RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: dtcoulson on Saturday 17 June 17 08:33 BST (UK)
-
Hello people,
I am ready to restart the Ada Smith search.
This has been discussed on at least two previous listings in Rootschat.
This is what is now known:
Birth date = Oct 18 1891 (Ramsgate Kent, parents known)
According to a letter from a relative (dead now),
'Aunty Ada' had a daughter named Ena 'still living' in Margate in 1994.
That's it.
I will be pleased if any of you can corroborate or destroy the theory that I have formed about Ada, based on data picked up from the 1939 register (and then FreeBMD)
In 1939 register:
Ada Hollis born Oct 18 1891, living in Oldbury with Herbert Hollis (born 1891) and 3 others.
By trial and error I have identified two of them as Edna Hollis & Jean Hollis.
Tracing back, I can find Ada Smith marrying Bertie Hollis in 1925.
Edna Hollis born 1930 & Jean Hollis born .. er .. 1927 I think. Both mms Smith.
The problem is that these births as well as the marriage of the proposed parents are all in different parts of the country. And I am relying on 'Edna' being mistaken as Ena later in life.
Bertie Hollis was born, married and died under that name, so listing him as 'Herbert' in 1939 is also a bit suspect. He was born and died in Chesterfield Derbyshire. So linking him to a daughter that lived in Margate is a bit tricky. Bertie died in 1965.
This is the best theory I can come up with. It works but it doesn't 'feel' right.
Can anyone fact-check the theory?
Thanks
David C
-
Taking birthdates of children on 1939 Register entry and finding birth entries, all are MMN Cooper so not yours.
Years of birth not the ones you mentioned
-
Ok thanks.
That was very fast and very efficient ;)
At least I know for sure.
Cheers
-DC
-
There are 3 Hollis ( mmn Smith ) births in Chesterfield :
Doreen Jun 1927
Wilfred B Jun 1940
Derick Jun 1929.
We can't give details of the 1939 register but if you search for Bertie Hollis in Chesterfield you can find this family. The birth year for Ada Hollis doesn't match what you have and I don't think she is your Ada .
-
I have been given only one clue as to what she did with her life:
She was said to be a singer at the Chelsea Barracks.
This would have to be sometime between 1910 and 1940.
A very outside possibility, with no Ena, and losing two years along the way?
Putting her 18 October d-o-b into the 1939 Register free index, +/- 2 years
In Wandsworth
Ada Hemson, born 1893
with
Victor P Hemson, born 1897
Georgina E Hemson (later Langley), born 1924
There is no Victor P Hemson
Birth in Sep qtr 1897, Chelsea
Philip Victor Hemson
Marriage in June 1923, Fulham
Philip V Hemson
Ada Smith
Birth, March 1924 Hammersmith
Georgina E Hemson - mother Smith
Ada died in Dec 1975, Wandsworth
Ada Hemson
d-o-b 18 Oct 1893
(died 11 November 1975, Probate)
Georgina married Arthur D F Langley, Sep 1943, Wandsworth
And died in Kent
Dec 2002, Thanet + Dover
Georgina Ethel Langley
d-o-b 8 Jan 1924
-
'Aunty Ada' had a daughter named Ena 'still living' in Margate in 1994.
Last known address of Georgina Ethel Langley may be in Highfield Gardens, Margate (2002)
Her husband's death -
Dec 2000 Thanet + Dover
Arthur David F Langley
d-o-b 18 Feb 1925
Could "Ena" be short for Georgina?
-
Brilliant jonw65 - sounds very good logic to me. Electoral rolls show Ada and husband living at 38 Upper Manor St, Chelsea in 1926 to 1930. They then move on to the address where Ada died - 6 Shelbrook Street, Wandsworth from 1931. Husbands name varies between Philip Victor or Victor Philip.
Since Ada Smith would have been some 6 years older than her husband one can understand why she knocked a couple of years off her age.
And 'Ena' being a pet name of Georgina makes sense plus she was living in Margate per 2002 electoral roll. I note she appears to be their only child.
Only the marriage certificate of Ada Smith and Philip V Hemson can confirm if this is indeed the case but feel sure you have 'cracked it'.
Annette
-
.... and that's where I step back in.
Interesting theory Jonw65.
I am not so convinced as you and Annette are that the compromises made (changing birth year and changing Georgina's name) are justified, but if you all think it's worth the bet I will order the marriage cert.
(and raise a toast to your talent if you are right,
because I have been looking for this ancestor's
life story a very long time, as some of you will know).
Note that it takes a month for a GRO cert to reach my home in NZ.
In the meantime I will be happy to read further discussion on this theory.
Are there other resources we can tackle that would add to the picture?
-DC
-
Hi
I'm not really sure that there is anything much else that would help. You could go through their electoral register entries if you can. Just in case there might ever have been a relative of Ada's living at the same address, whichever one it was.
