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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kildare => Topic started by: scarlett0017 on Friday 30 June 17 16:47 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Looking for any information on the James Shaughnessy / Alicia Power families?
Here is what i know so far;
James Shaughnessy married Alicia Power on 26 February 1865, in the RCC of Caragh.
He is from Barrettstown, she is from Waterstown. Marraige witnesses are, John Smullen and Mary Byrne.
His fathers name is also James Shaughnessy, her fathers name is William Power, we don't have their mothers names as we can't locate any birth certificates for them.
They have 3 childern;
Bridget born 1865 and baptised on the 17 September 1865, we think she may have died as an infant, but we can't locate a death certificate or a birth certificate for her.
I got the baptism information from another site.
Patrick born 27 January 1868, died on 29 June 1946 (My Great Grandfather).
Catherine born 1872, we think, couldn't locate a birth certificate. But we do have her death certificate, she died on 22 September 1951.
James died sometime before 1901, he isn't on that census form, but we can't locate a death certificate for him, or a birth certificate.
Alicia is on the 1901 census form as Allis, still living with her son Patrick and daugther Catherine in 11 Albert Place Dublin.
We don't have a death certificate or a birth certificate for Alicia.
Looking into the Clongorey Evictions;
1883 James Shaughnessy and family as being the first person who was evicted, surname spelt differently in the text of the video, we were curious to know if this is the same James Shaughnessy.
The connection to O Kelly, OldConnell Barrettstown is there, it comes up in the Griffth Valuations.
Also found some petty court session things for James Shaughnessy.
Thanks in advance for any help given, which is greatly appreciated.
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There won't be any Civil Records such as birth certs before 1864.
Caragh Parish records are here
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0695
I'll have a look around I'm fairly familiar with the area as my people are also from Barrattstown.
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I have Mary Ryans book on the evictions, it's also online have you seen it?
http://eprints.maynoothuniversity.ie/5108/1/Mary_Brigid_Ryan_20140624105003.pdf
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On Bridget's birth cert it say James is Labourer and small landholder.
Barrettstown Newbridge
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03554/2308705.pdf
Bridget's transcribed baptisim gives address of Thomastown
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634418#page/24/mode/1up
Patrick 1868 it just says Labourer
Barrettstown
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03456/2268869.pdf
Patrick's also gives Thomastown, there is an Arthur Power as sponsor.
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634418#page/28/mode/1up
Catherine 1872 again Labourer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03225/2182214.pdf
I don't see Catherine in Caragh but she is on FamilySearch but parish isn't named.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGHH-YDZ
Post edited 11.30PM
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There is a report in the Kildare Observer on 15 March 1884 of James Shaughnessy's empty house being set on fire the previous October. It implies he set the fire on the night before more evictions were to go to court, it says after he was evicted he constructed a hut near his former home, but it doesn't tell us any more about his family.
Not sure if this link will work
http://archive.irishnewsarchive.com/Olive/APA/KCL.Edu/#panel=document
no it only goes to the introduction page, but the paper can be searched for free.
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Curious Mary Ryan has a Patk Shaughnessy getting a loan of £125 to buy land in Barrettstown in May 1900 but there are no Shaughnessy's in Barrettstown in 1901, and there is none on the house and buildings return as landlord which you would expect if he leased it out.
So is he the Patrick in Dublin by 1901...
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I was just reading your post on Ireland Reaching Out https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/kildare/message-board/shaughnessy-power
bit confused by the reference to John Bentley.
