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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Simsam on Friday 23 June 17 07:36 BST (UK)

Title: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Simsam on Friday 23 June 17 07:36 BST (UK)
Do you think these two pictures are young and old photos of the same person? The older woman is my great-grandmother Louisa Phyllis Humfrey (1877-1968). She spent two years in South Africa teaching in about 1898. The photo of the younger woman was taken in South Africa at about that time I think. What I don't know is whether it is a picture of her or maybe of a friend she made while there. This may be an impossible question to answer, but I thought I'd ask anyway!
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Handypandy on Friday 23 June 17 11:54 BST (UK)
This doesn't prove anything.... but there is no denying the possibility.
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 23 June 17 14:20 BST (UK)
My first instinct is to say not the same person but there are a lot of years between the photos which makes it difficult.  Lighter iris in the eyes on the older lady is all I can come up with.
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Simsam on Friday 23 June 17 14:42 BST (UK)
Thanks. I would like it if they were the same person but I'm inclined to agree that they're not. I'm going to look for other pictures and see if that helps.
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 23 June 17 14:57 BST (UK)
I don't think they're the same person either.  :)
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: KitCarson on Friday 23 June 17 16:36 BST (UK)
I don't think that it's the same person.  Can't really see the ears properly in the older photo to compare, but I don't think the chin is the same.  Kit
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 07 July 17 15:31 BST (UK)
I don't think they are the same person..the nose is entirely different shape. You have a lovely collection of photos
Carol
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Friday 07 July 17 16:25 BST (UK)
No - two very different shaped faces.
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Simsam on Friday 07 July 17 18:43 BST (UK)
Thanks. I see that really. It was just wishful thinking!
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 07 July 17 20:01 BST (UK)
Did you also see the responses to your other posts  ::)
Carol
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Simsam on Friday 07 July 17 21:23 BST (UK)
Hi Carol, yes I have thanks. I'm very grateful for all the responses. 
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Simsam on Friday 07 July 17 21:43 BST (UK)
I've also found a different confirmed picture of Louisa Phyllis Humfrey, the older lady in the two pictures. I'm quite sure the younger one isn't her.

Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: stsearcher on Saturday 08 July 17 01:16 BST (UK)
I might be the only one, but I think it is the same person.
They both seem to have the same mouth and nose and if you account for lack of teeth it would explain the less elongated face.
She has an unusual crease on the inner corner of her eye and it appears in the younger photo that it may be there are well (maybe it is just a mark on the photo).
However, I could be wrong  ;)
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: sharpeassoc on Monday 31 July 17 02:07 BST (UK)
Have you tried to run a facial recognition program on them?  That is pretty accurate.  I can put a photo of me in now (over 70) and one when I was 16 and it knows it's me.
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Dulciebun on Sunday 10 February 19 20:02 GMT (UK)
If it's not too late to make comment, I'd say we are looking at the same person here, taking into account the changes Time inevitably makes to a person's skin, hair etc. It feels right, to me. Have you had any further thoughts on this? x
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 11 February 19 05:40 GMT (UK)
I'm jumping in late here as well .... I think they are two different people. Two features that I notice in particular are: the nostrils are a different shape and so is the top lip, particularly comparing the photo of the younger girl and middle aged Louisa.  :)
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Simsam on Monday 11 February 19 07:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Ruskie, Dulciebun, thank you both for the late replies! I haven't moved much further forward but I think that they are different people, mainly because the confirmed photos from later years both show a shorter nose. It's a bit of a shame but never mind.

I was really surprised coming into all this that none of the old carte de visite photo companies' customer records have seemingly survived. I'd dearly love to be able to tap the number into a search field and get the ID back! 
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Dulciebun on Monday 11 February 19 09:56 GMT (UK)
I'm interested by this, because (although I can't possibly know), the 2 ladies 'feel' the same to me. People have commented on the nose, saying it's conclusively different... hmm. In the older lady, I can see a rather strange crease right across the top of the nose, almost as if there's been a bad injury there which has been fixed up, and the skin hasn't found a way to make it neat. Noses are made of cartilage, not bone, and their shape can change (or BE changed, or repaired) quite radically.

I'm an artist and I study and draw faces, they fascinate me.

The younger woman has her chin right down, to look at the camera, which will always make the nose appear longer. 

