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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: ChrisJohnCoops on Sunday 23 July 17 21:08 BST (UK)
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Hi RootsChat,
My grandfather Charles Cooper RE 5th Labour Battalion, C Coy. for which I am fortunate to have found and downloaded it's War Diary, was hospitalised from injury received at Zenegham ammunition dump while on active service working on railway maintenance and construction. He was hospitalised from the 10th March 1917 to the 19th May 1917 when he rejoined his Company at Fontinettes. This information is on his Soldiers Service Record. I am remembering him on the web Lives of the first world war which will be closed in 2018 to new entries. Does anyone know where the field hospital was located and if there was any explosive? activity that day of his injury. The Battalions four Companies were all under almost constant daily shelling and bombing while working on railways and roads. Much obliged. Chis Cooper
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The ammo dump was actually situated on the canal at Saint-Pierre-Brouck (thanks GWF and Imperial War Museum) about 20km south east of Calais. The difficulty with the search for a hospital is that there were, understandably, a large number of them on or round the coast for safety and for easy evacuation to UK. A few minutes with this http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/british-base-hospitals-in-france/ and a map will show how many are near that location. If the injury was at the ammunition dump then bombardment from the air or an ammunition accident would seem to be the most likely causes.
maxD
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Hi maxD. Thank you for responding. Yes the camp dump was where you say, his C Coy. was working on railway maintenance and construction for the dump so could have been on the line, in the camp or at the dump where the Battalion War Diary states they were based. They were earlier based at St Pierre Brouck then on the Somme then Audruick dump before this one at ZENEGHAM. The field or movable base hospitals were many I now realise thanks to you. Do you know if copies of original Army forms B213 are documented anywhere? One was raised for him on his Casualty Service record.
Chris
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Form 213 was the field return to GHQ from which occurrences were copies into a man's records. while I can't be totally certain, my feeling is that they didn't survive the war, there would have been untold thousands of them. Forgive the question but is there perhaps a hieroglyphic for the hospital on his record somewhere related to the definite dates for his hospitalisation?
maxD
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I have studied it but can only make out the basic information needed to be written. Unless no. 13 next to the admission date in the right hand column is a reference which is Boulogne General which was used until Feb 1919 on the Longlong trail web. Hopefully I managed to attach a copy.
Regards
Chris
maxD, Looking at the form now thanks to you, I think he was injured on the 7th March and sent to a casualty clearing hospital then admitted to Boulogne General on the 31st March. Then on the 9th May he was transferred to, I think it reads no. 38 which was Calais, before rejoining his unit on the 17th May which was at Fontinettes, a railway camp in Calais. Do you think looking at the form I have now interpreted it correctly?
Much regards
Chris
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Easy to be persuaded but it could possibly be. The column would record the details from the 213 sent in by the originating unit and in the case of admittance and discharge that would be the hospital. There is also a "No 1(3?)" after the second date.
The register for 13 Gen does not appear on the list of extant records http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/hospitaladmissions.html so proving it one way or another will, I think, be mission impossible. As a solicitor might say - you might like to take a view!
maxD
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maxD, no 13 after the date 31-3-17 I checked against the list on the longlong trail link that you gave me which gives it as Boulogne from October 1914 to February 1919 so I think that seems correct. The second entry on rejoining is not clear but looks like 38 magnifying it as it has deteriorated which is Calais. The only doubt is that it is shown on the longlong as not starting until July 1917.
Am I wrong to use this list from the longlong trail.
Chris
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Absolutely not wrong to use the longlongtrail, the first go-to site for the Great War!
Are there any entries on other forms relating to the same set of dates? A man in hospital would be transferred to something called the Xii list which would be recorded on a form with three areas, two for postings and one for promotions, each with three columns. The period should also appear on an Army Form B103. Could you check those if they are there?
maxD
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No other references on his Service records. On the Statement to Disability page he signed to state no claim to disability and the details of hospitalisation boxes are blank. He carried a problem with his injured foot for life but must have disregarded it on demobilisation. Also on his discharge page the if wounded section is left blank. So he probably wanted to just sign off and go home with just a souvenir postcard he bought and medals he gave to his children.
