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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Londoner 1 on Saturday 15 July 17 11:17 BST (UK)
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My cousin (*) (born in 1943) is trying to find out information about her father, who was French. He was not married to her mother, but a very frequent "visitor".
My cousin (*) believes he was a seaman, who had something to do with the French resistance in WW2. As they Lived in Liverpool, a big sea port at the time, it makes sense. My hubby, who is older, but a child himself at the time (who lived with (*) and her mum for quite a while), thinks he may have been a merchant seaman, because when ever my hubby saw him, he was never in a uniform.....so maybe a merchant seaman or maybe as (*) says, working with the resistance.
When (*)'s mother died a few years ago, she found an old envelope in her handbag and also a short "love note", which her mother had kept since (*) was a tiny baby ! The address on the old envelope was CONAN CHARLES, c/o 39 Rue Du Dr Maguan, Sursenes Seine, Paris.....the writing is hard to decipher, so the spelling may be wrong. Her mother must have kept it as her contact address for him.
Maybe he was a lodger at this address, although (*) seems to think that he might have been living there with his mother.
Would her father's name have been Conan Charles.....or Charles Conan ? He was known by the name of Charlo, maybe a nickname, which is what (*)'s mother always called him.
At 74, (*) now has this great urge to know who her father was. Maybe he was married when he was having an affair in Liverpool with her mother. Maybe (*) has half brothers or sisters.
We just don't have a clue as to where to start looking !!!!!! PLEASE can you help or advise us....or maybe you might be able to throw some light on this and be able to find some information.
(*) Moderator Comment:
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Google shows that the address might be "39 Rue Du Dr Magnan, 92150 Suresnes, France"- just search for "39 Rue Du Dr Magnan" Paris to see map/streetview as well as several references in French ;)
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"Charlot" was the French nickname for Charlie Chaplin
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Thank you so much Aghadowey. I would mail a letter there if I thought it might reveal something (anything !), but as Charlo would now be about 103 years old and probably long dead, it's very unlikely that there's any remembrance / knowledge of him now.
Thank you ShaunJ. I guess now, that his name must have been Charles CONAN (could also be Coran), as the writing on the envelope is quite hard to read. At least we have found out his surname ! I believe he was born around 1910-1914, but Patti doesn't know which area.
Can you, or can anyone help us any further ? It would be so fantastic for Patti to know if she has any half brothers or sisters....or any family at all.
Can you advise what WE can do to try to solve this ?
Hopefully, for Patti's sake, it's not a lost cause.
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http://archive.is/CVCiK#selection-153.0-204.1
- there is a list here of members of the Forces Navales de la France Libre, which was the naval branch of Free French Forces during WWII.
Among these names is Charles Conan, b. 17 March 1909 St. Cast ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Cast-le-Guildo ), he also appears to be listed as "marine marchande" (merchant marine).
I hoped to find this man's birth in the hopes that there would be "marginal notes" referencing a later marriage and/or death - unfortunately the Côtes d'Armor archives are not working for me right now. Also, not all departmental archives will have births as late as 1909 up yet, coverage post-1900 even for births that are over 100 years old tends to be a bit patchy.
An alternative would be to contact Saint-Cast-le-Guildo directly (the Mairie should handle such requests) and request a "copie intégrale" of his birth record.
ETA: this site has him as deceased 1954 in Cancale
http://www.francaislibres.net/liste/fiche.php?index=61923
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Hello Jorose......you've taken my breath away.
I have just been chatting with my cousin and telling her of your findings and she was nearly in tears (VERY happy ones). We just can't believe that there is some information on her father !
I don't understand the links that you've posted and for some reason, they won't open for me.
My internet went down for some reason and I've not been able to get on here for a while. I've been on to BT for ages and it's now working again, so I want to give it another try, to connect to the links you've given me.......if I still can't connect, I will need to come back and ask you a couple of things about them.
Jorose, so far, this progress has reached far beyond any expectations ! Your information tells us that Charles CONAN was born 17th March 1909 and that he died in December 1954, also, his place of birth and place of his death. That means he was only 45 when he died.
This is all SO fantastic !!!!!
Would you know of any possible marriage in between these times ??
We thank you from the bottom of our hearts for all that you've found out so far.
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Jorose, please may I ask you the department and also address to obtain a birth certificate for Charles CONAN. I know you said to contact Saint-Cast-le Guido directly and that the Mairie should handle it.
I have no knowledge of any French what so ever, so would you be able to help me by advising me what address to write to ?
I understand that the archives are not working for you right now........guess we're just getting far too excited !
A million "thank you's" would never be enough !
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Jorose, I have managed to find out who/what a Mairie is....and then searched for an address in St. Cast, France to email. I have now enquired there as to how I would obtain a birth certificate for Charles Conan. Hope I get a positive reply from there.
I ultimately managed to open the links that you previously posted and they were absolutely amazing.....thank you so much (wish I could speak or understand even a little bit of French !). It was all okay though and more than interesting too.
The HUGE question now, is how do I find out if Charles Conan was ever married ?
Maybe he had a wife in France and even a family, when he fathered my cousin ?
Can you advise me at all.
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Good morning Jorose....I have now applied to St. Cast for a birth certificate and also applied for a death certificate to Cancale.
Also, I wrote to the address on the old envelope that my cousin found with her father's name on. Even thought it's VERY old, I was maybe hoping that the house address was owned (not rented)and maybe passed to another member of the family. A VERY slim chance I know, but none the less, a chance. Grasping at straws I know !
Please would you be able to guide me as to how I might find out if Charles CONAN was ever married, or had any children in France ? I don't have a clue as to where to start to look, or where to even enquire. I just don't know what else to do........
Sincere thanks.