Lips change over time, they lose their plumpness and become a straight line in old age, so there's little point in saying the lips aren't the same. When the lips get thinner, the distance between nose and top lip gets wider.

Do you know if your relative might have been injured, facially, at any point? Accidents happen, wars happen...

Dulciebun x
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 11 February 19 10:56 GMT (UK)
I can see a rather strange crease right across the top of the nose, almost as if there's been a bad injury there which has been fixed up, and the skin hasn't found a way to make it neat.
The younger woman has her chin right down, to look at the camera, which will always make the nose appear longer. 

Do you know if your relative might have been injured, facially, at any point? Accidents happen, wars happen...

Dulciebun x

It's a deep wrinkle across the bridge of the nose, not an injury - some people get wrinkles/frown lines in that area. Not unusual.


The younger woman has her chin right down, to look at the camera, which will always make the nose appear longer. 
Dulciebun x

It is the width of the nose and the shape of the nostrils that differ.

Lips change over time, they lose their plumpness and become a straight line in old age, so there's little point in saying the lips aren't the same. When the lips get thinner, the distance between nose and top lip gets wider.
Dulciebun x

Yes, lips do thin over time, but the whole area from the top lip to the nose in the young girl is a different shape and more protruding than Louisa's lip area.
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Dulciebun on Monday 11 February 19 11:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Ruskie! Thanks for your helpful input.
It's really useful to chat like this, isn't it, and I learn a lot too.

I'm 61 years old. I've just measured the width of my nose in a photo from my 20s, and I can see that my nose is now about 6 mm wider than it was in my youth. Interesting. My nostrils are wider and longer, too.
Physical features can thicken out, with age, with fat, or increased muscle. (e.g. my waist is very much bigger!!)

Certainly, I can see differences in the 2 photos posted up here. But somehow it still 'feels' like the same individual, you know, from a human point of view; it's like how you can still recognise your cousin when you haven't seen them for 40 years, and they've completely changed shape. A human connection, which no machine or computer could make.

I don't know the answer to this, but I think we should keep talking.

Dulciebun x

Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: ChesterCross on Sunday 05 July 20 17:43 BST (UK)
An update to this thread. I have this photo of her a bit younger (taken from a Chester History page on Facebook) I also did an article for the Friends of the Meadows newsletter in 2018 - the 50th anniversary of her death (and 100 years since women got the vote)
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Dulciebun on Sunday 05 July 20 19:29 BST (UK)
Same person, yes. I go by the eyes.
Same lady, young and old. x
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: DanNC on Sunday 05 July 20 19:33 BST (UK)
I'm looking at the ears. The lobes look different in the two younger pictures. The woman with the hat has a rounded lobe and the other young woman has a lobe with a different shape. The eyes and eyebrows don't look simliar to me, either. Frankly, I don't see much of any similarity between them. (I'm not including the older woman. Pictures 2 and 3 are clearly the same woman.)

That and £10 will get you a good cup of coffee in central London.   ;D
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Ian Nelson on Sunday 05 July 20 22:35 BST (UK)
I vote the same person
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 05 July 20 22:54 BST (UK)
The latest photo posted is confirmation that you have photos of two different people.

I see virtually no similarities between the two.

I neglected to mention in earlier replies, that the eyes are glaringly different. Louisa’s eyes are pale and round in shape. The young girl’s eyes are almond shaped and possibly dark in colour (though that is inconclusive due to lack of detail in the old photo).

So you have three photos of Louisa at various ages, and one photo of someone else.  :)
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Gadget on Monday 06 July 20 08:02 BST (UK)
I'm not sure how I missed this but I'll add my thoughts now.

I don't think the younger person is the same as the others because the eyes, nose and mouth and hair growth around the forehead/temple area are all different.

Gadget
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: Ian Nelson on Monday 06 July 20 11:17 BST (UK)
With the addition of the 3rd photo for comparison I no longer think the youngest picture is the oldest lady. ::)
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: emeraldcity on Monday 06 July 20 15:09 BST (UK)
The facial shape is just too different for it to be the same person imo.
Title: Re: Young and old pictures, but of the same person? (Louisa Phyllis Humfrey)
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 06 July 20 17:38 BST (UK)
and just to add my two penn'orth, the middle and right hand photos are of the same lady.

the left hand photo is of someone different.  For me the shape of the earlobe is completely different (and quite distinctive) in the youngest woman.