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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Waterford => Topic started by: Pdorgan on Thursday 13 July 17 18:25 BST (UK)
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I am looking for a Jones family in the 1911 Census.. and I am confused.. maybe I could get a fresh set of eyes, and thoughts....
I am researching the following Family of my GGF.
William Jones B:abt 1855, Co Tipperary D:19 Dec 1912 2 Beau St, Waterford [Death info not correct]
Margaret Loughnane B:abt, 1873 Co. Tipperary D:10 May 1909, Dungarvan, Waterford
Children:
Mary Ann Jones B:20 jan 1900 Dungarvan
Alice Jones B: 2 Nov 1902 Dungarvan
Elizabeth Jones B: 2 Sep 1904 Dungarvan
Mary Jones B:28 May 1906 Dungarvan
Christopher Jones B:17 Jun 1908 Dungarvan
All children lived past the 1911 census
Here is a search link which gives all the childrens birth records:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=&namel=Jones&location=Dungarvan&yyfrom=1897&yyto=1910&type=B&submit=Search
I find the family ( William, Margaret, Mary Ann) in 1901 Census in St Mary's Street, Dungavan No.1, Waterford.
Williams Death record: (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05349/4490240.pdf)
Shows his place of death as 2, Beau St, Waterford , death reported and witnessed by his daughter Mary Ann. his wife Margaret predeceasing him.
The family reccolection is that after Williams death the daughters were sent to two differnt aunts to live, and the Son was put in a home. this is what I trying to confirm. starting with the 1911 Census.
But when I go to the 1911 Census and look at 2 Beau st, (Waterford No. 4 Urban (Part of)) I find a different Jones family.. Coincidence? do I have the wrong address..?
This William Jones is married to an Anne ( she is still alive) they are given as CofI my faimliy is listed on 1901 Census as RC.
I am not finding any of the family in 1911
Anyway I'll continue searching, but any ideas appreciated
Peter
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I don't think that death is your William, it says he was a Caretaker and the William Jones in Beau St in 1911 is a Caretaker of YMCA.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_No__4_Urban__part_of_/Beau_Street/671052/
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Son Christopher born 1908 Main St., Dungarvan and father was confectioner-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01652/1659346.pdf
Added- Alice born 1902 Main St., Dungarvan and father shop keeper-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01887/1733600.pdf
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Sinann, Your right about the caretaker .. Missed that.. I am led to beleive William died about 1912 / 13 back to the Civil records then...
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aghadowey, yes I found all thier birth records in the civil registry ... thanks
Plus a daughter who died at 4 1/2 months old in 1899....
Couldnt find the marriage though.. checked Waterford and Tipperary..
Thanks
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Marriage 1898 Limerick-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10412/5791266.pdf
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Woot!! Great find aghadowey !! :)
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Wasn't difficult to find- just searched for William Jones married 1890s and bride was shown in index.
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William and Margaret Jones in 1901 census?
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Dungarvan_No__1/St__Mary_s_Street/1770916
Added- have to go out for a bit but will continure searching later if nothing else posted ;)
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I belive this is Margarets Bith Record
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03453/2267804.pdf
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Is Christopher the youngest child?
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Yes Christopher is the youngest child
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OK modified first post to strike through incorrect death info for William
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https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=&namel=Jones&location=Dungarvan&yyfrom=1897&yyto=1910&type=B&submit=Search
This search link will give you all of the Childrens birth records
I will add to original post...
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The address on Christopher's birth is Main St,
There is no Main St in either Census so I went hunting on the maps, the modern Google map gives Main St between O'Connell St and Castle St
https://goo.gl/maps/CKVR19cL44w
so does the oldest map on the OSI mapviewer
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,626000,593154,11,8
but the other two maps on the mapviewer give it's name as Parnell St.
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,626000,593154,11,9
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,626000,593154,11,3
Parnell St. is listed in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Dungarvan_No__1/
but not on 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Dungarvan_No__1_Urban/
chances are it is there but it's one of the hidden streets like Mitchel St.
https://www.johngrenham.com/blog/2017/02/13/the-strange-afterlife-of-the-census-microfilms/
Granted having said all that there is a Patrick's st in 1911 that seems to have appeared out of no where
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Kathleen and Margaret are listed as being born on St Mary's Street.
