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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Caithness => Topic started by: searchr on Wednesday 12 July 17 23:39 BST (UK)

Title: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: searchr on Wednesday 12 July 17 23:39 BST (UK)
I am wondering if anyone has any ideas about my next step.
It seems William TEAT married Margaret BAIN 1727 in Watten. I have found children for him: Jannet, John & Margaret. I am not sure their mother was Margaret, as only the father is given in their baptisms.
Several WorldConnect trees mention the children, with one not mentioning John or Margaret (senior or junior) but adding a Peter-Patrick, an Archibald and an Elizabeth. I haven't been able to find births/ baptisms for any of those three with a William TEAT as father.
None of those WorldConnect trees mention Margaret Bain. Instead they have William's wife as Elspet (or other variations) Sutherland. I have found the marriage of a William TEAT and an Elespet SUTHERLAND in 1721 in Watten.
William and Elespet were probably born in Fife. I've found a possible birth/ baptism for him, with William TEAT and Bessie FOORD as parents, and a marriage for those parents as William TAIT and Bessie FORD.
I haven't been able to find the deaths or burials of William, Margaret or Elespet (did she die before his marriage to Margaret?), or any other TEAT or TAIT people that seem to fit. Subsequent generations of TEATS are mainly spelled TAIT.
Would anyone please have any suggestions.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 13 July 17 03:29 BST (UK)
It seems William TEAT married Margaret BAIN 1727 in Watten. I have found children for him: Jannet, John & Margaret. I am not sure their mother was Margaret, as only the father is given in their baptisms.

Hi searchr,

I'm sorry I don't understand your 'next step' fully?

Do you mean you would like to prove that Margaret was the mother of the above named children or do you mean the next step back (up the ladder)?

Do you have the original baptisms for the children, where/when & who were the Sponsors?
This may hold some clues?

You say the baptisms don't name the mother i.e. do the dates fit with the marriage in 1727 & what leads you to think Margaret is the mother?


Do you have the marriages of any of the children, when/where & who were the witnesses?

Do you know when/where William died & his occupation?
Have you found a MI, Will or anything else regarding William?

Can you list all the children in order please from eldest down to youngest with dates from both marriages?

Do any of all those children (from both marriages) have the mother's name & do any give Williams occupation?

Who were the witnesses on both marriages, were any the same names on both, were they in the same area in Watten?

Sorry for all the questions but I really think it will be hard to crack without some of those details?

Annie







Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: Skoosh on Thursday 13 July 17 10:12 BST (UK)
A Watten Bain invented the electric clock, there's a plaque there to him.  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: searchr on Friday 14 July 17 06:29 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for replying.
The clock & fax Alexander Bain (1810 - 1877) was amazing! I found a ton of things about him, but don't know his ancestry beyond his having a father John from Watten & mother Isabella Waiter (Walter?) from Halkirk, with John's father probably an Alexander from Leanmore. That was from http://www.whittlespublishing.com/userfiles/shop/200/The%20Caithness%20Influence.pdf
I love all the questions:
Do you mean you would like to prove that Margaret was the mother of the above named children or do you mean the next step back (up the ladder)?
Either is fine. I donít mind whether or not it was Margaret or Elespet who was their mother. Iíd just like to know who was the mother: get it right. Iíd also like to get to the next step back, so I can explore my ancestors as far back as I can. There are several Bains closer in the tree too, but it seems to have been a fairly common Caithness name.

Do you have the original baptisms for the children, where/when & who were the Sponsors?
This may hold some clues?
I have the old parish record baptism for John. It was 12 Apr 1730 Northdun, with witnesses John Miller? & Andrew Petrie.

You say the baptisms don't name the mother i.e. do the dates fit with the marriage in 1727 & what leads you to think Margaret is the mother?
The only birth/ baptism dates Iíve seen start from 1727, when William & Margaret married. I havenít seen any between 1721 & 1727.

Do you have the marriages of any of the children, when/where & who were the witnesses?
John Teat m Elizabeth Young 1754 Watten, with no witnesses recorded, with John from Wester Watten & Elizabeth there? in the old parish registers.