I think it's an idea that started out as quite a long shot, but when you think about it begins to look more promising. Annette has made some good points, Ada had a younger husband and may have fibbed a little about her age, and there is no sign they had more than the one daughter (and you know only of Ena for your Ada)
I googled the two names, Georgina + Ena, and up came quite a number of examples of people around the world called Georgina, who apparently were, or even are, known as Ena! Not something I would ever have thought of myself, but good news for us.
If you do get that particular marriage certificate, I wish you the very best of luck and will keep fingers crossed, but you can certainly continue to look at other possibilities. So many Ada Smiths!
John
-
I looked for the name Hemson in the wedding guest/gift list for Alfred Gooch Smith (Ada's brother) who married in Sept 1937 (reported in newspaper). The name does not appear.
Have been wondering about the fate of Philip Victor Hemson. If he died young - not hard to do in WW2 - Ada may have remarried. But that of course conflicts with the death record you found for Ada Hemson.
I have not ordered a marriage cert before.
What sort of data might I expect to find on it that would complete the proof?
(Thinking of father's name perhaps, or maybe the location of her birth?)
-DC
-
Familysearch gives life of Philip Victor Hemson thus:
Birth 21 May 1897, Chelsea London
Death Jan 1989 Wandsworth. (same location as Ada in 1795)
-DC
-
On the marriage certificate you will get her age, marital condition, possibly an occupation, address, and most importantly her father's name and occupation. And of course the names of the witnesses, who may or may not be related.
The death cert in 1975, other than the cause of death, etc, will give her maiden name, and also the date and place of birth. Accuracy of those important bits of info depends on the knowledge of the informant. Which is likely to have been her husband, since you have found that he died after Ada. As you know, we already have the date of birth on the cert as it is also given in the death index. And it's two years out of course.
As her father had distinctive forenames, which is fortunate given the surname, the marriage certificate should be enough to tell you whether it's the right Ada or not.
John
-
Thanks John,
marriage certs come from the UK GRO, same as for birth & death certs?
-DC
-
Below is what you would expect to see on an English or Welsh marriage cert,yes all obtained from the GRO site.
http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/marriages.htm
Carol
-
I've just joined the site and found a query relating to my grand parents, Ada and Victor Philip Hemson. I am intrigued and would quite happily provide a much wider insight into their lives and the family subsequently.
I am wondering what relative made the inquiry in the first place? Was it someone related to Ada's siblings who all grew up in Kent?
Please contact me if you wish to know more.
Familysearch gives life of Philip Victor Hemson thus:
Birth 21 May 1897, Chelsea London
Death Jan 1989 Wandsworth. (same location as Ada in 1795)
-DC
-
Hello Nicholls49 & welcome to rootschat :).
dtcoulson, who started this thread, should get notification that you have posted. He/she may reply on this thread to give their relationship. A couple of other threads are mentioned. Here are the links.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=764797.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=772557.msg6257253#msg6257253
As you probably know, we do not mention the names of living people on rootschat or give email addresses on this public forum. To do that, you can send a personal message off forum. Once you have made 2 more postings [just reply twice to this thread] you can send a personal message [PM] to dtcoulson who started it. You can do this by clicking on their name or by clicking on the text icon under their name.
-
I just saw this and will attempt to PM Nicholls49 shortly. (after breakfast)
-DC
-
I just saw this and will attempt to PM Nicholls49 shortly. (after breakfast)
-DC
Nicholls 49 Needs to post twice more here before she/he can receive PM's.
-
B*&^%%^& !
Any suggestions on how I can contact this person?
Thinking I should wait for a reply here and give my email when the time comes.
-DC
-
B*&^%%^& !
Any suggestions on how I can contact this person?
Thinking I should wait for a reply here and give my email when the time comes.
-DC
I think that is exactly what you will have to do is have a little patience !!! ;D
-
hehe can do
;D
-
Let's hope that Nicholls49 is signed up to be notified of all comments made here and comes back soon!
-
Carol, are you also related from your time in Kent in 1950-1960’s?
Let's hope that Nicholls49 is signed up to be notified of all comments made here and comes back soon!
Let's hope that Nicholls49 is signed up to be notified of all comments made here and comes back soon!
Hi, being new to the site I wasn’t totally on board with regular protocols.
Also looking deeper into all previous posts I think you must be related to my Gran’s siblings. I know she had one who went to New Zealand, Maud in 1913 according to info by mother Ena passed on to me.
Also her cousin Ernie had also told me he was in touch with that aspect of the family.
I assume that you are also a grandchild from the original Kent based GoochSmith family?
Does that give you a better understanding of my involvement in all of this?
quote author=dtcoulson link=topic=773441.msg6540318#msg6540318 date=1532067282]
B*&^%%^& !
Any suggestions on how I can contact this person?
