RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: kiwikate on Saturday 15 July 17 23:42 BST (UK)
-
Frederick married Jessie Brown June 21st 1872 Knox Church Dunedin in 1878 he renewed his license at the Buckeye Hotel in Outram They had 2 children I know of Ellen Florence Harper and Thomas Poole Harper trying to find more info on Frederick
Thanks :)
-
Hello...
If you've not seen it, here is his probate file...
http://tinyurl.com/yb2w38mh (http://tinyurl.com/yb2w38mh)
Not that informative from a family history point of view.
Regards
Beg
-
Just collecting data:
DEATH INDEX:
Frederick Adolphus HARPER d 1886 age 57 (b abt 1829*), registered in Taieri, Otago, Sep Qtr 1886.
Frederick Adolphus HARPER d 1930 age 57 (b abt 1873)
*Other records, cemetery, gazette, say Frederick died 20 Nov 1885 at his Outram Hotel, age 51, so born about 1834.
BURIAL 1885: Buried 23 Nov at West Taieri Cemetery,
Frederick A HARPER age 51 years. Died 23* Nov 1885 (sic).
Block 24. Plot 17
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search
BURIAL 1930: Buried 2 May at Andersons Bay Cemetery.
Frederick Adolphus HARPER age 57, Labourer, Native of Outram, died 2* May 1930 (*sic).
Last address: 20 Bridgeman St, Dunedin.
Block 112. Plot 158
ESTATE 1885:
The New Zealand Gazette, 1860-1894
Frederick Adolphus HARPER, died 20 November 1885, of Outram.
Placed under the charge of the Public Trustee : Value of Estate under £2100
CEMETERY RECORDS:
Frederick A HARPER buried 23 Nov 1885, Plot 17, Block 24
Died 20 Nov 1885 age 51. Grave site is bare. From newspaper: Frederick Adolphus HARPER, hotel keeper of Outram died 20 Nov at his residence, Outram Hotel.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19120408.2.13
Jessie HARPER, died 6 Apr 1912, age 78 years. Not recorded in West Taieri Cemetery index or on headstone.
Widow. Died at residence of son on law JJ Louden of 730 King street, of Lairg, Sutherlandshire, relict of F A HARPER of Outram. Funeral 9 April 1912. West Taieri Cemetery. Gaelic Society members to attend.
BIRTHS: to parents Frederick Adolphus & Jessie
1873: Ellen HARPER (parents Frederick & Jessie)
1875: Mary Ann HARPER (parents Frederick Adolphus & Jessie)
1878: Thomas Poole HARPER (parents Frederick Adolphus & Jessie)
Cannot find a birth index for a Frederick Adolphus HARPER in or around 1872/73 - or under BROWN (mms) ???
MARRIAGES in Knox Church (maybe some of the others are related):
1861: John HARPER, full age, to TAYLOR on 14 Oct
1872: Frederick Adolphus HARPER full age. To BROWN on 21 Jun.
1875: Alexander HARPER full age, to MALONEY on 5 Apr..
1898: George Albert HARPER age 43y, to WING on 27 Apr.
MARRIAGE Index: daughter?
1895: Mary Ann HARPER to William Robinson RACE
MARRIAGE 1919: son?
Frederick Adolphus HARPER to Marion Christie BAIN
WW1 NZ Army Reserves, 1st Division: son?
Frederick Adolphus HARPER, Driver, of James Jeffs Stables, King Street, Dunedin
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Possible trail - to be proved or disproved!
Parents: John HARPER and Elizabeth
A Batch lot of Baptisms in 1840, Lymptone, Devon.
All on 17 March 1740.
Frederick Adolphus HARPER
Julia Augusta HARPER
Allen Augustus HARPER
On 4 Jan 1835: William Henry HARPER
On 5 March 1824: Harriet Charlotte HARPER
1841 CENSUS: Devonshire Place, St Sidwell, Exeter, Devon
Elizabeth HARPER 40, Widow, Ind - N
Ellen " 20 - N
Louisa " 15 - N
Harriet " 15 - Y
Julia " 15-Y
Allen " 11 - Y
Frederick " 9 - Y
Elizabeth HARPER 13 - FS - Y
Harriet HARPER 50, Visitor Ind - N
Mary ", 35 - N
Sophia ", 30, N
The way this census is laid out, is 3 separate 'family' groups:
1) Elizabeth the widow and her 6 children.