Thanks a million for your help, I am going to put another post on to see if anyone has any private records of his time immediately following the dispersal of the Battalion in August 1917 and the soldiers reenlistment into the newly formed 704th Labour Corps while still in France for which the War Office declared that no War Diaries would be kept.
Regards
ChrisJohnCoops.
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Just visited my local library and saw by chance a book which may be of interest. Trains to the Trenches by Andrew Roden. For what its worth.
maxD
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I think it reads no. 38 which was Calais
FWIW it looks like no. 23 = Etaples.
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Chris
Pedantically, it is 704 Company Labour Corps. They were not entirely un-diaried (is that a word?). The Labour Battalions were organised into Labour Groups in mid 17 and so far I have found them in 70 Group in Sep 18 but not, so far, where they were before that date (work in progress). The Groups did have diaries at Group HQ level so the possibility exists of tracking your man's general whereabouts.
maxD
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jim1. My first thought was 23, the first digit is not a 1 and the second either 3, 8 or 9. The doubt I had with Etaples was the dates. June 1915 to Nov 1916 then taken over by Canadian General. Would they have admitted British Soldiers? My Grandfather was hospitalised from 7/3/17 to 17/5/17.
maxD. I will try and get a copy of Trains to the Trenches. I obtained for £10 a copy of No Labour, No Battle a very sympathetic view of the lot of the various Labour Companies. It hints of diaries kept higher up the chain for the Labour Corps.
You are correct to pull me up for the 704 Company, Labour Corps. I slip up now and then. I do wonder why on his service record it is written as 704 4 Coy.
I have been searching for ages for information on his Labour Corps. that he served in from 1st Sept 1917 to Feb 1919. Are any of the 70 group's records available to view?
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maxD
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jim1
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Chris
These are the Labour Group diaries http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=labour%20group&_nq1=Medal&_cr=WO&_dss=range&_ro=any&_p=1900&_st=adv You'll note none go beyond 1917. From what I've gleaned so far it is then the Corps HQ diaries that refer to them but in what detail I have no idea.
Each of them is available to download for £3.50 but until we track down which groups 704 Coy was in at various times (ongoing!) it will be a waste of money.
I was going to recommend the John Starling book anyway, I don't have it but you may find helpful information there?
Remember the records were written by clerks who in many cases had been hurriedly trained as such and mistakes occur often! Even the National Archives have in the case of an officer's record headed it 704 Labour Corps showing a disregard for the hierarchy of the army which had only one Labour Corps.
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23 FH was as you say taken over by the Canadians but would have treated anyone who needed it.
No. 23 FH may have set up again in Etaples as it was there for the duration.
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maxD. Thank you. I already have them and have written a small book correlating his service record and the war diary showing each page and typing the full text. It contains a short intro with pictures of his life before conscription and maps plus images from WW1 areas he was working in from day to day. Found a great one on Pinterest of the Nissen hut camp his company built in Nov 1916 at Fricourt Wood and was billeted in from Dec 2 to Jan 10 1917. His "C" Company was assigned to the fourth Army under RCE4 from 29 Sept 1916 on the Mealte to Bazentin Rail network. Always under shell fire during his time there during and after the battle of the Somme.
Chris
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jim1, Yes I agree. His company was assigned to the fourth Army under the Royal Canadian Engineers 4th on the Somme from 29 Sept 1916 to 10 Jan 1917, so they might have looked kindly on him.
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His disability statement and his discharge papers are clear and correct with 704 Company Labour Corps. Why the errant 4 on the piece you posted? who knows.
I have the feeling that you are fairly squared away with your man's service up to the Labour Corps time - is that correct?
maxD
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maxD. Correct. I needed to find out his hospitalisation details which I am now satisfied with to add to his timeline on the Lives of the First World War website being built by people remembering an individual. It will be closed May 2018 then correlated and published on line. Most important to have as many remembered as possible. Anyone can add facts, stories etc to an individual by registering for free and raising a name and regiment number in order to complete one persons timeline from birth to death. You can add, challenge facts etc on any that are currently being built like my grandfathers by raising their name and regiment and clicking remembering them.
Meanwhile I shall post for any private records that some families might have for the 704 Coy. Labour Corps.
Thanks maxD for your help.