RootsChat.Com
General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Rena on Saturday 12 August 17 15:16 BST (UK)
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It's obvious from many postings that chatters are surprised when their DNA result shows that there's an unexpected percentage of genes from far flung places. The main gene base of the UK is normally associated with neighbouring European Tribes, such as Scandinavian Vikings, Jutes, Angles, Saxons, Barbarians and Norman French.
It's easy to think of the enormous Roman Empire being policed by soldiers from Rome but the truth is that during their two periods of rule over Britain; (the first being Julius Ceasar before Christ was born and then again from 43AD), , their Armies consisted of Legions of soldiers raised from all over their Empire. Additionally they traded with sources outside of their Empire and, as is the norm today, it was also the case that Merchants would have their own representative inside the Roman Empire where inter marriage might have taken place, which could explain any ancient Asian genes.
I thought chatters might like to view the list of countries where the Roman Empire formed its military units which could give them more of an insight of their ancestry. I was more than surprised to see that the Roman Army that fought Boudica leader of the Celtic English Icene tribe was raised in Wales
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_legions
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There is a discussion (with the usual sh*t-storms) going on in the papers and social media about DNA and "ethinicity" of britons at the moment;
here's one of the articles:
The village was classified as white British in ethnic origin from census data, but the saliva samples contributed by almost 120 of the residents – including the pub landlord, a farmer, an artist, a marketing director and the village historian – told another story: not a single individual of those tested was 100% English.
Just 42.5% of their DNA was Anglo-Saxon in origin: other ancestry derived from Europe, from Finland to Spain, the Celtic nations, including Scotland, Wales and Ireland, Native American, Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Melanesia.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/aug/11/ive-got-some-viking-surprising-results-of-dna-test-on-english-villagers
and another:
https://www.the-tls.co.uk/roman-britain-black-white/
These are two of just many articles.
Bob
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Good evening,
I have to disagree with your saying that the Roman army that defeated Boudica were raised in Wales. No Roman legio's were ever raised in Britain although they would have recruited locals to replace losses in battle.
4 legions were sent from Europe in AD43 to conquer Britain, legio's II Augusta, IV Victrix, IX ?? And XIV Hispana. The XIV Hispana brought Boudica to battle at Watling st where they defeated her. They were raised in Gaul by Ceaser, destroyed and replaced immediately. They were based in Germanica Superior from AD9 until the invasion of Britain.
Their main base after the battle was in Wales so would probably have recruited there.
John915
Added; Sorry, VI Victrix arrived later and were the builders of Hadrians wall. The 4th invading legion was XX Valeria Victrix.
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Good evening,
I have to disagree with your saying that the Roman army that defeated Boudica were raised in Wales. No Roman legio's were ever raised in Britain although they would have recruited locals to replace losses in battle.
4 legions were sent from Europe in AD43 to conquer Britain, legio's II Augusta, IV Victrix, IX ?? And XIV Hispana. The XIV Hispana brought Boudica to battle at Watling st where they defeated her. They were raised in Gaul by Ceaser, destroyed and replaced immediately. They were based in Germanica Superior from AD9 until the invasion of Britain.
Their main base after the battle was in Wales so would probably have recruited there.
John915
Added; Sorry, VI Victrix arrived later and were the builders of Hadrians wall. The 4th invading legion was XX Valeria Victrix.
Must say, I was surprised reading about the Welsh on the link that I gave.
Despite the thoughts about my age that my gt grandchildren hold, ;D I didn't live in those times, so I'm reliant on TV programmes such as documentaries and "Time Team", etc., for any snippets about our islands past history.
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Alistair Moffat in "The Scots, a Genetic Journey!" claims that there is only slight evidence in the Ydna of the Roman occupation of the south of what was to become Scotland & surprisingly, despite the temporary northward push of Northumbria, not much evidence of Anglian dna from that era either.
Skoosh.
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Alistair Moffat in "The Scots, a Genetic Journey!" claims that there is only slight evidence in the Ydna of the Roman occupation of the south of what was to become Scotland & surprisingly, despite the temporary northward push of Northumbria, not much evidence of Anglian dna from that era either.
Skoosh.
My rudimentary history knowledge of the border between Scotland and England was learnt in the 1940s and was really basic. All I recall of those lessons were that the Scottish Picts were a fierce tribe who disliked any encroachment by the tribe living on land south of their border. This land being occupied by a tribe going by the name of "the Scots". The invasion of Britannia by the Angles came later in history and the southerm part of the large/great island of the Britannia islands was thence known as Angleland = England.
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Good morning,
The romans 4 legions were spread around England and after some time here fraternisation took place.
In East Anglia there was little at first because it was a scene of much skirmishing against the Iceni. Scotland wasn't really touched at first and was then the scene of several attempts to quell the Scots and Picts. No permanent base was ever established up there and the Romans eventually withdrew past Hadrians wall.
