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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: hokum50 on Sunday 09 July 17 06:53 BST (UK)
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I am assisting my cousin in the search for his elusive grandmother, I say elusive as she appears to have changed her christian name on a number of occasions. If I may I'll give details of what I know;
Married on 28 May 1899, as Helena HANNON, at the RC Chapel of Aghada, Middletown, Cork to Pte D T WOOLMORE KRRC (GRO: Jun 1900 Middletown Vol 4 Page 332). One of the witnesses was Hannah DOOLEY which may be significant.
1901 Irish Census lists her now as Lillie (20) living in House 14 in Army Married Quarters, NE Ward, Cork with husband and son William. Place of birth given as City of Dublin in 1881.
1911 UK Census lists her now as Lilley now resident in Winchester, Hampshire living with husband and three sons. Place of birth given as Sandymount, Dublin in 1882.
After the death of her husband in 1917, Army pension records show her as Eliza on three occasions and Lizzie in one further entry.
My search for Hannah's birth using Sandymount, Dublin in 1881 and 1882 drew no clues; however, I did find an entry in Irish Genealogy for an un-named HANNON born 7 Jan 1882 in Coombe Hospital, South Dublin to William and Sarah (formerly DOOLEY).
After the 1911 census I have no idea where Helena was, her husband served in India, France and Greece before his death and her sons joined the KRR Corps like their father, the second son joining in Canterbury, Kent.
Searches in FreeBMD for a WOOLMORE death, under any of the christian names, drew a blank.
Can anyone suggest how I may be able to confirm, if at all, whether the un-named HANNON is my cousins grandmother please. Alternatively, have I missed an obvious lead to the real person?
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possible ?
Elizabeth Hannon born 1881 to John Hannon and Mary Dooran at Shaws Cottages which is near Sandymount
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02830/2037653.pdf
address as it appears 1901
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kdd/
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OSI Map
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,717731,733279,12,9
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for reference marriage and childrens births
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kde/
the informant on both births was Kate Shanahan a nurse/midwife
transcribed as Patie here age 40
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/North_East_Ward/O_Riordans_Square/1102519/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kdf/
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One of the most important clues is the marriage certificate where Helena's father is listed as John Hannon (no occupation listed)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10348/5767361.pdf
Civil marriage records don't list mother's name but the church record might.
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I presume you may have checked out this death
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2JC1-Z32
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Mothers name appears to be Mary Dolan not Dooran
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kdg/
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Think i discovered what brought her to Cork
Julia Hannon married James Norton 1891 he was a soldier from Liverpool same regiment as David Woolmore
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10685/5894058.pdf
or 605 here
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633838#page/58/mode/1up
they had a son Thomas born Cork 1900
312 here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/02001/1769528.pdf
1901
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSF9-Z2S
1911
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQS-HCH
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John Hannon was a widower on his marriage to Mary Dolan
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGD3-GB3
son Edward who married in 1884 to Margaret Dennis
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1862-1881_ma_0097
though he gives his mother as Mary Dolan on his marriage cert there does not seem to be a birth registered for him to this couple
his siblings (ignore the Leitrim births a different couple)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kdk/
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dathai
aghadowey
I didn't think for one moment that my enquiry was going to be easy, so firstly thank you both for your interest in my problem.
Based on your valued contributions I thought it best to re-establish the facts that we do know:
1. The Aghada marriage to David Woolmore in the Superintendants Register for Middleton (or is it Middletown please) for the 28 May 1899 was in the name Helena Hannon.
2. Her father's name then was John Hannon.
3. David was billeted at Carlisle Fort at the entrance to Cork harbour.
4. 1901 census Helena changed her name to Lillie while resident in Cork military barracks.
5. 1911 census Helena was now Lilley living in Winchester, Hampshire.
6. 10 Dec 1917 - Helena was listed as Eliza - Army Register of Soldier's Effects 1901-1929
7. 27 Feb 1918 - -----------------------------------"--------------------------------------
8 7 Nov 1919 - -----------------------------------"-------------------------------------- these last three entries were records of David's War Gratuity. Because of this last entry Helena could not have been Elizabeth Woolmore who died in 1919 (GRO: Jan-Mar 1919 West Ham Vol 4a Page 1490. However to fair there is no record of War Gratuity being drawn after Nov 1919.
I have been unable to locate a copy of a church record of the marriage of Helena; however, if a church record of the marriage does exist then Helena should appear plus as you say may list her mother's maiden name.
When John married Mary DOLAN (or DOORAN) he was listed as HANNAN, whereas Helena's father at her wedding was John HANNON, this could be a clerical error although HANNAN crops up a lot.
Even the birth records (dates confimed as correct from family records) of Helena's first two sons give her maiden name as HANNAN.
The records of Elizabeth's birth/baptism conflict giving HANNON and HANNAN; moreover, in the Registrars record of Elizabeth's birth, John and Elizabeth are HANNON and John's occupation was that of a steam viser?
At this point, I am totally confused; however in a very loose sense, on David's Military History Sheet, wife is listed as Eliza but below in another handwriting style and in red ink was "Wife Lizzie." which of course matches with Elizabeth. It's the tying of Helena to Elizabeth/Lizzie which is the puzzle and why was Lilly or it various spelling and Eliza come from.
Member's of my cousin's family regrettably have been unable to supply any information which I can add on this matter for your digestion, but again my thanks fro your time and effort.
Regards
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John Hannon worked on the railway,at the time of Elizabeth's birth he was a ''steam riser'' he likely got the boilers fired up in the locomotives as i believe this takes a while to get the pressure up from a cold boiler.
In 1891 on Julia's marriage he is described as an Engine Driver and still alive,he is also down as a Stoker on other certs.
His son Philip was also a stoker in the Navy from his daughter Rose's birth 1903
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW9V-WQ5
Wife and son in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/North_Dock/Marlborough_Street/1329480/
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I have now discussed with my cousin the problem of the name and identification of David Woolmore's wife Helena/Elizabeth.
As your lead ie Elizabeth (with John and mother Mary DORAN) is a strong possibilty of being David's wife, then we should include this information with a caveat attached. Somehow we don't think the mystery of how Helena became Eliza/Lillie/Lilly will ever be solved, suffice to say, she was the wife of L/Cpl David WOOLMORE and the mother of three sons, all of whom served, like their father, with the KRR Corps.
Please accept our thanks for your time and assistance in this interesting post.
Regards
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Julia Hannon was born 1868
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPZ9-NGQ
Her sister Jane was born 1874
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPTJ-FD9
When Julia? Hannon married James Norton in 1891 she gave her name as Jane or as the priest has recorded it in Latin Joanna
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633838#page/58/mode/1up
this falls in better with her age on the 1901 Census
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSF9-Z2S