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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northamptonshire => Topic started by: PrawnCocktail on Tuesday 25 July 17 22:25 BST (UK)
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This went on the NRO's Facebook page yesterday:
Important Information: From 21 August 2017, opening times for free access to the Archives Service will be as follows:
• Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday: 9am to 1pm
• First Saturday of the month only, April - October: 9am to 4pm
The times during which researchers can visit the Archives Service are being increased. Appointments can now be booked, in advance and for a fee, to view original documents during the following times. The current fee is £31.50 per hour.
• Monday & Friday: 10am - 1pm and 2pm - 4pm
• Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday: 2pm - 4pm
1-1 personal consultations can also be booked in advance for an hourly fee during the following times:
• Monday to Friday: 9am - 4pm
This leaves only three mornings a week when the records are freely available, as the fee is far too large for most of us to pay. I'm aware the number of researchers has dropped off sharply since the PR's went on Ancestry, but three mornings a week seems very poor!
>:( >:(
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Well I don't like the new hours, they are not very helpful for people that have to come a long way to visit the archives.
Instead of
free access to the Archives Service will be as follows:
• Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday: 9am to 1pm
I would prefer
free access to the Archives Service will be as follows:
• Tuesday, & Wednesday : 9am to 1pm and 2pm to 4pm
I wonder who they consulted before coming up with the hours
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Oh dear, it used to be a joy to go and work there for a couple of days each week >:(
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I had to read that several times as I was certain it couldn't be right..... £31.50 an hour :o :o :o
Who on earth has that kind of money?
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I had to read that several times as I was certain it couldn't be right..... £31.50 an hour
It makes the Ancestry sub look like peanuts.
It'll drive folks online when there's so much great stuff at NRO that's not censuses and parish registers.
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Things appear to have moved on a bit.
The Record Office have put out a statement half an hour ago saying,
"A further statement about the changes to opening hours will be made tomorrow."
There's a blizard of comments on Twitter and Facebook. All negative.
And someone has started a petition
https://www.change.org/p/northamptonshire-county-council-northamptonshire-county-council-don-t-charge-for-visiting-archives (https://www.change.org/p/northamptonshire-county-council-northamptonshire-county-council-don-t-charge-for-visiting-archives)
The petition has gone to 100 supporters in 2 hours, and now climbing rapidly.
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A worthy cause, but a shame that Change.org appear to want to charge for signing the petition.
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A worthy cause, but a shame that Change.org appear to want to charge for signing the petition.
Charge? There was no mention of a charge when I signed?
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A try on from the beginning.They want to restrict access to the legal minimum. The only people who can afford those fees are the researchers who will add it to the fee charged, which means those who can afford to hire them will pay. This is to fund the next round of expenditure cuts required by government.
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Not even sure this meets the legal minimum. They're supposed to "to take account of the needs of their users" - and this surely doesn't.
>:(
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OK - donation :-[ But I did sign. We can't lose access to Archives.
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Bumblebee - thank you. (Not that it's my petition - it isn't)
I have never been asked for a penny by Change.org, but maybe that's because I joined it years ago on Facebook.
This isn't of course about just the NRO, if they get away with this, there will be other Record Offices that will follow them!
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This isn't of course about just the NRO, if they get away with this, there will be other Record Offices that will follow them!
You're not wrong there! Petition signed.
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Lincolnshire came up with a different solution, everything on a site: Lincs to the past, which has its own problems, though could be a brilliant resource. I am surprised that Lincolnshire archive has not made major cuts to their opening hours. I wonder what the Association of County Councils attitude is to this situation?
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The further statement is now available:
"Thank you to everyone for taking the time to share your comments with us. We hope the statement below will explain the reasons for the changes.
STATEMENT ON ARCHIVES AND HERITAGE SERVICE OPENING HOURS
The County Council is responsible for making sure that limited and reducing local government resources are used as effectively as possible. In the current financial climate, it has no option but to look at how best to remodel service delivery with reduced budgets.
The Archives Service changes to opening hours that will be implemented from 21 August show a commitment to maintaining free public access to archives. The service will continue to be free for on-site visitors from 9am to 1pm Tuesday to Thursday and one Saturday morning each month.
Customers have said that they most need and want online access to resources; numbers visiting the service in person have fallen dramatically in the past two years. This has been taken into account in this revision to opening hours and the intention is that outside the core opening hours, the service’s limited staff resources will be redirected to the work of digitisation and developing on-line access to archives.
In order to mitigate the impact on research of the changes, the service has in fact extended the times during which people can choose to visit. These additional hours are chargeable but are offered in order to support researchers and not otherwise.