2) Elizabeth the F.S., probably a niece
3) Harriet the visitor and her 2 adult daughters (or D-inlaw)
1851 CENSUS: 6 Devonshire Place, St Sidwell, Exeter, Devon
HO107 Piece 1868 / Folio 218 / Pg11
Head: Elizabeth HARPER 59, widow, Fund Holder, b London, Middlesex
Dau: Harriet HARPER 26, unm, b Lympstone, Devon
Visitor: Eliza BIRMINGHAM 11, b Broadclist, Devon
Servant: Susan CLARK 15, b Broadclist Devon
This looks like the son Allen of John & Elizabeth:
MARRIAGE 1858: Allen Augustus HARPER, son of John HARPER
Married in Adelaide, Australia 1858, to Mary Ann Strickland (dau of Richard).
DEATH 1867 - PROBATE UK:
Allen Augustus HARPER, late of Port Louis, Island of Mauritius, gentleman.
Died 2 Aug 1867at Port Louis. Administration granted 2 Jul 1867 to Frederick Row, Peterborough, Northampton, the attorney of Mary Ann HARPER , widow, relict, of Melbourne, Victoria (Australia)
He was a Master Mariner.
Keeping looking .....
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Allen Augustus in Victoria, Aus, Chief officer of the Wyvern, 3rd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4804632
I cannot see this birth on BDM, however, there is this one:
Reg. year1855 Reg. no1151 HARPER John Allan Allan and Mary Anne (Mclean)
Then:
Reg. year1859 Reg. no17108 HARPER Lizzie Ellen Allen Augustus and Mary Ann (Strickland)
Reg. year1861 Reg. no18112 HARPER Emeline Marian Allen Augustus and Mary Ann (Strickland)
Marriage:
Reg. year1887 Reg. no2160 HARPER Emmeline Marian to ROW Edward Mawly
Reg. year1899 Reg. no4419 HARPER Lizzie Ellen to BRADFORD Wm Arth
Death:
Reg. year1925 Reg. no11799 BRADFORD Lizzie parents HARPER Allan Gustavous and Marian (Stickland)
Reg. year1929 Reg. no6850 ROWE Emmeline Marion parents HARPER Allen and Mary Ann (Strickland)
Jamjar
-
Thanks for that
-
A snippet about the estate of Frederick Adolphus Harper [1885]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18851219.2.2.6?query=frederick%20adolphus%20harper
Minniehaha.
-
Jessie was probably, Johanna:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18860608.2.33
Johanna HARPER, licensee renewal Outram Hotel 1886
Let us know Kiwikate, if this is all helping any? Does anything so far ring any bells, with other information however small, that you might have about Frederick Adolphus HARPER?
He was reasonably 'old' when he married Jessie - so he may have been married before.
Cheers
AMBLY
-
great ty all info is helpful
-
Allen Augustus' wife had a son in NZ in 1863:
1863/17758 Harper Alfred Thomas Mary Ann and Allen Augustus
Visiting his brother, maybe?
An interesting article mentioning Emmeline Marion Harper:
http://www.rlcnews.com.au/main/about-us/history/families/part-a/row-family/
Lizzie Ellen Harper's husband was a Dr who eloped to NZ with his first wife:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article199352815
Lizzie and he are buried at Box Hill Cemetery:
Box Hill VIC CE 2239
Bradford Elizabeth 1925
Bradford William Arthur 1931
Bradford Arthur Bampyfylde 1941 (VICBDM does not list parents' names for Arthur)
Mm, the mother of Arthur is neither the Good Drs first wife or Lizzie:
Reg. year1890 Reg. no22131 BRADFORD Arthur Bamfylde parents Wm Arthur and Edith Maud (Mann)
J.
-
From reply #2......
"MARRIAGE 1919: son?
Frederick Adolphus HARPER to Marion Christie BAIN"
Wife's birth?
1882/16798 Bain Marion Christie Annie William Love
OR
1875/2009 Bain Marion Christie Elizabeth John
Remarried? ...... death?
1961/27926 Cubitt Marion Christie 86Y
OR
1966/26004 Smart Marion Christie 82Y
Burial details for Marion Christie Smart:
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=134262&type=Cremation
Probates for both women......
https://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14701386
https://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14695875
Minniehaha.
-
thanks for that Frederick Adolphus died 1877 he was s hotel keeper in outram dunedin think i need to get his death cert Kiwikate
-
Hi Kiwikate,
It is better to purchase a "Printout" which is a photocopy of the register entry,it often has more information but being a death it is only as good as the informant.
If know this is what you could expect to find.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/dataCollected/death
Cheers Janette
-
thanks for that Frederick Adolphus died 1877 he was s hotel keeper in outram dunedin think i need to get his death cert Kiwikate
The only death I can find around 1877 is this one......