Do you know when/where William died & his occupation?
no

Have you found a MI, Will or anything else regarding William?
No. I havenít seen anything that jumped out in the Caithness memorial book, FindMyPast, SP or http://www.oddquine.co.uk/gravestones/

Can you list all the children in order please from eldest down to youngest with dates from both marriages?
Iím only fairly sure of Jannet 1727, Margaret 1728 John 1730 (Northdun as above), all in Watten with William Teat as father. Archibald is b/ bp 1730 according to http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=elizabeth365_1&id=I23723 It also has Jannet 1727 & Peter/ Patrick & Elizabeth with no b/ bp date. From SP search, there are 2 Archibald b/ bp in old parish registers with parents William Tait & Margaret Bain in Watten, but they are 1780 & 1788.

Do any of all those children (from both marriages) have the mother's name & do any give Williams occupation?
Margaret has the possible motherís name (Margaret Bain).

Who were the witnesses on both marriages, were any the same names on both, were they in the same area in Watten?
I have both of them from the old parish registers, but neither gives any witnesses. The first has William being from Bannaskirk & Elizabeth from Strath of Watten. The second has William from Northdun & Margaret from Brabster Dorren.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Thursday 12 October 17 19:43 BST (UK)
William Tait married at Watten to Margaret Bain 11 March 1780 not 1727, their first child was Archibald 27 November 1780, at Watten, calling a first son Archibald suggests Williams parents are Archibald Tait and Helen Fairweather, this couple married a Watten  1 January 1760, all William and Margaret's children born Watten other than Helen born Wick 1790, all this can be found on SP and freereg, Nikitah
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: searchr on Thursday 12 October 17 22:28 BST (UK)
have to go but will check this out further later
I think I've seen that marriage before, but the one I'm talking about is another in 1727. I have the register from SP.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Friday 13 October 17 11:45 BST (UK)
Sorry, yes you are right, the marriage didn't come up with TAIT and variants on SP but does with Teat and Margaret Bain, Nikitah
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 13 October 17 13:57 BST (UK)
How about contacting the Wick Heritage Centre for info'?

http://wickheritage.org/

Skoosh.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: searchr on Saturday 14 October 17 01:57 BST (UK)
Thanks all
will keep investigating
like the idea of the Wick Heritage Centre
bit hectic today
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Saturday 14 October 17 19:27 BST (UK)
you know when you wished you'd never started something ;D Looks like my Tait's maybe of the same tree as yours searchr, mine are John Tait and Margaret Murray, thought John's father was also John and his mother Elspeth Young, so decided to make sure and get his death certificate, no his father was George his mother Esther Murray, John born Watten was , back to the drawing board, Nikitah
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: searchr on Saturday 14 October 17 22:53 BST (UK)
Wow Nikita!
almost
Is that the John Tait that I had as b Watten 1760?
I had him as the possible brother of my Jannet Tait b abt 1774 who m David Small.
I don't have very many certificates, but I do have my Jannet's d cert 1857 at 83y and it does have her as the daughter of John Tait and Elspate Young. Maybe my Jannet and your John were cousins rather than brother and sister and your George who m Esther Murray and my John Tait who m Elspate Young were brothers? It's worth a little more investigating.
Worldconnect scotstar database has a John Tait b much later with parents George Tait and Esther Murray, with John and Margaret marrying in 1810.
I just keep going and going and finding out more and more. One gate closes and another opens. It's very very addictive!
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Sunday 15 October 17 10:30 BST (UK)
Searchr, it's just getting more and more confusing ::) my confusion started with my John Tait in 1841 he is 5years older than Margaret Murray, they married in 1810, by the time everyone told the truth there was about 17 years between them meaning  Margaret was just over 15 years of age and John was turned 30. now I know John was born c 1778 the son of George Tait and Esther Murray, Margaret was born 1795 to Donald Murray and Jean Davidson, this John, I believe was the John Tait mentioned in " Ministers and Men", he says he is a master tailor in 1841  later he is a farmer, his son George takes over the tailoring then moves to Thurso, only problem there is although George is in the 1841 census with his parents age 20 apprentice tailor, I can't find a birth for him, Nikitah.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: Skoosh on Sunday 15 October 17 13:46 BST (UK)
Halkirk claimed to be the "Model!" parish, Watteners replied that theirs was the "Modest!" parish.  ;D

Used to fish there!