This is a bold step in difficult times and we seek your support as we work to ensure that researchers can enjoy and learn from our rich collections now and into the future."
And
"£31.50 per hour is our standard rate for dedicated staff time"
However, most of us don't need "dedicated staff time". We just need access, and records produced. And at least one full day per week, to allow for extensive research.
Petition now up to 363 signatures.
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Has anyone noticed that the original statement on Monday said one Saturday per month between April and October 9am-4pm but now they are saying it is only the morning on one Saturday? :o
I wouldn't mind if they had done what they originally said with Ancestry and digitised the original pre1813 registers instead of the microfiche. Some not surprisingly are not very readable form the fiche. And originally they announced they agreement included Wills too but that has been axed as they recently responded on a Facebook post that they were looking into this. What a mess. :-X
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£31.50 per hour no doubt leaves an ample margin of profit for Northamptonshire CC, as few if any of their staff apart from the Chief Executive would be on that type of salary, despite silly rumours to the contrary. As I said in my first post, this is purely and they now admit to mitigate the effects of central government cuts.
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Smudwisk mentioned wills. They were microfilmed by the LDS back in 1958 and have been available to order and view in Family History Centres. With their new digitization programme many are already available to view as images online at FH Centres.
Here is the link to the catalogue entry for original wills pre 1858, those with the camera icon are already digitized.
Northampton Court
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/350023?availability=Family%20History%20Library
Peterborough Court
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/350346?availability=Family%20History%20Library
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Marilyn, I'm so glad you posted the link to the Peterborough Consistory Court Wills. I'd not realised that I hadn't checked which court my list of wants from NRO were from and assumed they were all from the same. When I searched myself I only picked up the Northampton Court listings and not those for Peterborough too. So now my long list split into those that the LDS have already digitised and those that haven't yet been done has to be double checked to ensure I look at the correct collection. :-X On the plus side, it may reduce the number I would need to still consult at Northampton.
Its just a shame that NRO didn't get Ancestry to digitise them when they did the PRs in spite of the fact they said at the time they would do.
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I've been following this with interest because my paternal ancestors are from the County but I live too far way to make use in person of the NRO. I am nevertheless interested in their efforts to digitise records. Is this all being done via Ancestry or do they have their own resources and online access?
Tony
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At the moment all there is, is the PRs on Ancestry and an online catalogue which is incomplete, and is very slow.
We thought the Wills were to be done by Ancestry, but there's no sign of them. There's an index to them on FindMyPast
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Thank you. Do you know whether Ancestry adds more Northants PRs from time to time or plans to, or have they listed everything that is available? As you know FindMyPast recently uploaded Leicestershire PRs, another county I have serious interest in, and my impression, right or wrong, is that there are more of them than there are of the Northants records on Ancestry. That may be because there are more records in Leicestershire or because there are still more to come on Ancestry.
My sub to Ancestry just expired but having looked through the Northants records ad nauseam I think that I have exhausted everything that is of interest to me. So the reason for paying again is very limited.
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Do you know whether Ancestry adds more Northants PRs from time to time or plans to, or have they listed everything that is available?
Sorry, Tony, no idea. But I rather think that everything that is going on Ancestry, is already on there. Unless anyone knows differently?
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There are, as often happens with Ancestry (and for that matter FindMyPast), registers that haven't been digitised. Roade is one example, there is a great chunk missing but when I mentioned this to the Archives last year I got a somewhat sarcastic reply from the Project Manager about how disappointing that must be. I got the impression the update that was done last year in about May was probably the last to be uploaded to Ancestry but could be wrong. It wouldn't surprise me if there were other gaps unfortunately. ::)
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Over 3000 people have signed a petition against the changes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-northamptonshire-40612113?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=598313cee4b045e14faf7770%26Opening%20hours%20changes%20at%20Northamptonshire%20records%20centre%26&ns_fee=0#post_598313cee4b045e14faf7770
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3331 people at the present moment!
