RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Berkshire => England => Berkshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: robin40 on Wednesday 14 June 17 12:46 BST (UK)
-
I am trying to find out more about my grandfather - John Jackson. If possible, enough information to locate a birth certificate.
He lived at Westmead Farm until the late 1950's. Possibly 1955 or 1956, when the farm was sold and subsequently sub-divided for housing.
The 1939 Census shows John Jackson at Westmead Farm, Monks Lane. But the 1932 – 1938 OS maps appears to show a farm access from Newtown Road, so it could be either Monks Lane or Newtown Road.
I'm having trouble finding his birth certificate, because we don't know where he was born (and his father was also John Jackson, a common name!). We believe neither had middle names. He appears to have been born in ~1882 (possibly September)
I would like to find out when he came to own Westmead Farm ... did he inherit it, or purchase it?
Thanks
-
when and where did he die??
Who did he marry? Age at marriage?
father's occupation?
Witnesses?
May help to find his birth reg
Suz
-
I've a little more information:
1939 Census shows John Jackson at Westmead Farm, Monks Lane (as Poultry Farmer). This shows his date of birth as 27 Sept 1882.
Married on 29th September 1941 (aged 58) to Amy Elizabeth Minshull at the Newbury Register Office. Noted his father’s name was also John Jackson (deceased, no occupation). Witnesses were Amy Minshull's parents - Joseph and Elizabeth Minshull.
John Jackson (Jnr) was a widower when he (re)married, and occupation was Poultry Farmer. I've no details of the previous marriage.
Died 27th November 1956 in Reading.
Thanks for the help
-
Guess you already have his probate record
John Jackson 103 Cumberland Rd Reading died 27 Nov 1956 Probate Oxford 14 Feb to Charles Minshill maintenance painter & decorater & Albert John Fry coal merchant's manager Effects £2091 1s 3d
I forgot to ask do you have the names of any children of Johns before he married Amy Elizabeth?
Suz
-
Thanks - no I hadn't seen any probate information. Thats interesting, because Amy Elizabeth had a younger brother Charles. I've found the record on Ancestry, thanks.
Sorry no ... no information about children with his earlier wife.
I can't find a record of a John Jackson (Snr) in the Berkshire Probate records between 1882 (John Jackson Jnr born) and 1941 (noted to be deceased in John Jackson Jnr's marriage certificate.)
So John Jackson Jnr must have moved to Berkshire and bought the farm. Any idea how to find a Land Title index to check the deeds?
Thanks again, Robin
-
There is no central registry for title deeds - the Berkshire Record Office has some, but only a fraction of those that must have existed at one time. Old deeds are no longer needed to prove title once that title has been registered at the Land Registry - so many deeds have been destroyed.
Other holders of deeds are solicitors, though there have been some big clearouts over the years!
One place that might be worth checking would be the archives at St George's Chapel, Windsor - the chapel owned all that part of Newbury for a few hundred years (your chap may even have been their tenant).
-
Thanks - will check that lead. It's a good idea.
Putting the deeds aside, would it be possible to check the Land Registry register for details of when the property changed hands? If so, how would I go about finding the title number?
I'm also considering checking voting records for the property to see who was living there in the years prior to 1939 to see if I can see when it changed hands ... That would at least fill in some of the picture, but still no idea how to find his place of birth.
I'm struggling to find this address (West Mead Farm), or John Jacksons in this area the 1911 Census ... although that might be my error with the search engines.
Any more help appreciated! Thanks
-
The Land Registry was started in 1862 but its use was voluntary - so most didn't bother. IIRC it didn't really take of until the 1960s when registration was made compulsory when proporty changed hands - it has yet to cover all proporties. You can search the registry for a fee.
http://www.land-registry-deeds.co.uk/?gclid=CjwKEAjw4IjKBRDr6p752cCUm3kSJAC-eqRtU5g63aseFZN3LHxdyHFSqxlhwb2E-eJ3qBjLK08tLxoCnUXw_wcB (http://www.land-registry-deeds.co.uk/?gclid=CjwKEAjw4IjKBRDr6p752cCUm3kSJAC-eqRtU5g63aseFZN3LHxdyHFSqxlhwb2E-eJ3qBjLK08tLxoCnUXw_wcB)
-
OK thanks ... property records will probably be another dead end then.
