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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: Mei on Wednesday 09 August 17 19:01 BST (UK)
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I wonder if anyone would like to shed some light on this stone? It was handed down through the generations in Cwmwysg, Breconshire, possibly from the Watkins family of Bryntywarch, Llwyncor, Brynmaen and back to Callwen.
It is inscribed " L Powel"
Diolch, Mei.
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It is certainly in the style of early Pictish and Celtic carvings, which can be dated to early ADs. Many were fertility symbols. I was fascinated by these carvings at one time and have lots of books on them but haven't seen any photos of this one.
Not sure about the authenticity of this, especially as it has L Powel inscribed on it - possibly a more modern copy :-\
How big is it and where is it now?
Gadget
Added - trying to find some examples but many seem to be on Pinterest which is difficult .
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handed down through the generations in Cwmwysg, Breconshire, possibly from the Watkins family
It is inscribed " L Powel"
Have you found a connection with Watkins & L Powel which may shed some light?
Annie
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Thanks Gadget - it's about 14" high - on the bottom right there's a 50p piece to give a sense of scale.
Thanks too Rosinish. There is a link between these two families, which I'm looking into now. I'll keep posting the findings
Mei
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I think this is late 17th century, are the tools of his trade on the reverse?
Skoosh.
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Thanks Skoosh. There is nothing on the reverse. Only the red soil of Breconshire.
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Looking at the inscribed pic wearing a skirt...could 'L Powel' relate to a female (possibly done for her) rather than the person who did the work ???
Annie
Edit...Have just enlarged the pic....Male ;)
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It's very like some Scottish stones, he 's wearing typical jacket n waistcoat, breeches & stockings of the period Mei. What is the carving on the left hand side?
Skoosh.
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Is this the Callwen of the Chapel - dedicated to St Callwen? A Welsh early Christian saint who was believed to be a member of the Brychan family.
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Is that a carver's identification mark "M" or "W" on the reverse? Not that it will help ID it. Who was the earliest known owner of the stone that you are aware of (date wise)?
The fashions are probably an indication of date as already mentioned. Though it could have been carved later - it can't have been carved prior to that style of clothing. :)
It's a lovely thing to have.
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One can imagine mysterious knocking during the night until it's returned to its rightful owner! ;D
Skoosh.
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That's what it reminds me of - the figures on the cover of an old copy of the Mabinogion. We had to read it in school in Welsh 8)
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Gadget, this earliest Welsh literature? hails from the kingdom of Strathclyde in the south of Scotland where Old Welsh was still spoken in isolated places until the Wars of Independence.
Skoosh.
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Not sure if Welsh Celtic hails from Scotland - I was taught that the Welsh Celts in the SW were part of the wider Welsh Celtic principalities. Some of the old lineage books that I have have the Kings of Ireland and Man in them.
I've not got them off the shelf for a good while,so this from memory.
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To refresh your memory Gadget, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_Gododdin
Glasgow's oldest place-names are Welsh, then Gaelic then Scots. Glasgow & the Clyde are both Welsh.
Skoosh.
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Yep - When I say SW Scotland, I mean Glasgow and Inverclyde down to Ayrshire and D & G. Most of my Scottish lines come from there too.
I once read- can't remember the ref - about the importance of the Irish Sea in our islands' history. If you centre a map on the Irish Sea, you can see how the peoples of the surrounding lands were so intermixed. Sea travel was so much better than land travel in those days.
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Gadget, Scotland south of the Forth was Welsh & indeed Pictish may also have been a related language. The Battle of Carham put a stop to Northumbrian ambitions & Gaelic spread to the present border!
Skoosh.
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Thank you Rosinish: I have made some fresh research and came up with a candidate to fit the "L Powel" inscribed on the stone. My gt gt gt gt grandfather was the rev William Watkins, curate of Callwen. His daughter, Gwenllian Watkins, married Llewelyn Powel. Could he be the figure in relief? and could he have been a clegyman? His style and attire are similar to those of people like Howell/Hywel Harries of Trefeca.
Gadget: Yes, the Callwen I refer to is the church between Defynnog and the the top of the Swansea Valley - not far from Dan-yr-Ogof Caves.
I'm beginning to wonder whether this could be a boundary stone? or possibly a stone placed above the entrance to a house or other building?
By the way, if anyone is interested in our family history - families in Cwmwysg (Breconshire) and Llanddeusant (Carmarthenshire), let me know and I'll send a link to the family tree.
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Just a thought, Mei, when did Llewelyn Powel die? I'm wondering if it could be a flat grave stone or a monument in the church that has been removed. One of my Scots ancestors (6x grt grandfather) was a minister and has a flat stone over his grave with an inscription and celtic carving in his case.
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I'll see if I vcan find Llewelyn Powel's dates. M