Calendar of Wills gives his residence as Barrettstown, he died near Athy.
https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/kildare/message-board/shaughnessy-power
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James Michael Gerard O'Shaughnessy mother Mary Shea was born 28th Sep 1909 at 4 ST JOHN'S COTTAGES
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01594/1640635.pdf
Alice O'Shaughnessy age 71 ? died 3rd April 1907 informant M O'Shaughnessy ,daughter
(think this should be daughter in law) at 4 ST JOHN'S COTTAGES
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05532/4560577.pdf
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James ? 1895 cant make out address
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05932/4685087.pdf
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Mary O'Shaughnessy 4 St John's Cottages died 1910
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05429/4517850.pdf
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Usher_s_Quay/St__John_s_Cottages/64717/
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James ? 1895 cant make out address
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05932/4685087.pdf
I thought that one at first but it's Brannoxtown not Barrettstown
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I decided to check where Waterstown is, I never noticed before that there are two Barrettstown, one next to Waterstown near Sallins, there is an Arthur Power in Waterstown but no Shaughnessy in this Barrettstown in Griffith's
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,687317,723608,8,10
and the other near Caragh
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,683421,720440,8,10
Waterstown and Barrettstown is in the Civil Parish of Brideschurch in the RC Parish of Caragh
but not in the O'Kelly's estate of Clongory
The area known as Clongorey is made up of four townlands Clongorey, Barrettstown, Blacktrench and Tankardsgarden covering 2500 acres mainly bog.
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Hope i'm not straying off topic but i saw this in reference to Mary De Lap
https://www.ancestry.ie/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=111&p=surnames.oshaughnessy
note Margaret Delap age 3 and Florence age 5
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kbm/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Trinity/Mark_s_Lane/1311085/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/Grenville_Street/26024/
marriage 1936
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1936/08924/5227836.pdf
Witnesses John and Florrie Leonard
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1924/09154/5310846.pdf
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I just did a lot of editing to reply #3 adding parish records.
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@Sinann
Yeah somebody else told me that about the birth records, is there anyother way to find out there exact birth dates, I have a year of birth for Alicia Power of about 1832. Would really love to know the mothers names of both James and Alicia, there could be other siblings as well, I don’t know of.
I’ll keep looking on the Caragh Parish records, something might pop up.
Yeah saw that book on the evictions, but I was unsure if it was the same James.
The same with the petty court session stuff I found, unsure if it’s the same James.
Yeah Patrick’s father James was listed as a Labourer, so it could have been James father that was the farmer. I wonder if that Arthur Power is anything to Alicia Power?
Thank you for those Certs, that’s great.
Nah, couldn’t get the paper up at all, I searched and searched but got nowhere, sorry.
Patrick was in Dublin from 1901, first in 11 Albert Place, then 4 St Johns Cottages, last known place was 9 Harold Road. Don’t even know if he remarried or not, but I think his sister Catherine took on the roll of “stepmother”, when he died in 1946 he was still listed as being a widower.
He worked as a Railway Guard/Porter, I don’t know what line though, I presume it was Houston Station, but not sure.
I found three Shaughnessy’s on the Electoral Roll for 1911 in Dublin, all living in the same place as Patrick, but I don’t know if they are related.
http://databases.dublincity.ie/burgesses/search_new.php?searchtype=street&year=1911&address01=KILMAINHAM%20LANE
That John Bentley thing threw me as well I wasn’t expecting something like that to come up, no idea what that’s about, or even if it is the same James Shaughnessy. Haven’t been able to find out anything else on that.
Two Barrettstown’s, oh god Roger from Ireland Reaching Out did mention a connection he found for Waterstown and James Shaughnessy. I think Alicia could have been from Waterstown and James was from Barrettstown, and that’s how they met living so close.
@dathai
Blimey, its so great to have James Birth Cert, we were wondering if Mary had died in child birth or just after, but with this now we know she didn’t, she died the year after.
Fantastic to have Alice’s (Alicia’s) Death Certificate, surprising how the names change on all the different documents through out the years.
@Sinann had given me Mary’s Death Cert, still don’t know what she died of, somebody thinks it could be “Brights” Disease. And we made contact with the rest of her family down in Tipperary/Offaly, so that was great, we just don’t know where she is buried yet.
Yeah I got a land assesment 1853 for a James Shaughnessy in Brannoxtown, I think its a different James Shaughnessy.
