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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: teach3r on Monday 31 July 17 15:30 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone and thank you in advance for any help that can be given.
From Ancestry I have found the Index card and Roll of Individuals entries for my Great grandfather Henry James Eustace (1879-1965). I have looked for the service record but cannot find this as I guess it must have been one of the many that were destroyed in the WW2 bombings.
The rolls show that he was with Railways, Royal Engineers. Could anyone let me know how I could find out exactly where he served in WW1 and what he did please? I understand that one option is to visit the Royal Engineers Museum in Gillingham; however, as I live in Cardiff this isn't really possible.
I am also curious on the rolls what the "48" (in the rank column) means and also the pencil mark to the right (theatres of war column). The red circles on the attached image have been made by me.
Any additional information about my G-Grandfather in WW1 is much appreciated.
Regards,
Nic
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I don't think the 48 is of any significance. It looks like something to do with the Issue Vouchers.
The other looks like the clerk's signature.
One avenue to explore is the 1918 Absent Voter's list for where his home address was.
This may give a Coy. or Div.
Just to add, WR = Waterways & Railways so may have worked on either.
What was his occupation pre war ?
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Not very specific, but might add some background ...
http://www.1914-1918.net/cre.htm
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Thanks Jim and SmallTownGirl,
As he was a platelayer on the Railway before and after the war and the rolls book states Railway at the top I am assuming he worked on the Railways for the RE but thank you for indicating that WR means Waterways and Railways. I was wondering whether the pencil mark was "Ors" which is a town in France?
Thank you Jim for the suggestion of the Absent Voters List (I didn't know about that one!). I have done a search using Findmypast but could not find Henry.
Thanks for any further help.
Nic
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No help specifically but the book "Trains to the Trenches" by Andrew Roden might be of interest, copy on Ebay for less than £6 or your local library might be able to get one.
maxD
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http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-corps-of-royal-engineers-in-the-first-world-war/railway-construction-companies-of-the-royal-engineers/ (http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-corps-of-royal-engineers-in-the-first-world-war/railway-construction-companies-of-the-royal-engineers/)
That'll give you a rough idea.
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Thanks MaxD, I have just ordered the book you suggested. I have also ordered one called "Great War Railway Men".
Thanks BashLad for the really interesting link. Now to try and work out exactly where he served and what he did.
Nic
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Nic
The problem, that jim1 alluded to earlier, is that without knowing what company he served with, it is difficult to find the haystack, never mind the needle! In addition to the long list of rail construction companies Bashlad cited, there were 45 Light Railway Operating companies also.
However, his number may hold a clue which I am looking for help with elsewhere, I'll let you know!
maxD
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Thanks for you continued help MaxD - much appreciated.
Nic
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Hi MaxD,
Not sure if this helps but I have found Henry's entry in the Railways General Register of Members which shows that he retired on 7th July 1944. In the remarks column it has the following:
Jd. army ?
Dis. 1.6.19.
There is a space before the question mark which looks like something has been rubbed out.
Thanks,
Nic
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It's his joining date (attestation) that's been rubbed out.
As he doesn't have the 14/15 Star you know he didn't go overseas until at least 1916.
It's his Coy. or Div. you need to find if possible.
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Thanks Jim,
I have also just noticed that his membership of the amalgamated society of railway servants started 30th January 1919; however, he wasn't discharged from the army until 1st June 1919. Would it be possible that upon returning to England he fairly quickly went back to his old job and the official discharge was later or would he have been able to have been a member of the society even though he was still in the army?
The more I dig, the more questions I have!
Thanks for the continued help,
Nic
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Nic
I have, with significant help from an acknowledged expert on another forum, established that his first number indicates he joined the army in May/Jun 1916 (as jim1 says). His WR number was allocated in a reorganisation of the RE railway folk starting in Mar 1918. I am currently engaged in some further digging which may at least tell us what unit he was in when the numbers changed. That will be better than nothing!
maxD
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Well done Max.
Your man would have gone onto the Z list meaning he went back to civvy st. but in reserve in case the Germans kicked off again.
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I believe I have a possible/probable (?) unit for Henry. Jim1 will be familiar with the black art of checking records for numbers near to the subject's for similarities. This is made easier in his case because of the earlier information that told us that about a re-org of numbers within the railways element of the RE.
Firstly, RE numbers around the 1749** area are as far as I can tell, almost all railwaymen of one sort or another and the RE railways medal roll in which 174955 appears has a whole slew of men, in alphabetical order whose numbers are neatly in numerical order below and above that number. That accords with the information that each unit provided its list of men who were to receive new WR numbers.
Secondly, and perhaps more persuasive, I find:
174945 2/Cpl Acton becoming WR 256557 unit 275 Railway Company
174960 Spr Lay becoming WR 256571 unit 275 Railway Company
Two others 174946 and 174970 who did not get a WR numbers were also in 275 Railway Company.
While the evidence is circumstantial, in the absence of anything else, and with Acton and Lay neatly bracketing (artillery term!) Henry in what is clearly the nominal roll of a unit, I would invest £3.50 in the war diary which will at least show what such a company got up to and, if you are persuaded, could be seen as describing some or part of Henry's war experiences.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/762f221ccaf146e5ae36c30366ed31a2
maxD
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Secondly, and perhaps more persuasive, I find:
174945 2/Cpl Acton becoming WR 256557 unit 275 Railway Company
174955 Spr. Eustace WR 256566
174960 Spr Lay becoming WR 256571 unit 275 Railway Company
Good bit of sleuthing MaxD.
Difficult to see he could have been anything other than 275 R.Coy.
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Thank you MaxD for your hard work and time that you have kindly given (please also pass on my thanks to your "expert on another forum"). I have learnt a lot from both yours and Jim1's guidance and advice.
Your logical and thorough approach makes for a very strong argument as to Henry's company.
I have just finished downloading the war diary as suggested and will have a good read now.
Thank you both again!
Regards,
Nic
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MaxD & Jim1,
For interest, 174945 2/Cpl Acton J is mentioned in the diaries as follows:
22/9/17 .... to No 5 Stationary Hospital Dieppe
Sapper E Lay is also mentioned:
30/12/18 .... admitted to hospital
Frustrating that sometimes men are mentioned by name whilst at other times it just says "other rank".
WR numbers seem to be in the diary from June 1918 coinciding with an influx of additional men into the company. Numbers all around Henry are mentioned but alas, he isn't (e.g. WR/256564 Sapper W Cross, WR/ 256565 Sapper WW Dew).
In February 1919 it seems that many men were beginning to be dispersed by being moved to concentration camps.
Letter received 14/6/19 authorising break up of company. Final entry is 31st July 1919.
Thank you both again for your help, wisdom and patience!
Nic
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Hi MaxD / Jim1
If you fancy another challenge, I have added this latest post to the Forum: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776454.0 about my Great Grandmother's brother who also fought in WW1.
Regards,
Nic