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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: StephenCND on Tuesday 13 June 17 20:36 BST (UK)

Title: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: StephenCND on Tuesday 13 June 17 20:36 BST (UK)
Greetings.  I am a first time poster, and delighted to find your site.
I have begun to research my family on my father's father side for a month or so. I knew almost nothing, but now am hip deep in distant Cousins, uncles aunts and so on!.  I have hit somewhat of a brick wall however, with my Great Great Grandfather, Stephen Pinder.  I cannot seem to find any information on his parents, if he had brother's or sisters, etc.  I did find a document pointing to a John Pinder being his father and a Mary Pinder, but I am not confident it's the same Stephen Pinder.   

This is the information I have been able to gather so far.
Date of Birth. Judging by British or Canadian census records, he was born anywhere between 1795 and 1806. Also, a "Yorkshire, Archbishop of York Marriage licences index" (Marriage to Mary Ann Coulson) has him born in 1810 while another one (Marriage to Mary Ann Clough, more on that further down), has him born in 1805.
His place of birth is listed as Kilham, and the Parish is Bridlington.
He married in 1835 a Mary Ann Coulson  (B1806 in North Burton, Yorkshire). The place of marriage  is listed as Saint John and Saint Martin,Beverley,York,England.  Together, they had 5 children + 1* (John, Matilda, Elizabeth, Maria & Bennison) + *1 =  Adelaide Clough . Adelaide seems to be the daughter of Mary Ann Clough. From a different father, or perhaps from Stephen Pinder prior to his marriage with Mary Ann Coulson? Other records have her born in Scotland.
He seemed to have resided in Rudston or Hilderthorpe till he emigrated to Ontario, Canada in the early 1850's.

Within the Coulson family tree, Mary Ann Coulson's grandfather, Stephen Bennison, married a Mary   Pinder . I thought there might be a link there somehow, and attempted to circle around via Mary, but I could not find anything on her as well. I also noticed a fair number of Pinders in the Rudston area, but again, could not come up with anything substantial. (Also the use of Bennison as a given name in the Pinder family is rather strange.. I suspect a link here).

If anyone has any information or could assist, I would be delighted to hear from you.

Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 13 June 17 21:49 BST (UK)
Hi

Welcome to RootsChat  :)

Stephen Pinder born Kilham on 5th December 1803 baptised 6th December 1803

Parents: John a yeoman and farmer and by Mary his wife.

Claire
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 13 June 17 21:55 BST (UK)

At Kilham

John Pinder a bachelor and yeoman married Mary Clark spinster both of Kilham on 24 October 1801 by licence.
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 13 June 17 22:07 BST (UK)

Other children of John & Mary Pinder baptised at Kilham

Elizabeth born 11 Dec. 1811 Bapt. 12 Dec. 1811

John born 14 June 1802 Bapt. 15 June 1802

Mary born and Bapt. 26 July 1809

Samuel Bapt. 4 March 1816

William born 5 Feb 1806 Bapt. 8 Feb 1806






Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 13 June 17 22:16 BST (UK)

From a transcript of the marriage licence issued to Stephen Bennison and Mary Pinder are these details

He was 40
She was 25
Both resident in Thwing.

Stephen Bennison bachelor married Mary Pindar both of the parish, by licence on 7 June 1783.

Claire

Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 13 June 17 22:39 BST (UK)

Possible Mary Bennison burial in Thwing suggests a birth year of 1761

Buried 20th Oct. 1844 aged 83.

Two baptisms stick out - one in Gt. Driffield 19 Dec. 1762 daughter of John Pinder.

The other in Kilham - 20th May 1761 daughter of John Pinder.

Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 14 June 17 01:11 BST (UK)
Together, they had 5 children + 1* (John, Matilda, Elizabeth, Maria & Bennison)

You have left out Mary who was born 1840.

