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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Ann E on Tuesday 27 June 17 11:47 BST (UK)
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After many years search I found John Taylor [from letter] left "Canada from Montreal by SS Numnidian Allan line Nov 2nd 96 Army reserve steerage" I have his arrival how do I find his departure? I am looking to see where he was living.
His British army records transferred to Canada, looks like from 1892, - 1895 he served 4 years 15 days, he rejoined 9 Nov1899 -23 Sep 1901, he was an 1st class orderly on his records is
"LIEUT-COLONEL A.M.S 16th COY- .M.S. CORPS. merchant" ?
Any with knowledge of Canadian Army
Thank you,
Ann
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Ann
The record is of part of your man's British service.
It is (British) Medical Staff Corps and the signature looks like E (Edmond) Townsend Lieutenant Colonel Army Medical Staff. In the faded signature he writes Surgeon Lieutenant Colonel which was his full rank.Your man was a hospital cook and later orderly.
Do you have his record (8145 Private John Taylor Medical Staff Corps). He was in Canada from 1883 to 1888, served in the British army until 1895, returned to Canada but came back to UK in 1896 because his brother was ill. Rejoined the British Army in 1899 and served until 1901. There is no record of him returning again to Canada.
maxD
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Thank you MaxD, that is helpful.
I do have John's service, how do I find out where John was in Canada? on his passenger list Nov 2nd 96 he was an Army reserve, what army?
would the Canadian passenger departure give more info?
Ann
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The reserve bit relates to his British service. He had signed on in 1888 for a total of twelve years, 3 years active and 9 on the reserve. He later changed to 7 years active and (although it doesn't spell it out on his record) leaving 5 years on the reserve. Whatever, he was committed until 1900 to recall in the event of mobilization so in 1896 he was still in the middle of the reserve element.
I had looked at where he could have been in Canada from 1883-1888 and then from 1895-1896 without any success, there are no real clues (and he missed the censuses!). The letter from the Canadian Veterans Allowance Board in 1939 just quotes John Taylor as saying "resided continuously " [83-88] without saying where and "was employed in Canada" when in 1899 he was recalled to the colours [in UK]. That last bit doesn't quite add up as he left Canada in 1896 because of his brother's illness and it doesn't look as if he went back to Canada in the 96-99 period.
His 1896 letter is obviously to some Canadian authority to whom he is "sending in his papers". The British reply to Canada refers to this as "writing to his Corps" as if this was the British he was writing to, I don't read his letter like that. My reading is that he was a member of a local militia somewhere but the Canadian Archives are quite clear that to find a record of a militia man you need to know the regiment, and there were a multitude!
The 1896 voyage back to UK gives us no further info than you have. It may be that further digging into travel records may help, I'll dig around later.
For the moment, perhaps you'd see what you think about my interpretations above.
maxD
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Thank you MaxD
As you say things don't add up, in John Military History Sheet
Home 88 -99. South Africa, 99 - 01. Home 20. 9. 01 - 23. 9.01. no mention of Canada, ?
I cant find John in the 1911 census, as yet, he was not with his siblings or mother & stepfather. His brother who was ill was Edward he was discharged at Netley on the 8.1.89 as medically unfit Ague [malaria] he had been suffering from 1.10.87, address 23 Warrick St Ryde.
Edward joined the army as he was due in court as being the putative father of an illegitimate female child
Thank for your Help
Ann
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Ann
I had wanted to edit my post before you read it but the need for sleep intervened! On reflection, I think the letter he wrote from Canada was to the British authorities, how else would it end up in his documents? Doesn't change anything though.
The seeming peculiarity in his service history comes about as a vagary of the army records system.
As far as the army was concerned, it recorded both active and reserve service as if he was always serving throughout. He wasn't serving in Canada so the bit between active and 99 had to go down as Home. It does seem from the letters as if he had requested and received permission to go to Canada while on the reserve. Again changes nothing.
Re 1911. the letter from the Canadian authorities quotes him as saying he returned to Canada in 1901 and he was obviously there in 1939 when he turned to them for help. Have you looked in the Canadian censuses (I don't have worldwide access to Ancestry)?
Haven't looked properly at travel yet!
maxD
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More. I have found a possible for John Taylor of the right age travelling on his own to Canada, leaving Liverpool on 10 October 01 on the "Australian" which arrived Montreal 22 Oct 01 showing his final destination as Shakespeare Ontario. There are some Ontario (not Shakespeare) candidates in the 1911 census but none that give a 1901 arrival (but most don't quote the arrival).
