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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: robert g shaw on Tuesday 11 July 17 15:57 BST (UK)
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hi
im looking for any information please on the marriage between john shepperd (or variants of the name) and susannah jarvis in 1820, st martin in the fields
tia.
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Do you mean Susanna Jarvis & John Shefford botp after banns -30 January 1824 -witnesses Anthony & Sarah Thatcher - St Martin in the Fields :-\
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married by Banns on 30 jan 1820, botp, John signed, Susanna made her mark. Her surname is recorded as Jarvies, his as Sheppard. wit Thomas Davies and Millisent Keep(?)
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I saw the John Shefford marriage too, what a coincidence both on 30th Jan but different years
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I obviously should have had 'spelling variants' on her surname ;D I will cross mine out ;)
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thanks good people... i was hoping for ages too or/and parents names. if its 'my' john he would be 32-34 , which begs the question was it his second marriage? i can not trace a susannah jarvis either, not a clue how old she was.
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Do you have details of any children for the couple? Do you know John's occupation?
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unfortunately pre-1837 marriage records give little information
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Do you have details of any children for the couple? Do you know John's occupation?
i think susannah died in 1831, john ended up in the workhouse along with one of his kids - james, and family. but nothing much to say for certain.
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Do you have details of any children for the couple? Do you know John's occupation?
i think susannah died in 1831, john ended up in the workhouse along with one of his kids - james, and family. but nothing much to say for certain.
What were the names and years of birth of the children -where were they born/baptised. Where do you have Susannah's burial
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Do you have details of any children for the couple? Do you know John's occupation?
i think susannah died in 1831, john ended up in the workhouse along with one of his kids - james, and family. but nothing much to say for certain.
this is uncertain, but there are 5 children, sarah ann 1820, susanna 1821, james 1825, susannak 1830, louisa 1832 all christened at shoreditch - st leonards . susannah couldnt have died in 1831 if shes the mother of louisa 1832, lol, there is a death recorded in 1841 at clerkenwall london.
i cannot find any of them on the 1841 census. john might be on the 1851 living with james in st leonard shoreditch. i think john died in 1857 .
see its all very vague. :)
What were the names and years of birth of the children -where were they born/baptised. Where do you have Susannah's burial
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The 1841 death gives age as 64
SHEPHERD, SUSANNAH age 64
1841 Dec Quarter in ST JAMES CLERKENWELL Volume 03 Page 52
If she was the mother of Louisa born 1832 she would have been over 50 years old
We have ruled this one out - death has been found 1850
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Just posting the 1851 you mention
James Sheppard 25 occ Wood Cutter born Kingsland Road, Middlesex
Mary A 24 bn Middlesex
James 4 bn Hoxton, Middlesex
Mary A 1 bn Kingsland Road, Middlesex
John Sheppard Father - Widower - 65 occ Wood Chopper place of birth Not Known
Louisa's baptism address is Kingsland Road. It is always possible the 1841 death has the age wrong ???
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I did see an 1850 death for a Susan Shepherd yesterday, can't see it now, but same area where a Susannah was baptised in 1821 d/o John and Susannah, father occ wood divider(?).
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Is this it Lizzie
SHEPPARD, SUSAN age 58
1850 June Quarter in THE SHOREDITCH DISTRICT Volume 02 Page
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yes that's the one.
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Address for her at burial is Crooked Billett Yard which is where John and James are in 1851 ;D
She was buried 14 April 1850 - register shows her as Susan age 58
Well done LizzieL ;D
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oh lordy, that just complicated things...lol.. means she was bron in 1792 not 1798 as id thought, got a birth for 98, not for 92...
i knew there was a reason i hate london! lol,,, things are so much easier when its a country village with a population of 10...lol..
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It's a pity there seems to be no sign of them in 1841, at least we should know then if she was born in county or not. The family is in Shoreditch in 1832 (Louisa's baptism) and in 1850 for Susanna's burial, so it looks like they should be there in 1841.
When did the son James marry and what address was stated?
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Found marriage - James Shepperd married Mary Ann Bates (both minors) on 22 Nov 1845 at St John Hoxton, his abode was Wellington Street - chances are that was the family home.
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One witness was John William Keene who later married Mary Ann after she was widowed.
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1841 at crooked billet yard, Joseph Sheppard 50 woodcutter, Sarah Sheppard 45, Susan 16, James 15 all born in county. Is this them and John has been recorded as Joseph and Susanna as Sarah? or a big coincidence and another Sheppard family with head of household a wood cutter and children called Susan and James?
Piece: 709 Book: 2 Folio: 6 Page Number: 4
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1841 at crooked billet yard, Joseph Sheppard 50 woodcutter, Sarah Sheppard 45, Susan 16, James 15 all born in county. Is this them and John has been recorded as Joseph and Susanna as Sarah? or a big coincidence and another Sheppard family with head of household a wood cutter and children called Susan and James?
Piece: 709 Book: 2 Folio: 6 Page Number: 4
that does my head in!.... so who is this james's dad? john or joseph?
interesting too... im not sure this james shepard is the one im looking for.
im looking for the father of henry shepard 1846 born to either hannah or maria mower in a workhouse. i believe henrys father was james, cant find the info - im snowed under, lol.. but if it was that james then he was an adulterer.
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Do you have Henry Shepard's birth certificate?