PINDER, MARY
Mother's Maiden Name: COULSON
GRO Reference: 1840  M Quarter in BRIDLINGTON UNION  Volume 23  Page 20

1851 census

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG12-1KZ

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: StephenCND on Wednesday 14 June 17 11:52 BST (UK)
Blimey.. I want to thank you so much.. This is a great way to start the day.  I did come across the possibility that's Stephen's parents were a John and Mary, but had nothing to substantiate that information. Once again, thanks. Also, my suspicions about the name Bennison turned out to be true. Now I wonder if the Mary Pinder(ar) who married Stephen Bennison is from the same Pinder branch?


Oh, and yes, I forgot about Mary.. my bad.

This whole family exploration has been an incredible journey so far. I have been extremely fortunate to have in my possession some old family letters dating back to 1851. I never gave them much though, and everyone in the family pretty much forgot about them, sitting in a shoe box. They were faded, the writing difficult to read ... but they have become not only a source of information, but more importantly putting a human touch to the whole endeavor. These were remarkable people.
Well, I'm going on a bit too much here.. Lol  I cannot thank you both enough!

I will be back, I find your site remarkable.

All the best

Stephen Pinder
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Wednesday 14 June 17 12:24 BST (UK)

Glad we could help :)

Back to John Pindar - Stephens father. On the transcript of the marriage licence he was 48 years old - Mary his wife to be was 20 years younger. I'm wondering if he may have knocked a few years off this - it suggests a birth c1753.

There is a burial in Kilham on 3rd Dec. 1823 of a John Pindar aged 74 - birth year now 1749.

In Kilham in 1749 on 19th January a John Pindar was baptised to a JOHN Pindar.

If Mary Pindar who married Mr Bennison was born in Kilham 1761 - it's possible she was John Pindars sister :)
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: StephenCND on Tuesday 20 June 17 17:31 BST (UK)
New developments regarding John Pinder.   Came across a document pointing to a John Pinder. Died 1797 . Decided to take a chance and purchased a copy of the will.
Here are the key points and names quoted in document:
John Pinder of Kilham, York, Yeoman and farmer.
Wife Jane
Sons: John, William, Robert
Daughters: Jane Pinder,wife of Richard Gibson, Mary Pinder, wife of Stephen Bennison,  Ann Pinder.

So that confirms the link to Stephen Bennison and that Mary and John Pinder (Father of Stephen Pinder?)  are probably brother and sisters.

But I'm having issues with John's place of birth. Documents point to Snaith, Yorkshire, which is outside Kilham. So, I'm wondering if this John Pindar, who had a son called John Pinder, is the father of my Great-Great Grandfather, Stephen Pinder (B1803 - 1882). Or is there a record of birth of John Pinder in or arround Kilham, and that the Snaith record is for another John Pinder(ar)
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 20 June 17 19:19 BST (UK)
Hi

What does the document say that suggests a birth in Snaith? If you don't mind me asking.

Regarding John Kilham, the elder: I can see a baptism in Snaith in 1716, but I can also see a marriage license for 1748 whereby both parties are resident in parishes (Kellington & Knottingley) that are pretty close to Snaith too - but not to a Jane

Can you spot a marriage to a Jane ?
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: StephenCND on Tuesday 20 June 17 19:27 BST (UK)
No, the document makes no mention of a marriage in Snaith. That information is from a different search for John Pinder. Has nothing to do with the will.
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 20 June 17 20:05 BST (UK)

No - sorry, didn't explain myself. Does the Will say John Pinder was of / from Snaith ?

As you say Snaith is a fair way from Kilham
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: StephenCND on Tuesday 20 June 17 20:41 BST (UK)
No,the will does not say the marriage occurred in Snaith nor that he comes from Snaith.   He (John) in his Will, states he comes from Kilham.   https://1drv.ms/i/s!AifC60WL0cSMuVMy9fvXYNlWMbPo (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AifC60WL0cSMuVMy9fvXYNlWMbPo)

In addition to this John Pindar, there was another John Pinder, who died on the 24th of April, 1796 in Kilham.  His occupation was cordwainer (Shoe maker)  . Married to an Elizabeth Pinder. Father is listed as a Robert Pinder.  Curious to know who this Robert Pinder was.. A brother perhaps?   
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 20 June 17 21:45 BST (UK)
Hi

This John Pinder who was buried before 'your' John was an infant or child.