I suspect both James and Alicia are buried in a very old graveyard somewhere close to where they lived, Barrettstown/OldConnell/Waterstown.
Not straying off the mark at all, James and Mary’s son will be so happy, he had wanted me to find out something for him about his parents, this is brilliant.
I didn’t know about that guy on Ancestry, I could have helped him out, probably too late now though its going back to 2008. He has some information on there that isn’t quite right, I don't have my tree on Ancestry.
@Sinann @Dathai
Thank you so much for all your help so far, it is very much appreciated, its just so brilliant to have all of this information.
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I'm inclined to think the Shaughnessys were from the Barrettstown near Caragh because there is none showing in the other Barrettstown and Bridget's birth cert says Barrettstown Newbridge, the Barrettstown near Caragh is the nearest to Newbridge.
They are probably buried in Barrettstown graveyard, but it's unlikely they have a headstone, most people couldn't afford them, I'll have a look next I'm there, should be this month.
Arthur Power is worth more study.
Land Registry records for Barrettstown would be interesting to see, that Pat Shaughnessy getting a loan to buy land is interesting.
I'm stuck at the same point you are with my families, I've never been able to get back due to the poor parish records, although on family is in the Applotment books which I don't think I checked for yours yet.
I had a look through a book of photographs of the people from that area, sadly no Shaughnessys or Powers in it.
I'll see if I can get a search term that will get you a result on the paper tomorrow.
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Forgot to say, Thomastown on the children's Baptisims is right next to Barrettstown near Caragh.
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The newspaper, click on the Search/Results and in the top of the Refine Search on the left put Barrettstown in the 'All of these Words' in the date area lower down put 1884 in both don't bother with month or day.
The report you want should be the only result.
Click of the image of the full page and the page will open.
Barrettstown will be highlighted in yellow in the second column about two thirds down.
The heading just above that which is very small reads BURNING AT BARRETTSTOWN.
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I'm inclined to think the Shaughnessys were from the Barrettstown near Caragh because there is none showing in the other Barrettstown and Bridget's birth cert says Barrettstown Newbridge, the Barrettstown near Caragh is the nearest to Newbridge.
They are probably buried in Barrettstown graveyard, but it's unlikely they have a headstone, most people couldn't afford them, I'll have a look next I'm there, should be this month.
Arthur Power is worth more study.
Land Registry records for Barrettstown would be interesting to see, that Pat Shaughnessy getting a loan to buy land is interesting.
I'm stuck at the same point you are with my families, I've never been able to get back due to the poor parish records, although on family is in the Applotment books which I don't think I checked for yours yet.
I had a look through a book of photographs of the people from that area, sadly no Shaughnessys or Powers in it.
I'll see if I can get a search term that will get you a result on the paper tomorrow.
Yeah i think it is the Barrettstown of Newbridge Caragh because thats come up on a lot of stuff, and its come up on James & Alicia's Marriage Cert - at the RCC of Caragh in the registers district of Naas & Caragh. They were married by a Denis Muldowney, if thats any help.
I found that James sometimes used the name Jas Shaughnessy, i saw that on Patricks Birth Cert, and on Bridgets Baptisim record.
Maybe Arthur is related to William or Alicia, i will look into it more as well, see if anything shows up.
Wow, it would be great to see some photos of them, i have a photo of my Grandmother with Catherine, Patricks sister.
Still no joy with the paper i'm afraid, need to brush up on my search skills :)
So they may not have been involved in those evictions then?
There is something about the land, not sure what though. would be interesting to see if he got a loan, why he got it, and then turned up in Dublin.
I wonder were they up there when James died? we need his death cert to be certain. If Alicia died in Dublin i wonder if they buried her there or in Kildare.
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If they were from the Caragh Barrettstown than they may well have been involved in the evictions, that Barrettstown is part of the Clongorey Estate owned by the O'Kellys.
I did have a bit of a look at the Powers, there seems to be a line of Arthur and Edward Powers on the land in Waterstown but the same problem arises with the lack of parish records to connect William and Catherine to them.
