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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: zalib on Thursday 20 July 17 06:26 BST (UK)
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I am interested in anything to do with John and Sophia BROWN who moved to Trevethin in the 1840s (found in 1851 census, but not 1861). John was from Frome Somerset.
Daughter Mary Ann married James WATKINS (1864). Their daughter Mary Ann married Thomas MILES (1891). Their son was also Thomas MILES who married Lydia NICHOLAS in the PONTYPOOL district in 1911.
I believe some of the MILES family moved to Hertfordshire.
MY aim is to prove that the John BROWN of Frome is the same as the one in my family tree, born 1819 and baptised in Frome St John. There are no baptism records that I can find online so they may have been non-conformist, which would be fairly typical in Wales. Still trying to find a marriage of JB and Sophia.
Confusion arises with Samuel BROWN of Beckington (near Frome) and wife Sophia, whose children have similar names to John and Sophia, but they are not related in my tree. Their children do however create conflict when trying to match subsequent marriages.
My link is through the BROWN family.
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MY aim is to prove that the John BROWN of Frome is the same as the one in my family tree, born 1819 and baptised in Frome St John. There are no baptism records that I can find online so they may have been non-conformist, which would be fairly typical in Wales. Still trying to find a marriage of JB and Sophia.
Have a look at:
http://fromeresearch.org.uk/
Frome St John baptisms from 1558 to 1837.
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Was John Brown actually Samuel John Brown??
The children's birth of the GRO Birth Index lists his children's mothers maiden name as Bond and there is a possible marriage in Frome in 1841 with two persons listed as Samuel Brown and Sophia Bond - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/2D4W-K3C
This couple appear to be on the 1841 census together with Samuel listed as a Plaster and Tiler with ties in with John Brown in 1851
Could this be the family in 1861 in Trevethin??
Samuel J Brown 42 Plasterer b Beckington, Somerset
Sophia Brown 40 b Wincanton, Somerset
Francis Brown 18
James Brown 14
Charles Brown 11
Thomas Brown 8
Elijah Brown 6
Sarah J Brown 3
Sorry - Ignore this as you have already looked into this family - Have you checked the GRO birth index for the mother's maiden name of the Brown children you have in 1851 for John and Sophia?
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Just posting yours in 1851 :)
John Brown 32 bn Frome
Sophia Brown 32 bn Frome
Susana Brown 10 bn Frome
Francis Brown 8 bn Frome
Mary Ann Brown 6 bn Frome
James Brown 4 bn Trevethin
Charls Brown 7 Mth bn Trevethin
Mothers maiden surname Bond according to birth registrations
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Why did you discount Samuel J Brown :-\
Possible Marriage Jun 1841
BOND Sophia
BROWN Samuel
Frome 10 646
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There is also;
BROWN, FRANCIS, Mothers mn TURNER****
GRO Reference: 1843 J Quarter in FROME UNION Volume 10 Page 37
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Are you sure he is not Samuel John Brown?
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Marriage is on FreeREG 10 May 1841 for Samuel Brown and Sophia Bond
Sophias Bapt 10 May 1818 Bratton Seymour, same Fathers name/ocp from 1841 Marriage.
1841 in Frome;
Samuel Brown 20
Sophia Brown 25
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There is also;
BROWN, FRANCIS, Mothers mn TURNER****
GRO Reference: 1843 J Quarter in FROME UNION Volume 10 Page 37
I think he is the son of Jesse Brown & Elizabeth (Turner) - They are in Frome in 1851 :-\
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Thanks rosie, so many Browns about :)
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Thanks rosie, so many Browns about :)
Thank goodness for the new GRO index ;D
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GRO has Brown mmn Bond in Frome RD
BROWN, SUSAN LAURA June qtr 1841
BROWN, FRANCIS HENRY March qtr 1843
BROWN, MARY LAVINIA June qtr 1845
Then Pontypool RD
BROWN, JAMES June qtr 1847
BROWN, CHARLES Sept qtr 1850
BROWN, THOMAS Sept qtr 1853
BROWN, ELIZA June qtr 1856 (Could this be Elijah ??? )
BROWN, SARAH JANE Dec qtr 1858
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Deaths Jun 1869
Brown Sophia age 53
Pontypool 11a 94
1871 census
RG10/5334 f68 p11
John Brown 54 occ Plasterer born Beckington
Thomas Brown 17
Eliza Brown 16 (So it was Eliza not Elijah ??? )
Sarah Brown 14
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Looks as though John has remarried
RG11/5253 f55 p15
John Brown age 63 Tiler & Plasterer bn Somerset
Winifred Brown 53 bn Wolverhampton
Reuben J Evans stepson age 9 bn Trevethin
Sophia Bratt mother in law bn Wolverhampton
Marriages Dec 1877
BROWN John
Evans Winifred
Pontypool 11a 179
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Marriages Dec 1877
BROWN John
Evans Winifred
Pontypool 11a 179
This marriage gives father as James Brown occ Plasterer
Wit Elizabeth Jeremiah & Eliza White
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My strongest inclination is to think that the researcher who linked Mary Ann Brown/Watkins to John Brown of Frome (son of William and Mary), was wrong. I suspect that the 1851 census that names John Brown is actually the record for Samuel John Brown and Sophia Bond. I believe Samuel John Brown may have been the son of another Samuel, so might well have been called John within the family.