I see that in 1911 Census, but no likley mispelled names that being said.. ill go through them one by one later when I get home..
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I dont see any Alice Jones born Waterford on either census so was wondering about this young lady age 19
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JN45-MZ2
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I dont see any Alice Jones born Waterford on either census so was wondering about this young lady age 19
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JN45-MZ2
mother given as Kate Jones and born co. Kilkenny
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A Christopher John Jones, born c1908 Dungarvan Waterford going to US (arrived 7 Sept.1930 N.Y.)- sister May Jones of Dublin City, last residence Emly Tpperary.
Same birthdate as your Christopher Jones, died 2013-
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=108734826&ref=acom
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1) the reference the Alice in not correct, as I know she was in Dublin in 1927 when my father was born, and living the last part of her life in England. As far as I know she was never in Us.
2) reference to Christopher is correct he did emigrate to US and correct death info also, at 100+ years
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Kathleen died when she was only four days old, poor thing.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05786/4636521.pdf
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4 1/2 months old.. 4 days with Enterits I think
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So I checked all the entries for St Mary Street, Dungarvan in 1911 I dont see any transcription errors that could be my people...
And I have searched 1911 census a nuber of time... Nothing..
There is a chance the Son Christopher is in St Joseph's Industrial School Clonmel, Tipperrary, I assume the school should be in either Clonmel Rual, or east. but I cant find it in 1911 Census by browsing? is there a townland index or map where I can look up ang narrow down the numer of Townlands to browse through
Thanks for the help..
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People in institutions should be listed by just their initials.
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St Josephs is in townland Ferryhouse. Names listed in 1911 census for this industrial school. But I do not see any Jones there.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Clonmel_Rural/Ferryhouse/818963/
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Thanks very much, and not only no Jones, but also very few children under the age of 10.
I am starting the believe the whole family somehow are not in the 1911 Census.
Peter
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I recently made a little headway on this issue, so here is an update...
First I finally found the 3 girls in the 1911 census living together in a convent in Nenagh. here is the link...
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Nenagh_West_Urban/Gaol_Street/820818/
They are listed as Maggie & Mary Jones and Lillie and Nancy Gones.
I did also visit Dungarvan on a recent Vacation and met with the Achivist at Dungarvan Library. She was very helpful and was able to confirm a few things for me:
Parnell Street and Main Street are the same place.
It has been missed for the 1911 Census on the NAI website, it will be added sometime in the future.
None of the family is listed in the 1911 census on Main street. (She checked to Microfilm copy)
William Jones had closed his business and transferred the store he was renting in 1909 ( As per the tax roll)
So here is what I am still looking for:
1911 Census listing of Death registration for William Jones.
1911 Census listing or any records for Christopher John Jones between 1908 and departure to the US in 1930.
Peter
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What about this William Jones, from Dungarvan, died 1915.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1915/05270/4463097.pdf
Now trade does not appear to match - but were there any others of that name in Dungarvan? Apparently not.
Difference in age is well within normal "error bars".
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Wexflyer,
Thanks, yes I did see that, I had that on the possibility list.....
I was never confident enough to assume it was the correct William, 1) because of the age 2) the occupation, & 3) This William died in the Workhouse, but we know he had money on his death
But then I recently found the attached in Irish newspaper archives ...
I can see its very possible that the age is in error, as he had no family left in Dungarvan, I do believe he was 59 not 69.. I can see how that would happen...
His occupation is listed on the Death Registration as Cabinet maker, which I believe was his fathers occupation.
The fact he died in the workhouse is not because he was poor, but he was there being hospitalised, and cared for his cancer, as he had no family. Do you think this is a resonable assumption??
I still cant find him in the 1911 Census, maybe he was in the Workhouse already in 1911..
Thanks
Peter
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With that obituary, you can be certain it is your ancestor! The addresses and details match very well.
Ages - a 10 year discrepancy is routine! Normal. Just this weekend I was again looking at records for a great-great-grandfather of mine. Death registration says he was 61, burial register 80!
Workhouse - it is clear from the death registration that he was there for medical treatment, not as a pauper. By 1915, the hospital aspect was much more important than in early years.
Finally, have you located his grave - is there a gravestone?
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No, I didn't find his grave yet, I did visit Dungarvan in May, but didn't have this information at that time.
I am assuming he is buried at St Mary's Church.. I will try to contact them...
Thanks