I can't find a birth registration with mother's mn Mower
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Is this the Henry Shepherd who you think may be James Howe in later life :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=774093.0
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Is this the Henry Shepherd who you think may be James Howe in later life :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=774093.0
yes... member lemur41 has been in touch on pm, she uncovered the truth!
james howe married eliza knight in derby in 1872. i could find no trace of james howe before this date but in the 1871 census it was noticed that living next door to eliza knight was henry shepard. lemur41 did some digging and couldnt find any further trace of henry shepard.
she looked under births 1846 london, where the 71 census says h shepard came from and found he was a 'nurse child' on the 51 census.
his 'parents' were william and hannah mower, they were in the workhouse along with their kids. it is supposed that one of the mowers daughters, either hannah 1824 or maria 1826 had the illegitimate henry and their parents took him on.
in the workhouse at the same time, in 1841, was a james shepard, so its likely he knew the mower girls.
hannah mowers maiden name was ........ howe .....
henry shepard lived a rougish life by the look of it, joining the navy, living in canada, marrying, deserting them, returning to london and fathering another child marrying again (?) before deserting them moving to derby, meeting eliza knight, and changing his name to avoid detection!
he chose his real fathers name james, and his (grandmothers) name howe. he said his fathers william on the marriage cert to eliza.
i have not located a birth certificate for henry shepard, but he died young in 1893 (47) from 'dropsy' i have his death cert (well my mum does).
think theres a book and film in this! ;D
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That information should not have been sent by PM but posted on the main topic, there could still be people popping back to it to have another try at solving it as I have done and obviously wasted time doing so.
PM's should only be used for personal information. Perhaps it would be a good idea if you also posted it on the other thread to which it relates ;)
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There seem to be a lot of assumptions here. If Henry had been William and Hannah's grandson, why not just say grandson on the census, rather than nurse child. They have granddaughter Amelia in the household, she is likely to be illegitimate. She is probably the Emily Mower reg Q1 1849 Marylebone district, mmn blank.
Illegitimate children are usually registered / known by their mother's maiden surname so why is Henry a Shepherd not a Mower.
I can't see the Mower family in 1841 in the workhouse, I see a family in Hereford Street, William is a coachman.
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his 'parents' were william and hannah mower, they were in the workhouse along with their kids. it is supposed that one of the mowers daughters, either hannah 1824 or maria 1826 had the illegitimate henry and their parents took him on.
in the workhouse at the same time, in 1841, was a james shepard, so its likely he knew the mower girls.
Hannah & William Mower were not in the workhouse in 1841 - they were living in Hereford Street, Marylebone H0107/677/3 f18 page 30
William possibly died in the workhouse infirmary in 1853 and Hannah 1852. It is likely that any children were then resident there
The only James Shepherd in the area in 1841 was age 80 ::)
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There seem to be a lot of assumptions here. If Henry had been William and Hannah's grandson, why not just say grandson on the census, rather than nurse child. They have granddaughter Amelia in the household, she is likely to be illegitimate. She is probably the Emily Mower reg Q1 1849 Marylebone district, mmn blank.
Illegitimate children are usually registered / known by their mother's maiden surname so why is Henry a Shepherd not a Mower.
I can't see the Mower family in 1841 in the workhouse, I see a family in Hereford Street, William is a coachman.
they wanted it kept quiet?
i found them in a workhouse in the 1841 census, along with a james shepard b 1826 (funny lemur41 couldnt find that either).
yes there are a lot of assumptions, but it does fit, in 1871 henry shepard was an engineer... he disappears when james howe appears, its known that 'only eliza knew his (james howes) true identity and she took that to the grave (family tradition). he probably, as a child, thought william and hannah was his parents , and hannah being a 'howe' is pretty compelling i think when it comes to changing your identity.
the only thing that i havnt squared yet.... in derby, his 2 census (as j h ) says he comes from hythe kent. currently i can find no connection.
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You can make anything fit if you want to ???
He may have thought William & Hannah were his parents but it is unlikely he knew that Hannah's maiden name was Howe - why would he need to know
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henry shepard lived a rougish life by the look of it, joining the navy, living in canada, marrying, deserting them, returning to london and fathering another child marrying again (?) before deserting them moving to derby,
Can you please give us the details of these events
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You can make anything fit if you want to ???
He may have thought William & Hannah were his parents but it is unlikely he knew that Hannah's maiden name was Howe - why would he need to know
why not?... im sure his natural mother and her siblings would have mentioed it. he probably didnt need it until he assumed a new identity.
i know its not perfect, but until james howe can be found on any census or certificate prior to 1872, and /or henry shepard can be found post 1871 , its the best ive got and it cannot be disproven, too many coincidences.
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henry shepard lived a rougish life by the look of it, joining the navy, living in canada, marrying, deserting them, returning to london and fathering another child marrying again (?) before deserting them moving to derby,
Can you please give us the details of these events
nope..... it was sent by pm, i do not have the sources, i cannot view canadian records (or i dont know how lol) but henry shepard can be found on the 1861 census as a navy boy in cornwall .
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Naval records for that period are online so hopefully you will be able to locate some for him which may help your search
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Naval records for that period are online so hopefully you will be able to locate some for him which may help your search
where?...lol.. tbh im swamped with info atm that needs checking and investigating, hence the shepard/jarvis marriage info..
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Ancestry have some royal navy records
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Ancestry have some royal navy records
im not on ancestry, im on find my past.
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Ancestry is available free at local libraries in the UK, some also have FindMyPast
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Ancestry is available free at local libraries in the UK, some also have FindMyPast
maybe, but im not travelling all the way into town to use a public computer for an hour or so.
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That is your choice, many of us do if we don't want to or can't afford to take out a subscription.
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FindMyPast's terms & conditions do not allow those with subs to give information from their records that is not available through a free search