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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: StephenCND on Friday 07 July 17 18:08 BST (UK)
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I'm well into mapping my family tree, at this point working on a Thomas Pinder Born 1825-Bridlington-Yorkshire D1876 Married to a Mary Pinder (1821-1901). And that's where things went south. I was trying to determine the maiden name of this Mary Pinder. Someone's tree pointed to a Mary Sawton, but their tree points to the father of Thomas Pinder as being a Roger Pinder, and not a John Pinder (B1802-D1842) Baptized in Kilham. That put the whole lineage in question.
Here is what the line looks like from my research:
(-The key or touchstone person here is Stephen Pinder (B1803 in Kilham D1882, Ontario, Canada. Married to a Mary Ann Coulson). His brother (should) be John Pinder, mentioned below). Stephen Pinder is my Great-Great Grandfather
John Pinder (B1716 Snaith) D-1797) + Jane Beiley (1725-1804)
John Pinder (B1749 Kilham-D1843) + Mary Clark (B1773 Kilham - D ? )
John Pinder (B1802 Baptized Kilham - D 1842) + Alice Leadley (B1802 - Kilham - D1884)
Thomas Pinder (B1825-Bridlington D 1876) + Mary Sawton
The other persons tree breaks down in the following manner:
Roger Pinder B1729 - Barmston - D?) + Catherine Donkin (B1737-D1813)
William Pinder (B1766-Burton Agness D1841) + Jane Deighton (B1768 - Gristhorpe D1872)
Roger Pinder (B1796 Rudston - D1865) + Harriet Sampson (B1796-Bridlington D 1872)
Thomas Pinder (B1825-D1876 + Mary Sawton (1821- Barmston-D1901)>
Two things that have me concerned about my tree: John Pinder 1716-1797 is showing as being born in Snaith.. that's a bit of a ways from Kilham.
The other thing is John Pinder (B1802 Baptized Kilham - D 1842): Someone here provided a photo (Headstone) of John Pinder https://1drv.ms/i/s!AifC60WL0cSMuWSFvmZqD3xHEDOh (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AifC60WL0cSMuWSFvmZqD3xHEDOh)
It's inscribed on the headstone that Thomas died in 1866 in North America, but I cannot find any trace of it.
So, is my timeline correct? I'm particularly worried about the two first John Pinders .
And, is this Thomas Pinder the wrong Thomas?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi
Have you tried registering with the GRO service and searching for any known births of children to Thomas and Mary ?
This site will give you the maiden surname of the mother
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
Claire
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Hi Stephen,
They are probably looking at this possible marriage.
From FreeBMD:
Marriages Dec 1844
BRYAN Tamar Bridlington 23 43
PINDER Thomas Bridlington 23 43 ****
Sawden Mary Bridlington 23 43 ****
STEPHENSON Edmund Bridlington 23 43
NB Mary's surname is given as SAWDEN not SAWTON.
Do they have the Marriage Cert for the fathers names?
Giggsy
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Who is the Thomas Pinder son of John & Alice baptised in Kilham ? - this one surely is yours.
The Thomas P baptised in Bridlington 1825 is the son of Roger and Harriet :)
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Using Claire's suggestion:
First child?
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
PINDER, JOHN THOMAS SAWDEN Order
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in BRIDLINGTON Volume 23 Page 24
Another one:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
PINDER, WILLIAM SAWDEN Order
GRO Reference: 1848 J Quarter in BRIDLINGTON Volume 23 Page 21
Giggsy
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Same info as the others + Mary Sawden is dau. of Lewis & Elizabeth Sawden.
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There's a Roger Pinder Bapt. 1801 Rudston to Wm. & Jane.
At the moment the other tree looks right.
Can't see a marriage for Wm. & Jane at present but Dau. Sarah b. 1841 has mmn as Sampson so that looks right.
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Hi
Have you tried registering with the GRO service and searching for any known births of children to Thomas and Mary ?
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
Claire
Ah.. how do you register?
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Jane Pinder died 1862 not 72.
Click order certs. online then Order Certificates Online and search the GRO historic birth and death indexes & log in/register.
Not sure about the Burton Agness William as there's another b. 1766 Bridlington fa. William.
There's another b. 1765 at Barmston fa. Roger.
