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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: my-irish-family on Saturday 22 July 17 19:49 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I am struggling to locate a James Edwin Trainer, born approx 1856 in Nottingham (according to 1891 Leeds census). I cannot find anything on him being born here (or anywhere for that matter).
He married Susannah Martha Wright (Romford, Essex, known as Martha Wright) in Nottinghill, 1884, and his father is entered as also James Trainer. Her father was James Theobald. They had a child, Lilian Maud, shortly after being married, then moved up to Leeds, where the rest of their children were born (Annie Agnes, Edith Mary, James Edwin, William Robert and several others). He is recorded as working in a factory.
James died 23rd December 1900, aged 44 years, while home for Christmas, in Leeds. He was recorded as a Royal Reservist with the 15th West Yorkshire Foot Regiment.
if anyone has any leads on James Edwin Trainer prior to his marriage, it would be greatly appreciated, as I am stumped and have exhausted all my possibilities ???
many thanks!
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More details on marriage:
James Trainer, baker, age 29, bachelor of 8 Heathfield Street. Father: James Trainer,baker, deceased.
Martha Wright,age 22, spinster of 8 Heathfield Street. Father: James Theobold, driver deceased(has line drawn through this)
Witnesses: James Theobald and Susan Bush
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Hello,
there is this but I can't find anything else just yet :-\
Baptism:
James Edwin Traynor 29th January 1854 ; Fylingdales,Yorkshire
Father:James Traynor Mother:Mary Jane
heywood
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Maybe this baptism :-\
Jacobus Trainor
Baptism: 07 Oct 1853
Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England
Father:Jacobi Trainor
Mother:Johanna Trainor
Chesterfield to Nottingham not too far.
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Thank you so much guys for your help :)
I have been trying to find more information on Heath field street but I don't seem to be fairing too well as I thought (since it mentions baker) maybe there is a post office street directory etc that could show his father?
Heywood - I'll have a look on ancestry for that baptism; did you find it elsewhere? It's the closest find so far! :D
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The same information is on Family Search but nothing else.
Was James identified as a Baker on anything other than his marriage certificate?
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What document has the middle name Edwin come from :-\
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Hi,
Only known as a baker on the wedding certificate.
Edwin came from his death records. He had a son called James Edwin also, so Edwin must have importance in there, but is proving rather elusive :-\
I'm also wondering, given the names of his children (Lilian maud, Annie Agnes, William Robert etc) if he was a brother of William Robert Trainer, soldier whom lived in Guernsey with wife Annie. Williams dad was also James. Although I can't find birth or background info on him prior to his marriage (I have his marriage and census info) to see if there is a connection. Hhhmmm ???
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Edwin came from his death records. He had a son called James Edwin also, so Edwin must have importance in there, but is proving rather elusive :-\
But the death registration is only as James Trainer :-\
Deaths Dec 1900
James Trainer age 44
Leeds 9b 335
Is there any other record with Edwin on it. It is possible it is a name added by his family (wife/children) but not the name he was born with. :-\
Added I see he has an E showing as middle initial in 1891 and Martha is Martha S though her marriage only has her as Martha.
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More details on marriage:
James Trainer, baker, age 29, bachelor of 8 Heathfield Street. Father: James Trainer,baker, deceased.
Martha Wright,age 22, spinster of 8 Heathfield Street. Father: James Theobold, driver deceased(has line drawn through this)
Witnesses: James Theobald and Susan Bush
In 1891 at 8 Heathfield Street
John Bush Army Pensioner bn Gesting Thorpe, Suffolk
Susan E Theobold Do 48 bn Romford, essex
Edward Theobold step son 20 bn Kensington
Pellie (?) Theobold stepdaughter 15 bn Kensington
In 1881 Susan & family are at no 4 Heathfield Cottages RG11/31 f35 p9
Susan Theobold age 36 born Essex
James Theobold 14 bn Kensington
Edward Theobold 9 bn Kensington
Thomas Theobold 7 bn Kensington
Nellie Theobold 5 bn Kensington
No 8 is occupied by a William Witney and family.
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The names of Edward & Edwin are often interchanged, I have seen instances where they alternate between census ;D
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Yes, there doesn't appear to be any official records showing Edwin, other than his gravestone and the census which shows "E".
Interesting that Edwin and Edward were used interchangeably.
According to later relatives, there may also have been an Irish connection, so I might have to search amongst the Irish records in case he is part of that connection.
Thanks so much for all your help so far guys ;D
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Have you looked at these records :-\
Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner Soldier Service Records, 1760-1920
James Trainer
BIRTH abt 1855 - St Mary's, Nottingham
MILITARY 1878
James Trainer
Age 23
Birth Place St Mary's, Nottingham
Service Start Year 1878
Regiment 5th
Regimental Number 2108
Attestation Paper
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Great find Rosie.
I don't have a fold 3 subscription but its allowing me to view. Age 23 years & 4 months and a baker by trade. The documents include a copy of his death certificate 21 Dec 1900 in Leeds, aged 44. :)
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Still no mention of a middle name. ;D
I can't view it, probably because I don't have a world sub. :'(
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Good find! :)
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The Service Record ( viewed on FindMyPast where it is indexed under Frainer) gives next of kin as William, brother, of Guernsey Militia and Martha, wife of London. Looks as if William Robert might be a possible link. James spent some time in Ireland and was posted for a time at Mullingar. One of William Robert Trainer's daughters (Maude) was born in Mullingar.
