RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Shiny1 on Sunday 18 June 17 13:59 BST (UK)
-
Hi All,
I've been asked about a bit of a family puzzle and don't know where to start.
Two maiden aunts lived at 163 Grey Street in North Shields. The story goes that the house was bought outright but no one really knows or can understand where the money came from to do that or even when it happened. Is there a way of finding that sort of information?
There names were Edith Harrison (1883 - 1973) and Lily Harrison (1879-1953) if that helps any and they were both still living with their parents in 1911 so the house was bought sometime between 1911 and 1953.
Thanks a lot,
Michael
-
If the sisters owned the house it would probably have been mentioned in a Will. Have you looked to see if either sister left a Will?
https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate
-
You could try HM Land Registry but I don't think it was obligatory to register land and property at that particular time.
-
From the Shields Daily News - Tuesday 21 June 1904
-
Am a bit rusty on research now but Local Government Registers for the area could/should show whether a person was entitled to vote, and on what basis (i.e. property owning). In 1918 women over 30 could vote if they owned property.
-
Fron the Shields Daily Gazette - Tuesday 28 June 1904
-
If you have a look on google maps, the houses on Grey St are very modest.
-
See http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/163-grey-street/north-shields/ne30-2eh/14916855
Stan
-
Have you looked to see where the ladies are living in 1939 ;)
There is always the possibility that they rented it to start with then bought it so proof of residence would not necessarily mean proof of ownership :-\
-
Thanks a lot for the help everyone, that all really helps a lot.
Edith hasn't left a will but Lily has. She died first but rather than leaving anything to her sister that she was living with she left all her money (£370) to her older brother Edward.
Interestingly Edward was left £995 to share with his brother Alfred by their dad in October 1915. I'm now putting 2 and 2 together and probably coming up with 22, but given that the newspaper cuttings mention £300 in 1904 I'm now wondering if Edward lent them £370 to buy the house and that was her repaying the debt?
I haven't looked at the 1939 register properly, that will be a job for the library next weekend, but the preview shows that she and Lily are at the same address so I suspect that they are in there by then.
I'm also going to have a look at the electoral roll when I go to the library so I should hopefully get some answers about when they moved in, if Edith stayed there the whole time after Lily died and then what happened to it when Edith died.
Thanks again for all the help,
Michael
-
Interestingly Edward was left £995 to share with his brother Alfred by their dad in October 1915.
Do you have a copy of this will as the probate calendar mentions that Edward & Albert are the executors which does not mean that they inherited the £995.17 :-\
-
Ahh, traps for new players!
No I don't, I thought it meant they got the money.
Michael
-
Ahh, traps for new players!
No I don't, I thought it meant they got the money.
Michael
No it just means that Edward and Alfred were granted the legal right to sort out the estate and distribute it according to their father's wishes in his will.
The same with Lily's will, unless you have seen it, it just means that Edward was granted probate to sort things out. So Edith may have inherited.
-
OK, thanks a lot
-
On the 1939 register Removed
Street directories
1915-1916 Mrs E Wallace 163 Grey St
1921 this address not in this directory
1936 Mrs J Harrison 163 Grey St, North Shields
Gen in NBL UK
Moderator comment: 1939 details removed. You may only post information from a free search.
-
Thanks very much for the help, I managed to get a look at the voters lists in the library today and have found that Edith was registered to vote there until 1969.
There appears to be a family called Kerr in there after them.
I am now wondering about the Mrs J Harrison that was there in 1936. Could it be that another family member owned the house and passed it on.
I haven't found anyone who fit's that name yet however I do have a few men who's wives aren't known to me yet and there ages would mean it could be them. More digging to do I think.
Thanks for the help,
Michael
-
Mrs J Harrison, think more in terms of their husbands names, Mrs John/Jacob/Jack ????? Harrison. That's how married women were often referred to in the past.
Or the most obvious question, what was their mother called?
Gen in NBL UK
-
Mother was Jane Harrison - when did she die
Could this be her :-\
Jane Harrison
Death Registration Dec qtr 1937
Age at Death 85
Reg dist Newcastle upon Tyne
-
Thanks for the help everyone.
Jane Harrison suffered from dementia in her later life. She wandered away from home and on the 31st of October 1928 was found dead in a field at the Rising Sun near North Shields so her date of death is fairly certain. Unfortunately that means the lady Rosie99 found isn't her.
As a side note, Jane is a bit of a mystery, her maiden name was Bailey although she may also be Jane Briley born 12 Dec 1948 in Stockton workhouse. Her name keeps changing and her birth certificate, which I've seen, has no father's details recorded on it.
Jane was a very secretive person who cut herself off from her family when she married Robert (possibly to hide being born in the workhouse??). No one knows why she did this but Jane Alice Harrison said that when she was a child some of her mothers family called unexpectedly one Sunday and were sent away and never came back.
Jane Alice married in 1908 so would have been Mrs J Beavers by the date we are interested in so it couldn't be her either.
Michael
-
That was sad to hear about Jane wandering with dementia and dying alone. :'(
Are the electoral registers for around 1936 available to view, they should give a first name for Mrs J Harrison where the street directory only shows initials.
-
My internet connection is horrible today so I can't open the image for this article from the British Newspapers on FMPast:
31st ult, Jane, beJoved wile of the late Robert Harrison. Interment at Preston Cemetery Thursday, leaving residence. 163 Grey Street, at 2.45 p.m. for service Christ Church. All mends kindly Invited. , . November 2, 1927 - Shields Daily News - Tynemouth, Tyne and Wear, England
....
Maureen
-
OH! Just realised that your Jane died in 1927 not 1928.
So someone in the family was living at 163 Grey Street in 1927.
Maureen
-
Rosie I'll have a look when I can get into the library, I think they do hold the registers for the 30's.
Maureen I've had a look at the newspapers on FindMyPast that you mentioned. I'm going to speak to Jane's grand daughter again to try and double check the dates, that's a huge coincidence if it's not her, particularly the story about her going missing although I believe it did happen more than once.
Michael
-
This is what I found in other trade/postal directories today.
1915 - Mrs E Wallace - 163 Grey St, NS
1921 - Robert Harrison, 27 Dockwray Square NS
1925 Kellys - Robert Harrison, 27 Dockwray Square, NS
1929 - nothing in that one
1932 Wards - Mrs J Harrison 163 Grey St, NS
1938 Wards - Robert Harrison, butcher,147 West Percy St NS
1938 Wards - Mrs J Harrison, 163 Grey St, NS
1940 Wards - Mrs J Harrison, 163 Grey St, NS
1960s Blairs - no entry for 163 Grey St just the neighbours.
They didnt have any other directories for the North Shields area on any other relevant dates.
Gen in NBL UK