Thinking I should wait for a reply here and give my email when the time comes.
-DC
[/quote]
-
Welcome back Nicholls49 ;D
I'm sure DTCoulson will be here again soon,and now you have replied you have opened up the Personal Messaging system so you can talk to each other off the boards and exchange family info and email addresses.
I am not related to this family,just trying to help with info.
Carol
-
Also looking deeper into all previous posts I think you must be related to my Gran’s siblings. I know she had one who went to New Zealand, Maud in 1913 according to info by mother Ena passed on to me.
Also her cousin Ernie had also told me he was in touch with that aspect of the family.
I assume that you are also a grandchild from the original Kent based GoochSmith family?
Does that give you a better understanding of my involvement in all of this?
-DC
[/quote]
So, I am longing to know, was Ena a short form / pet name?? Of Georgina? Or maybe Doreen?
Or don't we know yet?
-
Thanks Carol.
Quote author=carol8353 link=topic=773441.msg6540355#msg6540355 date=1532072533]
Welcome back Nicholls49 ;D
I'm sure DTCoulson will be here again soon,and now you have replied you have opened up the Personal Messaging system so you can talk to each other off the boards and exchange family info and email addresses.
I am not related to this family,just trying to help with info.
Carol
[/quote]
-
Also looking deeper into all previous posts I think you must be related to my Gran’s siblings. I know she had one who went to New Zealand, Maud in 1913 according to info by mother Ena passed on to me.
Also her cousin Ernie had also told me he was in touch with that aspect of the family.
I assume that you are also a grandchild from the original Kent based GoochSmith family?
Does that give you a better understanding of my involvement in all of this?
-DC
So, I am longing to know, was Ena a short form / pet name?? Of Georgina? Or maybe Doreen?
Or don't we know yet?
Ena was the shortened form of mum’s name Georgina. Her middle name was Ethel after Gran’s younger sister whom she was very close to.
[/quote]
-
You'll get so much help & information here, Nicholls49. It's the most wonderful forum & I'm pleased you found us!!
As Carol says you can use the PM system to exchange email addresses, names of living people etc; we do like that any other useful information to do with the thread is on the board so that we see how the query resolves.
-
Also
So, I am longing to know, was Ena a short form / pet name?? Of Georgina? Or maybe Doreen?
Or don't we know yet?
Ena was the shortened form of mum’s name Georgina. Her middle name was Ethel after Gran’s younger sister whom she was very close to.
[/quote]
Excellent. Thank you. :)
-
Hello Nicholls49.
You have nicely confirmed that Ena is short for Georgina and that Ada Smith - her mother - became Ada Hemson. That was all conjecture until you confirmed it, though confidence was high that it was the right answer. Thanks.
As everyone else has pointed out, Rootschat is an amazing place to share and support research. I have had incredible assistance over the years from some very smart and very skilled people.
You surmised correctly that I am related to you through the Ramsgate Smith clan. Maud Smith, whom you mentioned, did migrate to NZ and I am her grandson.
I have sent you my email link on Personal Message. On the bar at the top of the HOME screen look for 'personal messages' or similar. The experts will guide you if necessary.
For those that are curious, my grandmother (Maud) married a former soldier in 1911 or thereabouts. A year or so later he was sent out to NZ on a work contract as he was a specialist in window glazing or something similar. He expected to be in the country only a few years, but war broke out and made it impossible for him to get back. Since he had once been a rifleman for the army, he was asked to train the Kiwi volunteer soldiers in the use of firearms. On a night exercise in damp conditions he contracted a severe flu and died as a result, leaving Maud and her four very young children to fend for themselves. She wanted to return to England but travel was impossible during the war years. How she survived financially I don't know, but life was very hard for her during those years. Even after the war she had no money for a return journey. Maud met and married a Kiwi fellow in the early 1920s and accepted that she would be staying in NZ for the rest of her days. They had two children to join the four step-siblings. My mother was the younger of these two. My mother always planned to take her mother back to England to visit the brothers and sisters that she had exchanged letters with regularly, but then events changed all of that. My mother met my dad in 1951 and had to choose between taking her mum home to England and investing in her own children. Sadly, Maud's return to England was delayed to the point where she was too old ever to make the journey. In 1964, at a very advanced age, she developed an illness that I have no name for and which caused her to be warded in hospital for the last of her days. I knew her only as the grandmother that we would visit occasionally in the hospital and who would sing songs gently with my father in the absence of things to talk about. She died in 1976.
My mother took up writing to her cousins in England many years later and my sister finally pushed her into making a visit about ten years ago. She was well received by the children of the Smith family and exchanged photos and letters. Since then a few people have died and the trade of letters has ceased. However I have been in contact myself through the internet with a small number of people my age who are the grandchildren of the Smiths, so we may have a lot to talk about when Nicholls49 contacts me via email.
Thanks again, Rootschat people.
-DC