Isobel
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James Edwin Trainer confirmed burial Burmantofts Cemetery (Beckett Street Cemetery)
23rd December 1900 aged 44yrs.
Brian
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Just pipped me to it isobel - my laptop is on it's last legs so it was taking an age to scroll through all the pages.
William R Trainer of the Guernsey Militia is in St Peter Port, Guernsey in 1891 - aged 39 & born Yorkshire
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I was just going to post re William's mention.
I have these births which I have been wondering about - fits with the baptism I posted.
Scarborough
March 1854 9d pg 246
James Traynor
June 1855 9d pg 258
William Traynor
On GRO James has mother - Riley and William - O'Reilly
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In addition to the above, there is this birth
Nottingham September 1857 7b 239
Mary Jane Traynor
I wondered if she was connected because of Nottingham and the name - James' mother is Mary Jane.
Although that entry is in Free BMD, I can't see her in GRO index for mmn.
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William's military record is online. Also states born Nottingham c 1852.
Not sure it adds anything, but this is his marriage:
13 May 1878 Christ Church, Fulwood, Lancashire, England
William Robert Trainer - 23, Corporal 18th Regiment, Bachelor, Fulwood
Annie Gilcriss - 20, Spinster, Fulwood
Groom's Father: James Trainer, Labourer
Bride's Father: Edward Gilcriss, Farmer
Witness: J. Hickey; J. J. Shaw
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I was studying this yesterday - no James or William and quite complicated.
1871 2085/36/64 Torquay
Mary Jane Traynor 14 yrs b Nottingham with parents James and Caroline.
Very dodgy transcription of names for Caroline and siblings.
The younger children have mmn Preston.
Some names are similar to those of William's children.
James is something to do with birds I think.
In 1861 -3 children are in Staffordshire as nurse children - Mary Ann b Lichfield, Francis b Lichfield and a John, I think, and if I recall the parents are elsewhere.
Looking at newspaper snippets James snr may have been in bother at times and he seems to deal in clothes and birds as I said :-\
I am not sure if this is the family at all. James snr usually shows born Exeter.
I just wonder....
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William Robert appears to have joined up at Curragh in Ireland in 1870. I wonder if the father was in the army and they travelled about, perhaps not in uk census as children. There is a tree on Ancestry which gives the name Francis James for William's father ( no further details) and no mother details. William Robert died in Western Australia in 1942. Tree says he was born in Scarborough, Yorkshire.
Isobel
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That seems a much better explanation than mine Isobel.
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In addition to the above, there is this birth
Nottingham September 1857 7b 239
Mary Jane Traynor
I wondered if she was connected because of Nottingham and the name - James' mother is Mary Jane.
Although that entry is in Free BMD, I can't see her in GRO index for mmn.
She's listed as Fraynor ::) MMN Preston
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Thanks for that Jomot.
Preston fits with the other family I was looking at - James and Caroline and of course she is with them.
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William Robert appears to have joined up at Curragh in Ireland in 1870. I wonder if the father was in the army and they travelled about, perhaps not in uk census as children. There is a tree on Ancestry which gives the name Francis James for William's father ( no further details) and no mother details. William Robert died in Western Australia in 1942. Tree says he was born in Scarborough, Yorkshire.
Isobel
Looking at William's record, I read it that he joined and attested at Kingston upon Hull in August 1870 (page 3) then joined at Curragh Camp in September 1870.(page 1). Could that be right?
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Looking at William's record, I read it that he joined and attested at Kingston upon Hull in August 1870 (page 3) then joined at Curragh Camp in September 1870.(page 1). Could that be right?
That's how I read it too. James attested at Nottingham and joined at Beverley, so presumably once they had passed the medical etc they went to wherever their unit was.
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As usual I had to finish posting for the day just when I found something useful and did not want to stop ;D Well done everyone with the progress made.
It would appear that OP is already looking at William Robert :-\
I'm also wondering, given the names of his children (Lilian maud, Annie Agnes, William Robert etc) if he was a brother of William Robert Trainer, soldier whom lived in Guernsey with wife Annie. Williams dad was also James. Although I can't find birth or background info on him prior to his marriage (I have his marriage and census info) to see if there is a connection. Hhhmmm ???
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Looking at William's record, I read it that he joined and attested at Kingston upon Hull in August 1870 (page 3) then joined at Curragh Camp in September 1870.(page 1). Could that be right?
That's how I read it too. James attested at Nottingham and joined at Beverley, so presumably once they had passed the medical etc they went to wherever their unit was.
You are both right. I read the bit at the top of the document and didn't register the other information.
Isobel
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It could still be that he was in an army family though. There seems to be no sign of the brothers in 1861.
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Thank you all you very wonderful people!!!! This is absolutely amazing, what a fantastic job you have all done! ;D ;D
This is absolutely James Trainer, and his brother is indeed William Robert (Guernsey) ;D
I am so delighted and wholeheartedly appreciate all the amazing effort that went into this by each and every one of you, thank you!
;D