P.S. I'm DEFINITELY no expert at ancestry, far from it in fact, but I am a member of Ancestry.co.uk if that is of any help ?
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Evening!
Unfortunately there is no easy way to check for a later marriage/death - records will not have been put online and French law restricts access to more recent records.
His death certificate may refer to a spouse and often the informant/witnesses on records are relatives. It is also possible that a birth certificate may have what are called "marginal notes". These are cross-references to later records and may for example list a marriage or death. The absence of a marginal note does not mean there was no marriage.
The best place to look for records is the departmental archives. For St-Cast, this is Côtes-d'Armor.
http://archives.cotesdarmor.fr/index.php (choose "Archives En Ligne")
- it is now working for me. Unfortunately they have not yet put 1909 births online for St. Cast.
They do have censuses ("Listes nominatives") but these are not name indexed. I believe you will find Charles in St. Cast in 1911, in page 38. The family at that time appears to be:
Marie Conan, 25? (May be 35?)
children
Marthe, 13
Constance, 8
Charles, 2
Under "Registres paroissiaux et d'état civil" you can find some records relating to this family if not to Charles b. 1909 directly.
Constance Conan was b. 3 March 1903, the legitimate daughter of Charles Conan aged 36 and Marie Plessix aged 28. Marginal notes show she married first in Paris, 15e, I think 1922?, husband Felix Charbonnier, a second marriage is mentioned in 1973, she passed away in 1976.
Marthe Conan was b. 25 Mar 1898 to the same parents, she married in 1920 in Suresnes to an Alphonse Robert, and again in 1929 in Suresnes (difficult to read name, B? Boitrer?), and died in 1981 in Saint-Ouen-l'Aumône.
This family are together with another daughter, Marie, in 1906 (page 19, "Listes nominatives" for St Cast) - so either Charles Conan Sr was away in 1911 or he died sometime between fathering Charles Jr and the 1911 census.
The fact that older sister Marthe was married in Suresnes is a good sign as far as the Charles b. 1909 St Cast being your Charles who had some connection to Suresnes later in life.
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Ohhhhhh Jorose, I thought you might have needed to give up on me, due this being such a difficult and time consuming problem. I can't tell you how happy we both are that you've given us SO much of your time and knowledge.
The information that you've posted is wonderfully informative and I will now need to "digest" it. Once I get it all sorted out in my head, then I can try to dig further.....at least as a "very senior citizen" I have spare time to look into these things, once I know "what to" and "where to" look, thanks to you.
Remember that I originally said my cousin had found an old envelope in her mother's handbag, well the name on the envelope was her father's name AND c/o Mdme Boitier (spelling?). You have now managed to "identify" that connection for us.
I just don't know how to thank you for all the time you've spent on this "problem" and for all your kindness. You must have done such a lot of work and research for us and we SO appreciate your hard work. You really are a star !
I'll do my best now and see if I can come up with any more........
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Hi,
http://gw.geneanet.org/lrenouard?lang=en&pz=laurent+yves+guy&nz=marquer&ocz=0&p=charles+mathurin&n=conan
According to his marriage record, his parents are Michel CONAN, farmer, and Marie DANJOU.
Charles Mathurin CONAN was born in 1866, not in 1870 (six and dix look alike because of the handwriting). In 1866, his father was a stableman.
http://gw.geneanet.org/grutfruh?n=connan&oc=&p=michel
David
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Hello Davidqueneherve....thank you so very much for your information and links.
I am now SOOOOOO confused, as some of your information seems to conflict with Jorose ?
Please may I very respectfully ask which one is correct.
The naval records definitely seemed to fit in with Charles Conan, which is where Jorose was kind enough to get it all started for me and there after, all the research seemed to fit in too.
But now I'm SO confused.....or am I not reading this correctly (my senior's brain often needs a helping hand lol). Hopefully, with my lack of experience you will be able to straighten this out for me.
Please know how much I truly appreciate you all trying to help me.
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Hi,
There is no conflict. You are thinking of Charles CONAN junior and I am talking about his father Charles Mathurin CONAN and his grandfather Michel CONAN.
David
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Jorose and davidqueneherve,
Thank you SO very much Davidqueneherve, I appreciate that so much.
Do I now have this correct, especially dates of births, deaths and locations ?
Paternal line of Charles CONAN born 1909 17.3.1909. St. Cast ....died 12.12.1954. Cancale.
Father of Charles b. 1909 was Charles Mathurin Conan born 3.9.1870.
Grandfather of Charles Conan born 1909 was Michel Conan (Connan) born 1828 and died 17.2.1906
Can you clarify for me too......the tree for Charles Mathurin Conan (b1870) shows one of his children as Charles Marie Pierre Conan as born in 1901. Did this child die and they called their next male child Charles (b.1909) too ?
I'm so sorry that my brain has grown old and daft and that I'm being a total pain in the rear to you both. I just wish I could express to you how much I appreciate what you have both done / are still doing to help me.
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For Charles Mathurin Conan his year of birth 1870 is a misreading for 1866. The records are online with a free access.
I don't know if the child born in 1901 died in infancy. It seems very likely because in the 1906 census, he is not listed among the children. It's view 19 on 34
1) CONAN Charles, 40, Plancoët, F, chef de ménage, platrier, patron
2) PLESSIX Marie, 30, St Cast, F, femme
3) CONAN Marie, 8, St Cast, F, enfant
4) CONAN Marthe, 7, St Cast, F, enfant
5) CONAN Constance, 3, St Cast, F, enfant
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Charles Marie CONAN, passed away in 1903 at the age of 19 months (Saint-Cast 23/06/1903 frame 55 on 1115)
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Sincere thanks davidqueneherve.