Skoosh.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: searchr on Monday 16 October 17 10:23 BST (UK)
like it Skoosh!
Sorry to spell your name wrongly Nikitah.
My head is spinning with all this. I'll be able to try again properly in a day or 2 or 3.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Monday 16 October 17 18:13 BST (UK)
Ah, but Skoosh, can you beat the baths full of salmon from Dunbeath Water? ;D no problem with the name searchr, Nikitah.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 16 October 17 21:34 BST (UK)
Nikita, some elderly Lybster fisherman tried a net from their boat near the mouth of the Dunbeath Water, not strictly legal!  ;D    They caught a Great White Shark & had a photo to prove it. This was a good few years ago but due to the circumstances little was said & there are no Great White Sharks there anyhow?  The net was immediately cut as the boat was right over.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Monday 16 October 17 21:48 BST (UK)
Skoosh, I've heard quite a few tales like that, none legal, we can laugh now  no one left to prosecute, not many fishing boats going out of Dunbeath now either I think Dunbeath had the best fed dogs for miles around and the gamekeepers needed to go to specksavers ;D Nikitah
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 16 October 17 22:21 BST (UK)
Nikitah,  the one that got away!

http://www.glasgownaturalhistory.org.uk/gn25_1/carter_largeshark.pdf

Skoosh.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Monday 16 October 17 22:39 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Skoosh, a lovely story, it could well have ended in disaster though, happy they both survived to tell the tale, Nikitah.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Wednesday 18 October 17 20:48 BST (UK)
 Hi searchr, I'm wondering if George Tate born Bower 27 September 1754 to William Tate is the same George Teat who married Esther Murray 28 June 1777 at Halkirk, my John's Parents, I have found a birth for a Esther Murray  that looks promising 29 January 1756 at Dunnet, father John Murray mother Jannet Mearns, this would make George and Esther about the same age, if so do you think his father William, no mothers name, is yours? .         my problem is I can't find a birth for John Tait born about 1779, there is one without a first name, just Teat, that at a push might fit, 6, August 1781 to George  and Esther, there are other children names to this couple but no John. If George is the son of your William that makes my John, William's grandson ::) my other problem is George and Esther had a son named Robert Tait in February, before they married in June, sooo where does Robert come in, If the ? Teat  born 1781 is John that would be after Esther's father, then the only daughter I can find was born 1783  named Jannet this fits with Jannet Mearns, Esther's Mother , they don't have a William or a Margaret. Confused?, not me, Nikitah.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: searchr on Thursday 19 October 17 02:54 BST (UK)
Hi Nikita,
will take some time and have a little think ....
hmmm ... I do see that as possible, but am not sure how to prove it. It makes some sense. I see what you mean about the Robert, though.
By the way, could you please tell me more or where I can find out more about John Tait in Ministers and Men? All I can see is that it's a book by Rev. Alexander Auld.
Skoosh, it's lovely to hear about someone fishing somewhere nearish to where all the people up there from my tree (in Wick as well as Watten and a few more places) must have been.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: Skoosh on Thursday 19 October 17 12:11 BST (UK)
I used to stay in Watten with friends & fished the Wick River for salmon. A unique accent Caithness, you can listen to examples on the Wick Heritage website.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Thursday 19 October 17 16:56 BST (UK)
Hi searchr, try this     graven-images.org.uk           you might find others there just little snippets but to think its about your relatives makes all the difference. Memorabilia Domestica is another interesting book by the rev Donald Sage , if you haven't read that and you want to down load it I'll see if I can find the link, Nikitah.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: searchr on Sunday 22 October 17 06:51 BST (UK)
Hi Nikita and Skoosh,
I listened to William Sinclair, Skoosh, and liked his accent.
Thanks for the link Nikitah. Basically it seems he was a good person and died when he was 62. I would like that other link, please. I like links.
I've been sidetracked a bit lately but will get back to this tree.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: nikitah on Sunday 22 October 17 20:19 BST (UK)
Hi searcher, try this ,   https://www.archive.org      when you get into the library just enter     memorabilia domestica,  in the search box, enjoy, Nikitah.
Title: Re: TEAT TAIT BAIN SUTHERLAND FORD FOORD Watten and Fife
Post by: searchr on Sunday 05 November 17 03:19 GMT (UK)
I had a little wander around Nikitah and will do more wandering later ... been a bit distracted
Thanks so much all. I'll investigate our connection later too Nikitah, and investigate Wick Heritage Centre a bit more.