The Arthur Power in Waterstown in 1901 is the son of Edward, it's on his marriage to Catherine Lennon in 1883 Dublin South, it's the same Arthur as Catherine Lennon is the mother of Edward born 1886 Naas.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Donore/Waterstown/1441170/
Griffith's has an Arthur in Waterstown and also the Applotment books have an Arthur Power in Waterstown.
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp
Hard to tell if it's the same Arthur in each as we have no idea of age, there could even be another man between them. Hopefully when more of the earlier death and marriage cert images come online some of these question can be answered.
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If they were from the Caragh Barrettstown than they may well have been involved in the evictions, that Barrettstown is part of the Clongorey Estate owned by the O'Kellys.
I did have a bit of a look at the Powers, there seems to be a line of Arthur and Edward Powers on the land in Waterstown but the same problem arises with the lack of parish records to connect William and Catherine to them.
The Arthur Power in Waterstown in 1901 is the son of Edward, it's on his marriage to Catherine Lennon in 1883 Dublin South, it's the same Arthur as Catherine Lennon is the mother of Edward born 1886 Naas.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Donore/Waterstown/1441170/
Griffith's has an Arthur in Waterstown and also the Applotment books have an Arthur Power in Waterstown.
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp
Hard to tell if it's the same Arthur in each as we have no idea of age, there could even be another man between them. Hopefully when more of the earlier death and marriage cert images come online some of these question can be answered.
Has to be somebody up there connected to them in someway, because from here they remember visiting two old ladies up there when they were kids, possible in the 50s and 60s.
Could be the Powers if they were no Shaughnessys about after 1901.
We never did find a Death Cert for Bridget, what if she didn't die, i'm just going with she died because thats what others in the family believe.
Yeah and i did find a connection between James Shaughnessy and O Kelly, i do have his first name on the page i have.
Also a James Shaughnessy for the Clane polling district of Derreens, see attachment.
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What date is that Derreen's record?
Your not having any luck with the newspaper so I'll just pick out the relevant bits as I think the description of where the house was may be important.
'The next claim was that of Mr Peter Penthony O'Kelly, who claimed compensation for the loss sustained by the malicious burning of a dwelling house, his property, in the townland of Barrettstown, on the night of Wednesday, the 10 of October, 1883, or early on the following morning. £30.
(Skipping forward)
Mr Routledge the agent was examined by Mr White. He recovered possession of the place from the tenant, O'Shaughnessy, by an ejectment process.
(skipping forward, still questioning Routledge )
What reason have you to believe the fire was malicious? There was a great deal of trouble with this man who was ejected for the house.
How long was it from the time of he was ejected till the burning took place? The ejectment was in February and the fire in October.
Where was he living in the mean time? In a house on the other side of the ditch.
(skipping forward)
Mr Rutledge in reply to Mr White said that after O'Shaughnessy had been put out he erected another house on the land close to where he had lived. He(Mr Rutledge) had levelled the house.
(skipping forward)
P Fulham, the balliff was examined next. He got possession of the place for the sheriff. The fire took place about 9.30 in the morning. He saw it as he was on his way to Naas to attend at the Quarter Sessions where he was to give evidence in cases that were pending against other tenants. In reply to Mr Brown he said that he saw the house several times between February and October. There was a fastening on the door but "it was not put on." The house was close to two roadsand was partly built of mud. As to it being manure he could not say it was. The evicted tenant had thatched about a fourth of the roof some time previously. He never saw any props or under pinning to the walls.
(skipping forward)
In reply to further questions witness said he did not think there was anything in the house that would ignite. There had been a dresser and form but they had been removed.'
The skipped bits are just about O'Kelly's right or other wise to make the claim, the value of the house, if it was secured or not and such like.
The interesting line I put in bold, near two roads, we have three townlands named for the O'Shaughnessys, Barretstown, Thomastown and now Derreens.