https://www.change.org/p/northamptonshire-county-council-northamptonshire-county-council-don-t-charge-for-visiting-archives/ (https://www.change.org/p/northamptonshire-county-council-northamptonshire-county-council-don-t-charge-for-visiting-archives/)
The comments are worth reading
https://www.change.org/p/northamptonshire-county-council-northamptonshire-county-council-don-t-charge-for-visiting-archives/w?source_location=petition_show (https://www.change.org/p/northamptonshire-county-council-northamptonshire-county-council-don-t-charge-for-visiting-archives/w?source_location=petition_show)
And professional bodies are all standing up to say this is wrong. But the County Council are maintaining total silence. ::) ::)
There is also now a Facebook group called "Save Northamptonshire County Record Office" on Facebook
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Some of you may have seen this... But... I urge you all to sign the petition (38 degrees) .. They are proposing in a couple of weeks to start charging for access to the records... £31.50. Per hour or part thereof will exclude many many people from accessing archives held there. It sets a dangerous precedent, and I am quite heavily involved in the save Northamptonshire County Record Office (there is a page on fb to join). This will price just about everyone out of family history and if you have to travel there, you are looking at around £1000.00 per week...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154664942926860&id=291948396859
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Also being discussed here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=775744.msg6293079#msg6293079
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https://www.change.org/p/northamptonshire-county-council-northamptonshire-county-council-don-t-charge-for-visiting-archives?recruiter=31788780&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=share_petition
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/513111562360866/
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Cone join our fb page... https://www.facebook.com/groups/513111562360866/
The digitising of the records are not going to happen... The volunteers are being let go... The records are in an awful state as they are not being refilled, just left on trollys... The catalogue is nowhere near complete... Private records are being removed wholesale... And still the council r efuse to engage, answer questions or even appear on local radio as I did this am on the matter... Many respected organisations have also been involved, all with negative comments... The email sent by the head of the service beggar's belief... It's all on the FB group.
This is setting a very dangerous and parsimonious precedent... Other comparable CROs such as Surrey, Oxfordshire, and especially Kent have a VERY different outlook...
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Also being discussed here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=775744.msg6293079#msg6293079
I feel this needs a much wider audience than just the Northamptonshire pages... It's a national and international outrage....
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I drew it to the attention of Peter who runs Lost Cousins last weekend as I thought if he drew it to the attention of all the people who receive his newsletter it would increase publicity somewhat for normal researchers and hopefully push up numbers on the petition. Sadly the response I got was that it was going to affect professional researchers and transcribers more than "most" LC members who are less likely to use Records Offices these days. :-\ Suffice to say I've not seen him publicise it as yet which is a shame.
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That is a shame... Everyone one else from the National Archives to Private Eye are in on this, with WDYTYA magazine publishing an article already...
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Its a few years ago since i contacted the office asking about Prison records, but they wanted to charge £26 per hour for the search with no guarantee they had the record I wanted.
luckily just this week ive found his army service record & it explains what he did & the sentence he received.
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The County Council have (partially) given in -
STATEMENT: NORTHAMPTONSHIRE ARCHIVES & HERITAGE SERVICE
Northamptonshire County Council has reviewed its decision to change opening hours at its archives and heritage service after listening to the views of its regular users and supporters.
The archives service will now be open for free access on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, 9am to 1pm and 2pm to 5pm and the first Saturday in each month, 9am to 1pm.
In light of financial pressures and reducing visitor numbers, there will be a review of the service ahead of the next financial year as part of the budget setting process and this will include a full consultation around any proposed changes.
In 2016, the service was visited by a total of 3,500 researchers, a drop of 50 per cent compared with 2006.
County council cabinet member for public protection, strategic infrastructure and economic growth Cllr André Gonzalez de Savage said: “Having listened to the views of our service users here in Northamptonshire and across the UK, a decision has been made to reconsider the proposed changes to opening hours.
“However, given our significant financial challenges, changes to customer behaviour and a growth in online enquiries, we need to consider how best to use our limited resources and will be reviewing the service in the coming months as part of the annual budget process.
“As part of this there will be a full public consultation in which service users will be able to provide their feedback ahead of any changes being implemented.”
This, however, still leaves the service under threat. And leaves us all crammed into the tiny lunch area for an hour (about 8 chairs, a coffee machine and a water cooler). For those who haven't actually visited this CRO, it is inaccessible by public transport, and has no shops or cafes within walking distance.
The high charges for accessing the search room on Monday and Friday are also still in place.
Please, if you haven't signed the petition, do so - and can we make as much use of the facility as possible. Genealogy is not just about parish registers and censuses - there will often be other documents that will be useful as well - workhouse records, wills, school log books, estate records ... - which will never make it onto Anc*** or FindMyPast. If we lose access to a whole county's past, we will all be the poorer.
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Northamptonshire County Council have just issued a press release withdrawing the plan (at least for now).
Well done to all those who made their views known.
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http://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/news/protest-forces-u-turn-by-northamptonshire-county-council-over-free-access-to-archives-1-8088718
U turn as above,so where will they try and claw money back from next?