Once the sequence of census years is put in a spreadsheet the name matches and ages are too good to be anything else.
I have information that John Brown (Samuel!!) died in 1869. The John who married Winifred seems to be another John Brown who moved to Trevethin froom Somerset.
There's a lot of good stuff in the replies, thanks, I'll go through it all again to verify my thoughts.
I'll also continue my search for John Brown, why couldn't he have been called something unusual!!!
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Ignore my comments about John & Winifred, that needs further research. The handritten notes I was working from can be interpreted to show Sophia died in 1869 (as identified by rosie99, so if Samuel went back to being John this 1877 marriage needs examination. I'll leave that to other researchers who are more closely related.
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I believe Samuel John Brown may have been the son of another Samuel, so might well have been called John within the family.
When Samuel/John Brown remarried Winifred following the death of Sophia he states his father was James Brown
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As rosie said Father James in Marriage to Winfred;
Same as this record has;
Marriage is on FreeREG 10 May 1841 for Samuel Brown and Sophia Bond
Father James, Occp Plasterer
Sophias James, Shoemaker
Re Sophia
1861 born c 1821 Wincanton
1861 born c 1819 Frome
Baptism;
SOPHIA Bond 10 May 1818, Holy Trinity, Bratton Seymour, Somerset
Parents JAMES/JANE
Fathers Occp Shoemaker
1841 they are in Frome;
Samuel Brown 20
Sophia Brown 25
As far as I am concerned there is only one Couple, Samuel John goes by just John on most Census.
Details of his 2 Marriages add up also.
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From the 1871 Wales Census (from memory) John is born Beckington, Somerset..
If you just search Brown born Beckington quite a lot come up on Census.
Also on FreeREG we have;
DANIEL HUBERT Brown Baptised 16 Feb 1834, St George, Beckington, Somerset
Parents JAMES/ANNE
Fathers Occp Plasterer***
Notes; Adult; said to be born Octr 24th 1815****
Definitely a link to Beckington ;D
FRANCES HENRY Brown buried same Church as above, 26 March 1843, Son of SAMUEL/SOPHIA
Fathers Occp Plasterer**
MARRIAGE same Church;
James BROWN to Ann CAFFLE 15 April 1804, both of this Parish
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MARRIAGE same Church;
4 Sept 1845
James BROWN, full age, Widower, Occp Plasterer**, Father JOSEPH Brown, Cloth Dresser
Maria THRASHER, full age, Widow, Father George STTOCKLEY, Leather Dresser
1851 Census
Beckington, Somerset
Maria BROWN, 55, Widow, Laundress, born Wiltshire
Charity Cromwell, 62, Lodger
Cant find Burial for James but GRO Index has a Death Reg;
BROWN, JAMES, age 65****
GRO Reference: 1846 J Quarter in FROME UNION Volume 10 Page 273
So birth c 1780
+
BROWN, ANN, age 60****
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in FROME UNION Volume 10 Page 309
So birth c 1783
So to finish this off;
1841 Census
Goose Street,
Beckington, Somerset
James Brown, 60, Plasterer
Ann Brown, 55
Mary Brown, 15, Dressmaker
Henry Brown, 15, Plasterer
Mary/Henry may be Grandchildren.
So James/Ann did not seem to Baptise their Children.
Daniel Hubert Brown was Baptised by himself as an Adult
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Look for Daniel Brown born c 1812 Brickington, Somerset, in 1851 Census (hes in Devon)
Image is Beckington.
FreeREG has James Brown Bapt 1781 Beckington
Parents possible Marriage 1777 Beckington
Fathers Burial 1815 Beckington age 59
Trish :)
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Last for now.
1841 Census
Nunney, Somerset
James Bond, 60, Shoemaker**
Jane Bond, 60
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Thanks everyone. I think we've reached agreement. Samuel John BROWN crops up in several records as a plasterer & tiler. Sophia had a father who was a Cordwainer, so it all fits.
They're not my Brown's so I'm moving up, but maybe another researcher will beneift. I can provide a lot of information on the Browns in Somerton and Frome.
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Ignore my comments about John & Winifred, that needs further research. The handritten notes I was working from can be interpreted to show Sophia died in 1869 (as identified by rosie99, so if Samuel went back to being John this 1877 marriage needs examination. I'll leave that to other researchers who are more closely related.
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3672004/3672008/44/brown
Death 1869
May 5, at Garndiffaith, aged 53 years, Sophia, wife of Mr John Brown, tiler and plasterer.