In 1883, the ship "Polynesian" carried a ship load of Barnardo's children to Quebec. Among them was a 14 year old John Taylor. I had thought 14 was a young age to be going unless he was part of a family but as a Barnardo's boy it makes sense. Although their destination was shown as Quebec, they presumably could have gone anywhere. If it fits this might be a place to start? http://canadianbritishhomechildren.weebly.com/barnardo-home-records.html.
maxD
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Thank you MaxD
You said "
the letter from the Canadian authorities quotes him as saying he returned to Canada in 1901 and he was obviously there in 1939"
I haven't seen that letter? have I missed one, I only have one letter!
Records for Canada,
Library and Archives Canada [http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Pages/home.aspx (http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Pages/home.aspx) ]
Census Year: 1911 [http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1911/Pages/1911.aspx (http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1911/Pages/1911.aspx)]
I have search some of the 1911, but as I don't know where living :(
Ann
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Ann
I assumed when you said earlier that you had his service records that you had all the records relating to him. We need to review what you have, I'll send a PM.
maxD
I have no problem finding the Canadian archive material, that's where I've been looking at travel information and censuses.
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Thank you again I have 4 Army documents + 1 letter.
Ann
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Send me your direct email in reply to my PM and I'll complete the picture.
maxD
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Hi Ann,
Unfortunately, Canada didn't maintain passenger departure lists.
What were the names of his parents, and his step-father? When was brother Edward's death?
Cheers,
DB (land of the round door knobs ;D)
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Hi dbree,
Thank you, Johns mother was Charlotte Riddett she married in1860 Carisbrooke Isle of Wight to James Taylor a pvt in the 45 of Reg Parkhurst Barracks 26 February 1860.
The moved to Sheffield where Samuel, John & Edward were born t.
James their father died there 23 Feb 1870 age 47, Charlotte returned to IOW.
She married Robert Collinson 28 .12,1871, that didn't last long [a complicated story]
Charlotte remarries again calling herself Annie to Edward Leal a mariner 1879.
I have countless newspaper cuttings on the family, "the attendance officer, showed that of 130 attendances the John had made only 11.on 7 Aug 1878" :o .It looks like he did OK in the Army.
I haven't yet found Edward death, until I found his Army records I thought he may have gone abroad.
Ann
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I am still looking for marriage for John, I found this? when his sister married she said father given name was John James, her mother -in- law who was also her great aunt was a CHIVERTON may be there was a mix up John & his siblings were very young when their father died.
Phillip GUNN was a witness & John Taylor was at the same address.
I found Phillip GUNN in Toronto directory of 1921 at 233 Niagara St. I also found a transcript of 1911 census on Family search, I haven't as yet found John.
see signature of John marriage & army record
Ann E
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Hi Ann,
Well done :) with the signatures, they do look very similar.
I did see the marriage with mother's name of Chiverton, and father John, but dismissed it.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939K-TP9S-TV?i=85&cc=1784216
1921 Canadian census, Fertile Valley, Kindersley, Saskatchewan
Taylor, John, age 52, b. England, farmer, own farm, immigration yr. 1883 (1883 as per MaxD's post)
Taylor, Victorine, age 47, b. France, immigration yr. 1913
Taylor, Lucine, age 6, daughter, b. Ontario
Cheers,
DB
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Hi Ann,
Saskatchewan Cemetery Transcripts,
Taylor, John W. b. Oct. 5, 1868 d. Aug. 21, 1960, War Vet - Pvt.RAMC, w. of Victorie (286.4)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89NJ-S7XQ-R?i=254&cc=2258205
Find A Grave, Dinsmore Cemetery, Battleford, Saskatchewan
Taylor, John W. b. 1879 (?) d. Aug. 21, 1960
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Taylor&GSiman=1&GScid=2194187&GRid=115201184&
Saskatchewan Cemetery Transcripts
Taylor, Victorie, b. Sep. 17, 1872 d. May 20, 1944 w. of John (286.4)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89NJ-S7KH-6?i=296&cc=2258205
Find A Grave, Dinsmore Cemetery, correct dates of birth and death
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Taylor&GSiman=1&GScid=2194187&GRid=115201188&
A possible, Dinsmore Cemetery,
Taylor, Lucien M. b. Sept. 19, 1915, d. Jan. 1, 1984
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Taylor&GSiman=1&GScid=2194187&GRid=115201185&
Cheers,
DB
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Hi,
Ontario Deaths, North Easthope, Aug. 17, 1913,
Stillbirth :(
Taylor...male, father John Taylor, mother Victonni Batte
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6SS3-3B6
Cheers,
DB
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Hi,
Homestead Grant Registers, Saskatchewan
John Taylor,
Application Date: 18 Nov. 1916
Grant Date: 20 Mar. 1923
NW/Section 31, Township 27, Range 10, Meridian W3 (which matches his location on the 1921 census)
Some information about Homestead Grants, .....not for the faint of heart
http://saskarchives.com/collections/land-records/history-and-background-administration-land-saskatchewan/homesteading
Saskatchewan suffered a devastating drought from the late 1920's to late 1930's, perhaps this
is why John asked for assistance in 1939.