1876/3076 Harper Frederick 40Y
[He died on 3.12.1876]
His drowning?:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18761216.2.13?query=frederick%20harper
Minniehaha.
-
thanks for that Frederick Adolphus died 1877 he was s hotel keeper in outram dunedin think i need to get his death cert Kiwikate
Hi ...
As per his Probate record (mentioned earlier in this thread) - he died on 20 November 1885.
~ Lu
-
Hi kiwikate
Further to all the info posted earlier by AMBLY, I'm sure I can now confirm family to which Frederick Adolphus HARPER belonged. ;)
Possible trail - to be proved or disproved!
Parents: John HARPER and Elizabeth
A Batch lot of Baptisms in 1840, Lymptone, (Lympstone) Devon.
All on 17 March 1740.
Frederick Adolphus HARPER
Julia Augusta HARPER
Allen Augustus HARPER
On 4 Jan 1835: William Henry HARPER
On 5 March 1824: Harriet Charlotte HARPER
1841 CENSUS: Devonshire Place, St Sidwell, Exeter, Devon
Elizabeth HARPER 40, Widow, Ind - N
Ellen " 20 - N
Louisa " 15 - N
Harriet " 15 - Y
Julia " 15-Y
Allen " 11 - Y
Frederick " 9 - Y * *
Elizabeth HARPER 13 - FS - Y
Harriet HARPER 50, Visitor Ind - N
Mary ", 35 - N
Sophia ", 30, N
So, yes, despite being born circa 1834, he was baptised in 1840, at Lympstone Parish, Devon, along with his siblings Julia and Allen. [Incidentally, Allen's mariners record shows he was born 29 April 1829 at Lympstone - and went to sea as a boy in 1844.]
It looks as if the father > John HARPER > died at Lympstone, in 1840 ? (Need to go back and re-check that listing.)
As it transpired, John and Elizabeth HARPER had quite a number of other children prior to Frederick's birth - in fact he was near the tail-end of his family. Finding them all (and the parents' marriage) was something of a mission - stretching back from Frederick by some 20 years, and spanning two counties. But the baptism records for the children had a common thread all showing the father John HARPER listed as "gentleman". [Because John doesn't show up in census records, haven't as yet been able to establish what his occupation was. ]
~ Lu
continues next >>
-
Frederick Adolphus HARPER :
Happily Frederick left a clue in the name he gave to his son, Thomas Poole HARPER (b. 1878).
[And initially I'd thought "POOLE" might be the maiden surname of Frederick's mother Elizabeth - but no - and there's an interesting couple of twists along the way before we get to Elizabeth. ]
Frederick's older siblings (whose names I'll add later) had been born in Middlesex and baptised in Marylebone Parish.
A brother born 10 May 1820, baptised 7 June 1820, was named Thomas Pool (without the "e") HARPER.
I couldn't see any "trees" published online for this family at all and hadn't happened on a marriage for the parents before 1813 when there was a baptism of Robert Hooper HARPER and his brother, John.
Finally, in the marriage register for Westminster - St. James, Piccadilly, was this. ;)
No : 111 - St James, Piccadilly ( Middlesex )
John HARPER, Esquire, of the Parish of St. Marylebone in this County, and, Elizabeth REYNELL, of this Parish, were married in this church by licence this day 11 April 1812 by me
Thomas Poole HOOPER, A.M., Minister.
In the presence of > Robert HOOPER and Harriet HARPER
[Source: ancestry.com - Bishop's Transcripts. ]
------
The minister, Thomas Poole HOOPER I found, was at the time of the above marriage, the Rector of the church of St Mary, (New Shoreham), Sussex as well as Vicar of Sompting (also in Sussex), which meant that he had come to London to marry this couple. So a family connection ?? Well, it seems that the Robert HOOPER (witness) had married Elizabeth's mother in 1802 (which was after Elizabeth's birth).
Robert HOOPER was a prominent physician who died in 1835 - articles about him though don't clarify whether he was Elizabeth REYNELL's father - or whether in fact he had any children.
But somebody else I found had gathered information for the HOOPER side of the family which is choc full of info, so I'll leave you to digest that in the meantime. ;D
The HOOPER family of Somerset :
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/HOOPER/2012-06/1339509442
~ Lu
-
Marriage
St. Leonard, Shoreditch, (Middlesex) ENG
3 June 1802
Robert HOOPER, Bachelor and Elizabeth Ann REYNELL, spinster
Witnesses : John Macintosh (? looks like) and George LIMMING
[A Marriage Bonds and Allegations record of 2 June 1802, state that both were "of this parish" and both were aged 21 years. ]
-
wow thanks to all for the information now just have to digest it all and see which is mine
-
Not sure if these are the Harper family I am researching ;)
-
Not sure if these are the Harper family I am researching ;)
Hi kiwikate,
Although I have not made a contribution to this topic, I have been following it with great interest. ;D
Your responses to the replies of others have been very brief.