It reads

John, son of Robert Pinder, cordwainer, by Elizabeth his wife died 24 April buried....25th.

Robert : Not sure who he is - a burial in Kilham in the 1820's suggests a birthdate c1758.

Possibly a brother but then why not mentioned in the Will ? Possibly some relation.

Thankyou for letting me see the Will.

We know Stephens father John was born 1749 - but can't see his father yet in Kilham - although I have spotted a Jonathon - will have a proper look later - unfortunately I'm still working at the moment  :-\ ( well supposed to be ) :)

Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: StephenCND on Wednesday 21 June 17 12:28 BST (UK)
Hello Claire,

Curious to know how you determined this John who died in 1796 was an infant.
I'm cheating a bit right now, doing a bit of ancestry search at work.. will try to put aside some time to dive into this.
So, the question now is, where my John Pinder (D1797 in Kilham) was born (Kilham or Snaith), who his father was  and who this Richard is, and if there is any relationship.

Best regards,

Stephen
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Wednesday 21 June 17 13:00 BST (UK)
Hi Stephen

Robert & Elizabeth Pinder were baptising children in Kilham from 1787 - 1800. Their son John was baptised in 1789 - so was eight years old when he died.

Will check out this Robert - they had children John & Mary (plus an Ann 1797, Hannah & Bathsheba 1792, Elizabeth 1794 and Bridget 1800) it may suggest there could have been some familial connection to your family given their names.

EDIT: Just read through your transcription of the Will again - I should think that Robert  is the son mentioned in the Will. I have also seen a couple of marriages for two of the other siblings William and Ann in Kilham.

This looks to be the gravestone of possibly a brother or cousin of Stephens - a John Pinder
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Kilham/Graveyard/pinder0144.html


Claire
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: ..claire.. on Wednesday 21 June 17 18:28 BST (UK)
Children of John Pinder & Jane

John Bapt. 19 January 1749 ***Stephens father.

Ann Bapt. 15 December 1766

Jane Bapt. 30 April 1755

Mary Bapt. 10 May 1761***married Mr Bennison.

William Bapt. 29 Nov. 1753

Robert Bapt. 14 March 1758

There is a William who also baptised a child in the 1750's - possible sibling of John (whose birth we can't find)

Claire





Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: StephenCND on Friday 23 June 17 13:48 BST (UK)
Hello Claire,

Thanks once again for providing all this great information.

Regarding Robert Pinder (1758-1830) and Elizabeth (Fox) Pinder (1755-1832):

Robert was the son of John Pinder (1716-1797) and Jane (Beilby) Pinder (1725- ? )
They seem to have had the following children. Mary (1787-1791), John (1789-1796), Bathseba (1792-1792), Hannah (1792-1792), Elizabeth (1794 - ?) Ann (1797 - ?) Bridget (1800) whom married James Goodwill (1780-1832)
Regarding the John Pinder Headstone.

This Headstone was that of John Pinder, brother to Stephen Pinder, son of John Pinder (B1742) and Alice Leadley.
The headstone mentions 5 children born to John, which died in their infancy. I believe they are : Hannah (B1826 -1826), William (1830-1832), James (1837-1837) Hannah (1839-1839) Mary (1840-1841)
The headstone also mentions John's daughter, Elizabeth Binnington.  She married a Robert Binnington (B1827) of Pidsea, East Yorkshire. They married 25 November 1851 in Kilham.
Also, a son, Thomas is mentioned. It states he died in North America in 1866, but i'm finding census records that see to place in Brindlington until 1881 (past his stated year of death..)  So, clearly cannot be the same Thomas.. Am still looking into this.

So, the loose thread is John Pinder (1716-1797), where was he born, and who were his parents?  Maybe we have gone as far back as can be reasonably proven.
Title: Re: Stephen Pinder (B1797 or 1803)
Post by: StephenCND on Wednesday 14 March 18 18:31 GMT (UK)
I'm hitting a brick wall when it comes to Samuel Pinder. (Bapt. 4 March 1816).  Son of John Pinder (1749-1843 ) & Mary Clark (1773-    )Did he die at a young age?  I find no records whatsoever. Can anyone find anything on this individual?