23
Mary Cole 20
Martha Cole 18
Jesse Montague 20
(all born in County I think)
HO107/439/32
-
Thank you for your help! I've been through lots of census info for both Jesse's family, which seemed to move around quite a bit, and William's after he died. I've pretty much ground to a halt with William's origins though, so frustrating....thanks again. Hopefully I'll get to know the ropes as I go along!
-
There's a George Montague, gardener, aged 50 in the 1841 census at Dyson's Yard, Watford. With Catherine, 45, both born in-county.
-
Yes I've come across this Census entry too, but it's making connections between them all that's causing me problems. Thanks for your help!
-
Just in case you don't have it, there is this marriage at Little Stanmore, Middlesex on 17 Jan 1841
George Montague, Full Age, Widower, Gardener of Little Stanmore. Father: George Montague, Gardener
Catherine Mason, Full Age, Widow of Little Stanmore. Father: John Weedon, Gardener
Wits: Eliza Lawrence (?), Joseph Welsh
George signed, Catherine made her mark
As William had a son named Abraham, this baptism could also be interesting:
2 Jun 1822, St. Marys, Watford, Abraham s/o George & Ann Montague
ADDED: It looks like Abraham served in the Royal Marines & can be found in the barracks at Chatham in 1841
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k97/
-
Still not helping to find the father of William, but the marriage of George MONTAGUE and Catherine MASON (both widowed) probably explains why Emma MASON (13) is with them in the 1841 census at Dyson's Yard, Watford.
-
A possibility in Waltham Abbey:
Baptism 22 April 1812
William Montague
Parents George & Ann
Possible siblings also baptised at Waltham Abbey: George (1810) Isaac (1815), Thomas Henry (1816)
-
Thank you so much for all this info! I have thought the William baptised at Waltham Abbey a contender. His parents George Montague and Ann Banster/ Varester married there 10/4/1809. Other children George b 10/10/1810, Isaac b 1815 d 1816, Thomas Henry b1816, all Waltham Abbey. Have managed to trace George through the censuses as he moved north, so he can't be the George Montague in Watford. I just don't know how you can know with any certainty that this is the right William.... The 1822 baptism of Abraham to a George and Ann Montague is interesting as this could make him another brother to those outlined above. It's like putting a jigsaw puzzle together with no picture to look at! Thank you for your help, I should have registered with Rootsweb long before now!
-
Just had a look on Ancestry and an Ann Montague died in Watford and buried there 8/7/1839, so that could leave George a widower and so he married again, to Catherine, a few years later? I think I'll have to send off for her death cert to see if that might have additional info. The info about Abraham joining the Marines is interesting as my William had a son William who joined the army, and he's in Colchester barracks on the 1861 Census. Thank you for looking at things with fresh eyes, always useful!
-
Something else struck me, with the mention about names within the family, so I've double checked. The George Montague from Essex who moved north is on the censuses as George B Montague, and has 2 sons George Ben and Ben Montague. George B senior died in Hull in 1893 by which time my side of the family had moved to Yorkshire. When my grandad Montague was born in 1891 he was named Ben! Is this significant perhaps? My dad says he often wondered where the name came from because he had no other Bens in the immediate family as far as my dad knew. Just a thought....
-
Another thought - I'm assuming Jesse MONTAGUE died in 1892 aged 72 (3a/498). His name is recorded as Jesse James MONTAGUE, perhaps he was baptised James and known as Jesse? (Although I can't see a suitable baptism for a James MONTAGUE either. ???)
-
Yes I presume he's the Jesse Montague that died in Watford in 1892. I didn't know about his other name of James though, thanks!
-
There are some wills for Montagues in Hertfordshire, a bit earlier:
PCC wills:
1773, William Montague, of Park Street, St Stephen, maltster
Daughters Sarah, Elizabeth, Mary
Son and executor William
1774, William Montague, of Watford, victualler
Wife and executrix Susannah, no children mentioned
1781, Giles Montague, of Berkhamstead St Peter, innholder
Wife Ann, no children mentioned
William Montague, son of late deceased uncle George Montague, blacksmith
John Montague, another son of George Montague
Wills at Hertford:
1791, Daniel Montague, of Kimpton, husbandman, register will and filed will
1791, Elizabeth Montague, of Kimpton, widow, register will and filed will
-
Assuming George is the correct father then this may well be his baptism at St Mary's, Watford:
26 Jul 1789, George Daniel Montague s/o Geor. & Catharine
-
Thank you for the info on the wills, which is new to me. Also the baptism for George which again is new food for thought. I need to sit down now with pen and paper to absorb it all !
-
Thanks for all your ideas so far. Sent off for Ann Montague's death cert but not a lot of new info gleaned. She died aged 54 (could be 56, not v clear, but more likely 54) of consumption in Watford workhouse. Informant Sarah Knowles who was present at the death. Ann's occupation is 'wife of labourer'. One other interesting development...I've had an Ancestry DNA test and 'matched' with a chap in Australia, as possible 5th to 8th cousins, and his gt grandfather x 4 is Jesse Montague (referred to in my original post). I'm no expert in DNA, but is this sufficient to prove Jesse and William were brothers?? Or am I assuming too much? Thanks for any advice you are able to provide.