My sister has found an old family tree sketch which shows some more information:
John Jackson (Jnr) - my Grandad - MAY have had Kate, Will and Ernest as siblings. And his parents were very probably John and Emma. No ages or dates, unfortunately.
I've tried those details in the Ancestry search and am still not finding a good match.
Any ideas appreciated. Thanks!
-
I have started a new topic in BERKSHIRE in order to post an image (not allowed on LOOKUP boards).
-
I have started a new topic in BERKSHIRE in order to post an image (not allowed on LOOKUP boards).
Link ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=773351.
-
Thanks - that's really helpful
-
Quote
"My sister has found an old family tree sketch which shows some more information:
John Jackson (Jnr) - my Grandad - MAY have had Kate, Will and Ernest as siblings. And his parents were very probably John and Emma. No ages or dates, unfortunately."
A possibility ????????????????
There is this marriage:
Sept Q 1877
Nantwich 8a 487
John Jackson
Emma Lewis
Marriage Details:
John Jackson
England, Cheshire Parish Registers
Name John Jackson
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 05 Jul 1877
Event Place St Paul, Crewe, Cheshire, England
Gender Male
Age (Formatted) 39y
Marital Status Widowed
Father's Name John Jackson
Spouse's Name Emma Lewis
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Father's Name William Lewis
Then in 1881:
Living at 42 Albert Street Grocers Shop
Head: John Jackson aged 51
Wife: Emma aged 24
Son: Ernest aged 2*****************************
Son: William aged 1*****************************
Births with mother's maiden name Lewis:
John Ernest Jackson June Q 1878 Nantwich 8a 371
William Jackson Mar Q 1880 Nantwich 8a 357
John Jackson Dec Q 1882 Nantwich 8a 331<<<<<<<<<<<Fits with birth of your John Jackson
Maggie Jackson Dec Q 1886 Nantwich 8a 333
Death:
Dec Q 1888
Nantwich 8a 218
John Jackson aged 59
2nd marriage for Emma:
Mar Q 1891
Nantwich 8a 517
Emma Jackson
John Merchant
1891 Emma and John Merchant are living in Coppenhall Monks Cheshire also living with them are her children Ernest, William John and Maggie jackson
1901 census still living in Albert Street Monks Coppenhall Cheshire
John Merchant Head M 36 Aberdovy, Monmouthshire
Emma Merchant Wife F 43 Newcastle, Staffordshire
Ernest John Jackson Step Son M 23 Crewe, Chester
William Jackson Step Son M 21 Crewe, Chester
John Jackson Son M 18 Crewe, Chester <<<<<<<<<<<Occ: Cab Driver
Maggie Jackson Step Daughter F 14 Crewe, Chester
Kate Merchant Daughter F 9 Crewe, Chester******************************
Henry Merchant Son M 8 Crewe, Chester
Lucy Grace Merchant Daughter F 6 Crewe, Chester
Edward Merchant Son M 5 Crewe, Chester
Frank Merchant Son M 1 Crewe, Chester
Birth reg with mother's maiden name Lewis
Kate Merchant sept Q 1891 Nantwich 8a 345
Henry Merchant Dec Q 1892 Nantwich 8a 333
Lucy Grace Merchant Sept Q 1894 8a 328
Edward Merchant June Q 1896 Nantwich 8a 343
Frank Merchant Mar Q 1900 Nantwich 8a 328
******************** the names you have given for John Jackson's siblings
Quote
"1939 Census shows John Jackson at Westmead Farm, Monks Lane (as Poultry Farmer). This shows his date of birth as 27 Sept 1882".<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Baptism: (birth date matches with 1939 Register)
John Jackson
England, Cheshire Parish Registers
Name John Jackson
Event Type Christening
Event Date 27 May 1883
Event Place , Coppenhall, Cheshire, England
Gender Male
Birth Date 27 Sep 1882<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Father's Name John Jackson
Mother's Name Emma
-
Guess you already have his probate record
John Jackson 103 Cumberland Rd Reading died 27 Nov 1956 Probate Oxford 14 Feb to Charles Minshill maintenance painter & decorater & Albert John Fry coal merchant's manager Effects £2091 1s 3d
I forgot to ask do you have the names of any children of Johns before he married Amy Elizabeth?
Suz
The will could mention any children he may have had by his first wife :-\ The people mentioned on the probate index are only the executors to the will
-
Aah! I see Amy Elizabeth Minshull was from Monks Coppenhall Cheshire, have you found her in the 1939 register?