I wonder if you would take the time to say what part of the HARPER information do you think is not related to your Harper family.
Where is the information not in line with what you think is correct?
A full response from you will help others to continue their kind assistance.
Sue
-
I wonder if you would take the time to say what part of the HARPER information do you think is not related to your Harper family.
Where is the information not in line with what you think is correct?
Yes please kiwikate, I'd certainly be most interested to read your comments. :)
~ Lu
-
Part quote from reply #7..........
"Jessie was probably, Johanna:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18860608.2.33
Johanna HARPER, licensee renewal Outram Hotel 1886"
Marriage of Johanna, eldest daughter of Mrs. F. A. Harper [1892]:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18920929.2.8?query=f.%20a.%20harper
Added:
One child found:
1898/18465 Chapman Mabel Jessie Jane Johanna Thomas
Her marriage:
1926/1968 Mabel Jessie Jane Chapman Gavin McGregor
Death notice F. A. Harper [1885]:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW18851128.2.31?query=f.%20a.%20harper
Minniehaha.
-
Further to reply #22........
1986/54285 McGregor Gavin 16 September 1897
Probated will, Gavin McGregor
https://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=2175596
Cremation details: Gavin McGregor [1986]
http://www.purewa.co.nz/view/?id=97699
Cremation details: Mabel Jessie Jane McGregor* [1989]
http://www.purewa.co.nz/view/?id=5980
*Her death registration not (positively) found.
Minniehaha.
-
Mine and Lucy it is wonderful all the info you have been giving me I have been away and just using my phone on limited wifi but I am back and on my mac book now I really didn't expect so much info so quickly and didn't have all my notes with me.Frederick could well have come from Devon and I will follow up that line but I will also get a printout of his death cert as it may say more or not so once again thank you I do appreciate any help
kiwikate
-
Hi kiwikate
Thanks for your response. :)
Yes, I think purchasing the Death printout for Frederick is a good idea.
Am interested to know what information it reveals ... please let us know. ;)
~ Lu
-
Marriage of Johanna, eldest daughter of Mrs. F. A. Harper [1892]:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18920929.2.8?query=f.%20a.%20harper
Minniehaha.
Just for the record ...
Whilst the above marriage notice was headed "CHAPMAN - HARPER", the bride Johanna, (eldest daughter of Mrs F.A. HARPER), actually married Thomas CHAPMAN using the surname "WILSON".
NZ Marriage
CHAPMAN - Thomas -- WILSON - Johanna - Year: 1892
They divorced in 1908 :
Archives New Zealand (Dunedin) file :
CHAPMAN, Thomas v. CHAPMAN, Johanna and LOUDEN, James
The divorce :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NOT19080909.2.3
[Respondent's name incorrectly spelled as "LOWDEN" ... and year of marriage given wrongly as 1902. ]
Johanna's second marriage (where she again uses the surname "WILSON") :
NZ Marriage
LOUDEN - James John -- WILSON - Johanna - Year : 1909
----
Death - NZ BDM
1926 - LOUDEN - Johanna -- aged 60 Years [bc 1866 ]
[Buried at Napier: ]
From (somewhere) earlier in this thread >
... Jessie HARPER (w/o F. A. HARPER) died at the home of her son-in-law J.J. LOUDEN ...
~ Lu
-
thsnks Lucy its been harder as this is my late husbands side and sadly they were a disfunctional family and he knew very little he always wanted our 3 kids to know as he was sure his mums side were in his words a good family so taking a break from my tree and doing this is a joy thanks Kate
-
Good find Lu.....
Was this Johanna's child?
One child found:
1898/18465 Chapman Mabel Jessie Jane Johanna Thomas
Minniehaha.
-
Yes, correct - Johanna's only child (not named, but mentioned in the divorce report).
Johanna and second husband James J. LOUDEN, lived in Dunedin initially, they then moved to Hawkes Bay. He worked as a wool clerk.
Following Johanna's death in Napier (1926) James LOUDEN appears to have moved to Auckland.
His funeral record gives the Auckland address at which he lived - it was the home of his step-daughter, Mabel McGREGOR and her husband Gavin.
~ Lu
-
eow great you are in the ball Kate :)