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Hi,
I think this is the Thomas PINDER born in Kilham in 1824,
Marriage
28 March 1855 Yorkshire Gazette
Marriages
Tuesday the 24th
Same day at Driffield, Mr Thomas PINDER, to Miss Elizabeth WRIGGLESWORTH, both of Kilham.
Thomas PINDER Jun Q 1855 Driffield 9d 423
Elizabeth WRIGGLESWORTH
1860 United States Federal Census
Black Wolf, Winnebago, Wisconsin
Thomas PINDER 33 Farmer England
Elisabeth PINDER 22 " "
William H PINDER 4 Wisconsin
Frederick W PINDER 2 "
Casper SMITH 17 Germany
U.S., Civil War Draft Registrations Records, 1863-1865
July & August 1863
Black Wolf
Thomas PINDER 39 Farmer England
British Newspapers
25 May 1866 Hull Packet
April 11, at Oshkosh, United States of America, aged 41 years, Mr Thomas PINDER, formerly of Kilham, Yorkshire.
26 May 1866 York Herald
PINDER - April 11th, at Oshkosh, United States of America, aged 41 years, Mr Thomas PINDER, formerly of Kilham, Yorkshire.
There is a headstone in Oaklawn Cemetery, Oshkosh, Wisconsin for him.
https://billiongraves.com/grave/person/6491460
Interesting that his wife Elizabeth is buried with him even though she had remarried to Thomas KEMP.
Ancestry has a 49 image probate case for Thomas PINDER in "All Wisconsin, Wills and Probate Records", far too many for me to try and transcribe but I think that these are the main points.
He died intestate and his widow Elizabeth is sorting out the inventory of his goods etc and the administration.
He died on the 11th April 1866 in Black Wolf.
He left his surviving his widow, William Henry PINDER his son aged 10 years and Clara Alice PINDER his daughter aged 5 years.
Someone called James SANDERSON is the administrator of the estate.
"His heirs are William Henry PINDER and Clara Allice PINDER minor children of said deceased and Elizabeth KEMP the late widow of the said deceased who since the death of said Thomas PINDER has intermarried with one Thomas KEMP"
If you are sure that the Stephen PINDER born in Kilham in 1803 is yours then I'm not sure how the confusion about his brother John's son Thomas would put his lineage in question :-\
Hope this helps :)
Regards,
Daisy
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Hello Daisy,
Thank you very much for your research. I had done the same investigation on my side and found the same information . Didn't spot Clara Alice in the probate. That answered another question. Clara Alice married a Frank E Wiggins. Elizabeth Pinder Kemp moved in them on or before 1910 . She passed away in 1913.
I also found it interesting that she was buried with Thomas Pinder . At who's request.. we'll never know.
The probate was a key piece of information. Fortunate that it was on line. On the subject of wills, how would one obtain one, assuming there was one, for a person, say, living and dying in Kilham around 1843. This obtained at the parish level>
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do you know the original origins of Pinder family ? were they immigrants
i helped someone whose PINDER s came from latvia in 1850 ..?
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My jewish ancestors had same names and similar ages to cousins so you do have to be careful
also for eg: stephen roger " + SURNAME might sometimes to be refered to as stephen sometimes as Roger
good luck sorting yours out ...
wae
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Hello Wae,
Regarding the origins of the Pinder family; At present, I can reliably go back to John Pindar, born in Snaith in 1716 (D1796). His father was a John Pindar as well, but I have little to no supporting documentation as to who he was, where he was born, married, etc. Well, so far that is.
There are a lot of Pinders, Pindars, Penders and other variants out there! It's looking like a life-time commitment to getting to the source of the family name. I suspect it passes through France at one point. Prior to that, no idea.
I'm fairly confident in the integrity of the main branch of the family tree as it now stands (pardon the pun):
John Pinder, mentioned above, left a will that I was able to obtain. It confirms dates, location and offspring. More importantly it also mentions the husbands of his daughters, which tie into the next generation, which also confirmed my previous research.
Example:
His daughter, Mary Pinder married a Stephen Bennison.
Stephen Bennison and Mary Pinder had a daughter, Elizabeth Bennison.
Elizabeth Bennison married a Stephen Coulson.
They had a daughter, Mary Ann Coulson.
This Mary Ann Coulson married a Stephen Pinder, which is my Great-Great Grandfather.
Well, the search continues!
Thanks once again.