The John Jackson above was still single in 1911 so 1st marriage was sometime after this census was taken.
Some more info on this Jackson family (just in case this turns out to be your ancestor):
On the marriage certificate of John & Emma Jackson (nee Lewis) in 1877 Emma was recorded aged 20, John was recorded aged 39 and a Labourer but in the 1881 census he is recorded as aged 51 (perhaps he lied about his age due to the fact that there was such a large difference in their ages), his father John Jackson was also recorded as a Labourer as was William Lewis. Both bride and groom were of the parish and both signed.
In the 1881 census John was recorded as a Grocer and born in Broxton Cheshire c1830)
Baptism for William Jackson 8/8/1880 records John as a Shopkeeper, Abode: Coppenhall
Baptism for John Jackson 27/5/1883 records John as a Grocer, Abode: Copppenhall
Baptism for Maggie Jackson 10/4/1887 records John as a Grocer, Abode: 37 Albert Street
Probate for John Jackson:
14/January 1889 The will of John Jackson late of Crewe inn the County of Chester who died 21st December 1888 at Crewe was proved at Chester by Emma Jackson of 37 Albert -street Crewe widow the Relict the sole Executrix
In the 1871 census living in Albert Street Coppenhall is this John Jackson:
https://tinyurl.com/y7c2j62f
then possibly the same John and Sarah Jackson in the 1851 census:
Near Huxley Mill Waverton Great Boughton Cheshire
Head: John Jackson aged 30 Farm Labourer (born Broxton Cheshire)<<<<<<<<<<<
Wife: Sarah Jackson aged 21 Labourer's wife (born Barton Cheshire)
Step-son: Thomas Evans aged 4 (born Huxley Cheshire)
<<<<<<<<<<matches with birth place of John Jackson on the 1881 census
Possible marriage for John and Sarah:
Place: Parish Church Tarvin Chester
Date:14th Sept 1846
Groom: John Jackson (Full Age) Bachelor, Labourer, Abode:Barton
Bride: Sarah Jones (Full Age) Spinster, Abode: Barton
Groom's father: John Jackson Labourer
Bride's father: Thomas Jones Labourer
Bride and Groom made their mark
Witnesses: Harriet Williams and John Davies
Possible death for Sarah:
Deaths Mar 1877
JACKSON Sarah Aged 54 Nantwich 8a 230
Marriages for John Jackson's sister Maggie
Place: St Paul Crewe
Date: 1st Aug 1908
Groom: Alfred Luke, aged 23, (Bat) Labourer, 65 Underwood Lane Crewe
Bride: Maggie Jackson aged 21 (Spin) Tailoress 51 Alfred Street Crewe
Groom's father: George Luke (deceased) Labourer
Bride's father: John Jackson (deceased) Labourer
Bride and Groom both signed
Witnesses: Edith Jones and Alfred Tomkins
Marriage for John Jackson's brother Ernest John:
Place: All Saints Weston Chester
Date: 14th Jan 1903
Groom: Ernest John Jackson, aged 24, (Bat) Coppersmith Abode: Weston
Bride: Alice Jane Brookshaw, aged 21, (Spin) Abode: Weston
Groom's father: Deceased
Bride's father: William Brookshaw (what looks like) worker at Crewe Hall
Bride and Groom both signed
Witnesses: Mary Robinson, George Henry Johnson and Mary J ?
A marriage possibility for John Jackson's brother William
Marriages Dec 1904
BRADSHAW Annie Elizabeth Nantwich 8a 631 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jackson Lily Nantwich 8a 631
Jackson William Nantwich 8a 631 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Welch George Nantwich 8a 631
-
This is fantastic - thank you so much!
I had followed a couple of similar leads, but was getting very stuck and this helps move me forward a lot.
Still no idea why/when they moved south to Newbury, and came to be poultry farmers... but nonetheless I think you're right and this does match with my mans side of the family which goes back a long way in Crewe.
Thanks again
-
Rosie99 - how would I go about getting a copy of a will?
-
And Candrjm, yes my nan (Amy Elizabeth) was living with my grandad in Newbury in the 1939 Census - pretty much where I started this journey.
The part from 1911 - 1939 is a mystery...
-
Rosie99 - how would I go about getting a copy of a will?
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills :)
-
Thanks!