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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: mr angry on Friday 14 July 17 19:47 BST (UK)

Title: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: mr angry on Friday 14 July 17 19:47 BST (UK)
Hi all,

I'm researching my great-great-great grandparents called Robert Heaps (born ABT 1832 in Clitheroe, Lancashire) and Ann Heaps formerly Hames (born ABT 1842 in Hampshire). Robert was a soldier and was in the 97th Foot Soldiers who went over to Canada this being in 1857. He married Ann Hames in 1867 and from what I can find they only had 1 son (my great-great grandfather) William John Heaps born around 1865. I can find Robert in 1861 in the Military Invaliding Depot St Marys Barracks No 1 as an inmate but unable to trace him in any other census' after that. He was discharged from the army in 1877 after being Court Martial 3 times!

In terms of Ann and their son William John, I can find them in the 1871 census as lodgers and Ann's occupation being a soldiers wife which is correct but again unable to find anything for Ann after this. I can find William John in the 1911 in which he is married and has children.

If anyone is able to find any information on Robert, Ann or William John I would greatly appreciate it as he seems to be the only grandfather I have so far who seems to have disappeared from some of the census'. Either that or I just haven't been looking in the right place!
Thanks, Chelsea.
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: PaulineJ on Friday 14 July 17 20:37 BST (UK)
You don't give a birthplace for WJ Heaps b 1865, not a location in 1871, nor 1911, nor info like how long wed by 1911 and his wife's name/ any children.
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: mr angry on Friday 14 July 17 20:59 BST (UK)
As far as I know William John was born in Hampshire and him and his mother Ann were living in Millbrook, Hampshire in 1871. By 1911 William John was living in Reading, Berkshire and married to Ellen Maria Withers for 8 years (in 1911) and had 5 children together (Ellen already had a son from a previous marriage).

Robert and Ann were married in Hampshire in 1867 and then Roberts' Trial place for his Court Martial took place in Dover (all 3 took place in 1870) and was in the army for a further 7 years before he was discharged.

We know the info about William John after 1911 including when he died in 1933. The only reason we found out his father was called Robert was due to another family member gaining his marriage certificate stating that his father was called Bob Heaps who was listed as being a army pensioner.
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: avm228 on Friday 14 July 17 21:10 BST (UK)
Being born before the marriage, it looks likely he is the William John Hames baptised at Millbrook, Hants on 9 September 1866, son of Ann Hames.

Birth reg as William John Hames, Sep qtr 1866 South Stoneham 2c 62.
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: groom on Friday 14 July 17 21:14 BST (UK)
So is this his birth?

Births Sep 1866   
Hames    William J       
S. Stoneham    2c   62

How do you know that his father was actually Robert Heaps as he was born before the marriage?
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: mr angry on Friday 14 July 17 21:19 BST (UK)
Thanks guys for finding that I did not even think to consider the fact that he was born before the marriage for some reason.

We got his fathers name though his marriage certificate :)
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: Little Nell on Friday 14 July 17 21:19 BST (UK)
The marriage is recorded here:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6NZ-HF4

Nell
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: groom on Friday 14 July 17 21:24 BST (UK)
I'm afraid that because he named Robert on the marriage certificate, it doesn't necessarily mean that he was his natural father, he could have been his step father and he took his name after his mother married him. 

No father is named on his birth registration on the GRO site and from what avm228 has said there is no father mentioned on the baptism either. 
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: mr angry on Friday 14 July 17 21:33 BST (UK)
Thanks Nell, I did find that record as well but as groom has stated there is a possibility that Robert wasn't his biological father.

I did try gaining Williams birth certificate from the General Records Office but they replied saying that they couldn't find a record for a William John Heaps in the time period that we gave and it did make me wonder whether Robert was his biological father. I might have to try them again but by stating his surname and being Hames instead of Heaps.
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: groom on Friday 14 July 17 22:21 BST (UK)
This is what you need to quote

HAMES, WILLIAM  JOHN     -     
GRO Reference: 1866  S Quarter in SOUTH STONEHAM  Volume 02C  Page 62

I'm afraid it probably won't tell you his father, but it will give you his exact date and place of birth.
 
Title: Re: 3x great grandparents somehow disappeared!
Post by: croasdad on Thursday 06 January 22 20:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Chelsea, don't think this will help in your search but as a matter of interest it seems Robert was baptised 06/06/1833 in Clitheroe with Henry Heaps as father.  My great great grandfather Jonathan Croasdale was baptised on 24/02/1833 and although no father was mentioned at the time in the parish records, a Henry Heaps / Labourer was mentioned as father when he got married in 1863 at St Magdalene in Clitheroe. I can't see any parish record of Jonathan's mother (Mary Croasdale) being married.  Seems possible then Robert (and his elder brother Joseph) are Jonathan's half brothers? Do you know where Henry is buried?   He might be my x3 great grandfather!
Thanks David