http://esask.uregina.ca/entry/drought.html
An interesting site on how they lived in rural Saskatchewan.
http://saskarchives.com/sasksettlement/
Cheers,
DB
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Thank you so very much DB well done :D so it looks like my hunch was right, every thing fits,
I did an extensive search on the Free week end on Ancestry but didn't come with much, at the moment I have problems with seeing the screen, so I may have missed some :-\
I also did a search for Land grants it came up with 4 & they didn't look right John
Now I have to find Johns brother Edward, who was ill I couldn't find a death, he is not with any of the family on the UK census, but there is a Edward that fits on the passenger list, so may be he came over to stay with his brother?
Ann
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Looks like John Taylor sent for a bride! ;)
This is all I have found so far on Victorine Botte
Victorine Botte Immigration Jun 1912 Quebec City, Quebec, Canada Female 40 1872 France Ascania
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AVictorine~%20%2Bsurname%3ABotte~%20%2Bbirth_place%3AFrance~%20%2Bspouse_givenname%3AFlorance~%20%2Brecord_country%3ACanada
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Hi Ann,
UK Outgoing Passenger List, on the ship Ascania, same ticket #
Botte, Miss age 19 (?? must have been a rough voyage, she aged 21 years), domestic, last permanent residence London, England. Perhaps John met her when he was back in the UK.
From "Our Roots" a book called "Dynamic Dinsmore" there is a short bio of John Taylor. He came
to Sask. in 1916 with a small son Lucien....the 1921 census lists him as "daughter" ::) He married
Dorothy Steele in 1941.
http://www.ourroots.ca/page.aspx?id=3933189&qryID=9ffcff95-9240-4789-abe2-a8290d9d65a5
Dorothy is in the Dinsmore cemetery as well, b. June 26, 1920 d. Sep. 26, 2000.
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=taylor&GSiman=1&GScid=2194187&GRid=115201179&
What passenger list did you find Edward on?
Cheers,
DB
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Thank you so much DB :D for all you have found, I did look for the UK Outgoing Passenger List, for the ship Ascania thinking there may be more info, but I couldn't find it!! the info you found is interesting,
The short bio of John Taylor from "Dynamic Dinsmore is a wonderful find, so there may be descendants living Hamilton, I will have to see if I can trace them.
I have tried to find a map of the area with no luck, I also looked for any newspaper cuttings with no success, I am not doing very well am I ???
Edward he was discharged from the army at Netley Hampshire on the 1st Jan 1889 as no longer fit suffering from " ague"[ malaria since 1.10.87] his brother John came to UK Sep 1896.
I cant find him for sure in the 1891, 1901, & 1911, I may have missed him as it a common name, I didn't find a death, I think this may be him
Edward Taylor Birth Date: abt 1866 Age: 45 Port of Departure: Quebec, Canada Arrival Date: 13 Oct 1911 Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England Ports of Voyage: Quebec Ship Name: Empress of Britain Search Ship Database Shipping line: Canadian Pacific Line Official Number: 120940,
[ Pensioner]
Ed Taylor 43. 1868 Dep 19 Apr 1911 Bristol, for Quebec, on Royal George, drill instructor ? army or mining?
Ann
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I was contacted by a dbree, a volunteer researcher, to add to this thread.
I am Lucien's (who went by Lou) wife Dorothy's (or Dot as the family called her) nephew - she was dad's sister.
The land location you found NW 1/4 Section 31, Township 27, Range 10, Meridian W3, is the Taylor homestead. It is located just northeast of Dinsmore, Saskatchewan in what my dad always referred to as 'the little green valley'. In the relatively dry prairie area where we were raised (our farm was about 10-12 miles southwest of here), there was limited surface water, but the valley had a series of sloughs that generally remained full.
Uncle Lou served in the Canadian Armed Forces (I presume Army based on stories I have been told) in Europe in WW2. While Lou was overseas, Dot worked in a war plant in Hamilton, Ontario. Lou and Dot settled in Hamilton and he had a long career with one of the steel firms located there.
In their advancing years (1980ish) they moved back to Saskatchewan to Saskatoon.
