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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Katsy8 on Saturday 22 July 17 20:43 BST (UK)

Title: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: Katsy8 on Saturday 22 July 17 20:43 BST (UK)
I'm searching records on Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith parents to Mary Kearns b: 1824 Dundee,Angus Scotland .Mary married James Smith in Lancashire England in 1845 & arrived in Brisbane Australia in 1865 on Queen of the South.
I have found a baptism record for Mary's sister Margaret at St. Andrews Dundee Angus in 1834.
Unfortunately I have had no luck finding any further information on the parents of Mary.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 22 July 17 21:21 BST (UK)
Hi there

When you are doing these searches, a couple of things to consider.

The family look to be Roman Catholic going by sister Margaret's entry that you have https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY91-9M4

RC records can be harder to find pre the start of official registration in Scotland from 1855. Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk do have some RC parish records. From the general index there, can't see Mary's entry but there are some siblings (twins) showing:

John and Ann CAIRNS -  parents PATRICK CAIRNS/MARGARET GRIFFITH
b. 28/4/1840 and bpt. 29/4/1840 at Dundee, St Andrew's

The surname Kearns will have lots of spelling variants, such as Cairns above.

Patrick and Peter are common variants so worth checking for both names www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=patrick

Have you searched for the family in the early censuses?

Monica
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: Katsy8 on Saturday 22 July 17 21:45 BST (UK)
Many thanks Monica
I did find Margaret's record in scotlands people but no hit for Mary. I missed the twins so will have a look,many thanks for that.
 I haven't found anything in the census records or in the English census for
Mary . Thankyou for the tips on the name variants I would never have thought Peter could be Patrick.

Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: bevj on Saturday 22 July 17 22:16 BST (UK)
It's an obvious remark, but if there are baptisms for 1824, 1834 and 1840, there are probably a lot more siblings around somewhere!

Bev
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 23 July 17 01:51 BST (UK)
Hi K8,

Have you found the family in either Scotland or England on 1841/1851 census?

Although the 1841 doesn't specify birth places it will have whether or not born in county, signified by 'Y' or 'N' (Yes or No).

Griffith seems much a Welsh name (I may of course be wrong here)! ?

Do you have an occupation for Patrick/Peter from Mary's marriage, siblings baptisms or any other docs?

Annie

Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: Katsy8 on Sunday 23 July 17 02:37 BST (UK)
Hi Annie
I have only managed to find an 1861 English census for Anne who is visiting her sister Mary Smith,husband James & children in Poplar Middlesex .
I have baptisms for Anne,John (28th April 1840 St Andrews Dundee) &  Margaret (9 th March 1834
St Andrews Dundee)
Cheers
Kat

Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: Katsy8 on Sunday 23 July 17 04:31 BST (UK)
Patrick's occupation on Mary's death cert is a Clerk.
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: bevj on Sunday 23 July 17 20:33 BST (UK)
I think this census entry for 1851 is correct though the father's occupation is wrong:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGCZ-GF7

Sutton, East Riding of Yorkshire

Patrick Kerwins    Head    M    54    Ireland
Margaret Kerwins    Wife    F    52    Ireland
Ann Kerwins    Daughter    F    11    Scotland
John Kerwins    Daughter    M    13    Scotland   <---- needs a look at the original
Margret Kerwins    Daughter    F    18    Scotland
Mary Smith    Daughter    F    28    Ireland

Page Number    29
Registration Number    HO107
Piece/Folio    2360 / 100

Bev

Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 23 July 17 20:54 BST (UK)
That is a great find, Bev. Looks really promising  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 23 July 17 21:15 BST (UK)
How about this entry for 1841:

Patrick Kerins 45 Canvas H L W (hand loom weaver) b. Ireland
Margaret Kerins 40 b. Ireland
Mary Kerins 20 mill worker b. Ireland
Patrick Kerins 11 b. Ireland
Margaret Kerins 7
John Kerins 1
Agnes Kerins 1

Address: Milln East Wynd, Dundee

Monica

PS: Agnes and Ann (and Nancy) is a common name variant. See www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=agnes
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: Katsy8 on Sunday 23 July 17 23:20 BST (UK)
Thanks Bev John & Anne are both listed 1840 birth as same date but definitely food for thought.
Will download original from scotlands people  ;)
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: Katsy8 on Sunday 23 July 17 23:22 BST (UK)
Thanks Monica will check originals as Anne could be Agnes Anne
Many thanks
Kat
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: Katsy8 on Sunday 23 July 17 23:35 BST (UK)
Monica's tip shows Both John & Ann were baptised on the 28 th April 1840 but no further clues there in the original, could they be of different birth years?
Will check the 1841 census as that looks promising too.
Many thanks again.
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 24 July 17 15:38 BST (UK)


RC records can be harder to find pre the start of official registration in Scotland from 1855. Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk do have some RC parish records. From the general index there, can't see Mary's entry but there are some siblings (twins) showing:

John and Ann CAIRNS -  parents PATRICK CAIRNS/MARGARET GRIFFITH
b. 28/4/1840 and bpt. 29/4/1840 at Dundee, St Andrew's


John and Ann showing as born on 28 April 1840 and baptised the following day.

Monica
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: bevj on Monday 24 July 17 19:50 BST (UK)
Thanks Bev John & Anne are both listed 1840 birth as same date but definitely food for thought.
Will download original from scotlands people  ;)

Since John is listed as a daughter, it could be just a bad transcription.  I think it is definitely the right family.

Bev
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: Katsy8 on Tuesday 01 August 17 14:14 BST (UK)
Bev your tip on the 1850 census proved most fruitful. The surname came up with the surname Sterwin,but all the pieces seemed to fit. From that I found the death of Patrick in 1855 as Kirnes ,in Scolates Hull. And it also led to a sister Elizabeth Danby nee Smith & daughter,sister to James Smith who was also on the census married to Mary.It also provided a birth for Mary in Sligo so now I know why I couldn't find her on the Scottish registers.
Am most apprecive to you & Monica.Im now trying to follow up Monica's 1840 Irish census.
Many thanks to you both.
Cheers
Kat
Title: Re: Searching records for Patrick Kearns & Margaret Griffith Dundee Angus Scotland
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 01 August 17 19:05 BST (UK)
Sounds like you are making great headway, Kat  :)

Monica