Thomastown and Derreens are beside each other, Barrettstown is on the other side of the road. There are several roads meeting in this area.
O'Shaughnessy built another house on the other side of the ditch which Rutledge leveled so where did O'Shughnessy go than, did he build another house? (In another part Rutledge calls it a hut, was this the same place that was leveled or another dwelling) Which townland did he end up in? We'll never know for sure but he doesn't appear to have left the area, he wanted his land back and the loan to Pat to buy land looks like they did get their farm back.
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Just discovered Barrettstown and Caragh cemeterys are on Billion Graves. The Arthur Power family are in Caragh.
https://billiongraves.com/cemetery/Barrettstown-Cemetery/293486
the link to Caragh is on the same page.
Barretstown is not complete, some of my lot aren't there.
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Just discovered Barrettstown and Caragh cemeterys are on Billion Graves. The Arthur Power family are in Caragh.
https://billiongraves.com/cemetery/Barrettstown-Cemetery/293486
the link to Caragh is on the same page.
Barretstown is not complete, some of my lot aren't there.
Thats great, i couldn't find the grave anywhere. James & Alicia are probably in one where the headstone is faded, or as you said they might not have one at all. How would you pin point the grave if it didn't have a headstone? I wonder if they mapped them out using numbers?
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Doubt anyone knows how many are buried in that cemetary, it old, very uneven ground and has loads of trees. The graves are quite scattered about and there is lots of broken, half buried and worn headstones. I have to go there this week, the cemetary mass is on Friday so I should be able to take a photo to give you an idea what it's like.
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Doubt anyone knows how many are buried in that cemetary, it old, very uneven ground and has loads of trees. The graves are quite scattered about and there is lots of broken, half buried and worn headstones. I have to go there this week, the cemetary mass is on Friday so I should be able to take a photo to give you an idea what it's like.
That would be great ;D
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There is a hill in the middle of the cemetery, the rest of the photos are taken from the top of the hill moving from left to right.
The 'tent' is over the altar for mass tonight. The empty looking grass/mud areas are full of unmarked graves.
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The sun decided to shine just as I started taken these which increased the contrast but I didn't have time to wait for a cloud.
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2 more
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last one
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Just home from the mass, no sign of a O'Shaughnessy headstone and blank looks from anyone I asked about the family.
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Just home from the mass, no sign of a O'Shaughnessy headstone and blank looks from anyone I asked about the family.
Looks like a nice graveyard, some nice headstones, i thought it was going to be a really old creepy graveyard.
I've been looking at a few graveyard locations on this site http://kildare.co/Kildare-Graveyards-by-Parish.asp around the area where they lived, god only knows where they are buried, literally.
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I think the O'Shaugnessy name was just Shaugnessy when the family were living up in Kildare.
Looks like Patrick added the O himself for whatever reason, but usually a name change implies you want to distance yourself from something, or someone.
Still haven't found a burial place for Patrick's wife Mary, definetly not buried with him, his sister, son and daughter-inlaw in Glasnevin.
I found the name changes with the other side of the family as well, O'Brien was also O'Bryan, then just Brien or Bryan.
Makes trying to track everybody down more interesting, i suppose. :P ;D
At the very least you get to test your investigating skills. ;) ;D
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Adding the O is completely normal and very common, my family did it as well
Scroll down to the Gaelic Revival, variations in spelling also very common it usually depended on the official writing the record not the family member.
https://irishhistory.com/genealogy/irish-surnames/understanding-irish-surname-prefixes-o-mac-and-mc-a-guide-to-irish-genealogy/
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I think Patrick's father, or maybe his grandfather who was also called James Shaughnessy could have been an interesting person though, i found a lot of petty crime stuff belonging to him. Then a half brother by blood, not sure what that means, but i think it could mean either one of his parents had a child with somebody else.
I think he was also involved in the Clongorey evictions from the O'kelly estate, there is a James Shaughnessy listed as being one of the evictees.
Its hard to know which James was which.