They had two children - a son, BT, who came out west a couple of summers in the early 60's and worked as a hired man for my dad; and a daughter GT, who moved to Saskatoon after high school and spent many weekends out at Dinsmore at our home - kind of adopting my parents as substitutes for her parents, who remained some 3000 km east in Hamilton.
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Hi BD,
I found Victorine Botte as Botta on family search.
<https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AVictorine~%20%2Bsurname%3ABotts~%20%2Bbirth_place%3AFrance~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1873-1873~> also 1906 census for a Victorine Boez?
Victorine Botta Event Type Census Event Date 31 Mar 1901, Servant Birth Year (Estimated) 1873 Birthplace France (French) Event Place St Margaret And St John, London, Middlesex, England County London,......
Victorine was a cook for the family of Charles Thomson a Justice of the Peace,2nd life guard army & Agnes Thomson living at Rutland House
I have had another look for her on ships list still not found her on A...!. I also cant find her on the 1911 census if she was a cook she may be out of the country with the family ?
Thank you again for your help
Ann
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Hawki56
Thank you for that is fascinating :D, is there any way of contacting the nephew?
Ann
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Ann E, I'm not sure I understand your request - I am Lucien and Dorothy's nephew.
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Hi Hawki56,
Sorry I misunderstood the message, lovely to have made contact with you. :)
I would like to send you a P M personal message, but I think you have to post 3 messages, before I can do that
I have got it right, Dorothy Steele was your dad' sister?
I did look for Lucien's Canadian Armed Forces records but couldn't locate them.
Thank you contacting me, & for all the info.
Ann
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Third post - should be able to send to me now Ann. :)
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DB I have managed to find Victorine Botta on the passenger list, :) I knew from the previous ships list I found the ship departed from Southampton on the 11 June 1912 & arrived in Quebec on the 27 June 1911 at 7 ,20 am, I hope John was there to meet her, Thanks again for all your help.
Ann
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Hi,
A very Warm Welcome Hawki56, :) and thanks again for taking the time to join RC and add to Ann's
post.
Ann - You're welcome. I'm sure John was there with bells on. ;D
Canadian WW2 Service Files are privacy protected, and therefore not online. You can apply for them
but there is a cost involved.
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/Pages/obtain-copies-military-service-files.aspx
Just reviewing, and there is another small item about the Taylor's in the book "Dynamic Dinsmore",
attached to the Falk family. Lou Taylor and Herb Falk were childhood friends. Also make note that J.E. Falk was born in Northeasthope, Ontario...same location as the still birth death, see my reply #16
Column 2, 2nd paragraph, page 196
http://www.ourroots.ca/page.aspx?id=3933077&qryID=3ed2ac7f-c707-4663-9452-632d1008efb1
A photo of the Dinsmore School, Page 21, Lou Taylor #68, Herb Falk #73
http://www.ourroots.ca/page.aspx?id=3932902&qryID=3ed2ac7f-c707-4663-9452-632d1008efb1
No luck yet on the elusive Edward. ???
Cheers,
DB
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Hi Ann,
Perhaps an email to the Wheatland Regional Library, Dinsmore Branch for a lookup for an obituary
for John. It may mention family.
https://www.wheatland.sk.ca/contactus
Cheers,
DB
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Thanks again DB, will try that, I send an e mail asking for info, so far no reply.
re Edward maybe he didn't want to be found as:
Edward Taylor, labourer, late of Haven-street, was summoned being the putative father of the illegitimate female child of Sarah Squibb.—The defendant, who failed to answer the summons, was ordered to pay a weekly allowance of 2s, until the child attains the age of 15 years. Isle of Wight Observer Ryde, Saturday, January 12, 1884 :o
On 17 January Edward Taylor Joined the Border Regiment. prior to this in IOW Militia
little did he know that Sarah Squibb died & was buried on the24 May 1887, I don't what happened to the child may be adopted.
Ann
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Hawki56
I have sent you 2 private messages did you receive them?
Ann
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Hi,
John Taylor is my great grandfather. I’m interesting in learning more about him. I recently joined ancestry.ca but I’ve come up with nothing. I was glad to get pictures of grave stone for your posts.
Mark
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Hello mark pleased to have made contact with you. how are you descended from John?
I would like to send you a P M personal message, but I think you have to post 3 messages, before I can do that, so if you reply to this one then send another I will do that.
Ann
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What name are you under on ancestry?
Ann
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Mark Russell on ancestry
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Thank Ann
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Ann,
I’m the son of Barry Taylor, grandson of Lucien (Lou) Taylor , great grandson of John Taylor. I was adopted as a child so I have a different surname.
Mark
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Hi Mark
I have sent you a private message