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U turn of sorts I gather only for the time being, they are apparently going to consult which they really should have done previously. Its still 3 hours per week less than currently and only half a Saturday once a month instead of the existing 9-4pm. There is still the possibility that after a consultation they will try and reduce the hours the same unfortunately. :-\
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What I was wondering and no one seems to have brought it up that I am aware of is what do the statutory legislation in respect of archives say about free access, given that some institutions are legally required to deposit certain documents there so that we can all see them eg parish registers. Its a bit thick for us to pay for archives through our council tax and then be told we cannot visit them unless we pay again ::)
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I think the issue of statutory legislation has been brought up in the closed Facebook group, at least in relations to "public records" deposited there, but can't remember what the viewpoint was. I believe its definitely been looked at by campaigners against the changes.
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I signed the petition regarding the charging at NRO - and I received a communication this morning saying that there has been a rethink and NCC have considered all that has been said by those who use the archives, read all the comments and decided that they WILL NOT be charging and research will be FREE as it has always has been.
This is exactly what was said:-
'Northants County Council has reviewed its decision to change opening hours at its archives and heritage services after listening to the views of its regular users and supporters.
The archives service will now be open for free access Tues, Wed, Thurs 9am - 1pm and 2pm - 5pm and the first Saturday in each month, 9am - 1pm.
In light of financial pressures and reducing visitor numbers, there will be a review of the service ahead of the next financial year as part of the budget setting process and this will include a full consultation around any proposed changes.
In 2016, the service was visited by a total of 3,500 researchers, a drop of 50% compared with 2006.
County council cabinet member for public protection, strategic infrastructure and economic growth Cllr Andre Gonzalez de Savage said: "Having listened to the views of our service users here in Northamptonshire and across the UK, a decision has been made to reconsider the proposed changes to opening hours.
"However, given our significant financial challenges, changes to customer behaviour and a growth in online enquiries, we need to consider how best to use our limited resources and will be reviewing the service in the coming months as part of the annual budget process.
"As part of this service users will be able to provide their feedback ahead of any changes being implemented"
So although they appear to have kept the status quo, it doesn't mean that they won't in future decide to charge. At least people using the services will get some chance to comment and contribute. Whether they will be able to continue to provide a free service is any bodies guess!
Caroline
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The important thing is to use the archives .....
I spent 2 hours in a county archive yesterday, with about 4 staff working (that I saw) and I was the only researcher there during that time.
If archives don't get used, any future arguments against reduced opening hours will get much weaker.
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My mother paid a quick visit to NRO on a Wednesday afternoon a few weeks back to photograph a bastardy bond as my parents were in the area (if I'd known it would have been more than one document but wasn't told in advance they were possibly going :-X). She said there were only about 3 other people in there at the time doing research.
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For those who haven't actually visited this CRO, it is inaccessible by public transport, and has no shops or cafes within walking distance.
On the contrary, the two bus stops at the top of London Road, a 5min walk from NRO, are served by several buses an hour from/to the town centre, as well as direct buses once an hour from/to Corby, Kettering, Wellingborough and Milton Keynes.
For those who wish to stretch their legs at lunchtime, once safely across the main road at the new lights, the footpath/cycle track to the west takes you to Tesco, and to the east to Wyevale Garden Centre and Waitrose ... all serve refreshments and all are no more than a 15min walk (or a few minutes drive).
Whilst none of us are happy with the changes, let's not paint the picture of NRO any darker than it is already or they'll never get the numbers back up. :)
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It would be interesting to know ...
Are the reduced numbers of visitors because folk no longer need to visit to view the parish registers? Most are available on ancestry, but not all.
Is the production of original of records down significantly?
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You would think in some ways that easier access to the parish registers might encourage more to use the NRO to access other documents that aren't already digitised and expand on their research. I know some people wouldn't but research is so much more than just the PRs.
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I would love to live near ANY county record office and be able to visit.
It must be more than 10 years since I was in Northampton, but I went every day while I had the chance. They were open every day then.
But I can access all kinds of Northants records through familysearch when I am at the FHC. They were microfilmed eons ago.
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For those who haven't actually visited this CRO, it is inaccessible by public transport, and has no shops or cafes within walking distance.
On the contrary, the two bus stops at the top of London Road, a 5min walk from NRO, are served by several buses an hour from/to the town centre, as well as direct buses once an hour from/to Corby, Kettering, Wellingborough and Milton Keynes.
For those who wish to stretch their legs at lunchtime, once safely across the main road at the new lights, the footpath/cycle track to the west takes you to Tesco, and to the east to Wyevale Garden Centre and Waitrose ... all serve refreshments and all are no more than a 15min walk (or a few minutes drive).
Whilst none of us are happy with the changes, let's not paint the picture of NRO any darker than it is already or they'll never get the numbers back up. :)
They have a coffee machine on site and when I go there I usually take sandwiches and either sit where the machine is,or take my sandwiches back to the car for some air and a change of scenery.