Having subdued much of England then fraternisation became greater except in the far south west and in Wales. They made several forays into Wales culminating in the battle to defeat the druids in their base at ??? (Gone brain dead). They then invaded Anglesey.
So most Roman genes would be found within England, some in Wales and Anglia with little in Scotland.
Of course, with the movement of people around the UK since then the gene pool will have spread.
John915
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Good morning,
The romans 4 legions were spread around England and after some time here fraternisation took place.
Having subdued much of England then fraternisation became greater
John915
There's occasional news about the discovery in Britain of Roman writing tablets and I recall one being read out on TV which was from an imported celebrity "slave" gladiator to his wife who seemed to be living the "life of Riley".
What I thought striking was the discovery under London of more tablets and one particular one that was published in a newspaper:-
"The first evidence of Roman Britain's slave trade has been unearthed: a receipt for a young French girl bought for the equivalent price of a small sports car today.
Faint scratchings on a wooden writing tablet show that a wealthy slave working for the imperial household bought a girl named Fortunata (Lucky), a member of a Celtic tribe living on the borders of Normandy and Brittany. The silver-fir tablet had been preserved in wet London soil for 2,000 years.
Although many Roman slaves were forced to work in mines or on farms, others had relatively high status. Those with a good education were given paid jobs helping to run estates and households for the wealthy. Many became rich enough to buy their own slaves - and their freedom by their thirties.
The 5.5in by 4.5in tablet, found at a City building site, shows that Fortunata cost 600 dinarii, two years' salary for a Roman soldier. The deed, written around AD80, states that she was "warranted healthy and not liable to run away".
The girl was bought by Vegetus, an assistant slave owned by Montanus, who in turn was owned by the emperor. They were both officials in London. As a slave, Vegetus could not technically own property, but in practice Fortunata would have been regarded as one of his personal possessions, possibly a concubine.
Francis Grew, of the Museum of London where the tablet is on display, said it was the first deed of sale for a slave found in Britain"
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Rena, briefly, on a post-card! Pictavia didn't come as far south as the present border, the south of Scotland was the territory of the kingdom of Strathclyde, so Welsh speaking. These Britons were squeezed by the Anglian kingdom of Northumbria & the Vikings from Ireland. The Scots & Picts were united by Kenneth MacAlpine & Northumbria was defeated by the York Vikings who took Deira & the Scots & Picts took Bernicia post the Battle of Carham. The Scots king inherited Strathclyde thus uniting Scotland, leaving only a bit of territorial tidying-up taking territory back from Norway & getting the Northern Isles eventually from Denmark. Gaelic became the language of the whole kingdom for a time as the place-names testify, Galloway already Gaelic speaking. The Northern Isles excepted.
Skoosh,
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The program about the "Crossrail skulls" is opening up new theories about the Romans in Londinium prior to and during Hadrian's reign. It's worth a watch.
Regards
Malky
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John 915's final remark is crucial. As to the XIVth Hispana and the Iceni, they being Welsh must be nonsence. The Iceni rebellion was only 18 years after the Roman invasion. The British gave the Romans all sorts of trouble, the same as Judea. The Romans were hardly into Wales. The Silures (South East Wales) were big trouble and took a lot of beating. Some of them survived. I remember being on holiday there, and being bored with grownups went for a walk around Newport, Mon. Saw these prostitutes plying their trade and was surprised by their black haired beauty and olive skin. Signs of Mediterranean and Spanish ancestry. When the Romans first saw them, they must have had a double take.
The internal migrations in UK since then have admixed different races markedly.
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So you've met my auntie Bessie then? ;D
Skoosh.
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So you've met my auntie Bessie then? ;D
Skoosh.
Tee Hee,
You talking to me Skoosh? I wouldn't cast such aspersions on your Aunt Bessie.
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Here's a Silure. Mind you her daughter's children are all blonde blue eyed Aryans, ho hum.
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(http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/images/Britain.south.peoples.Ptolemy.jpg)
....
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This blog has some good maps and info about Roman Britain, including some info about the Oxford University DNA research.
(It's an interesting site for history bits and bobs and the blogger is also interested in genealogy.)
abroadintheyard maps of Britain and Ireland’s ancient tribes, kingdoms and DNA
http://www.abroadintheyard.com/maps-britain-ireland-ancient-tribes-kingdoms-dna/
'...Scientists from Oxford University recently studied the genetic make up of modern Britons and were amazed to find that they still live in the same broad tribal groupings as their ancestors almost 1,500 years ago...'
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Rena, briefly, on a post-card! Pictavia didn't come as far south as the present border, the south of Scotland was the territory of the kingdom of Strathclyde, so Welsh speaking. These Britons were squeezed by the Anglian kingdom of Northumbria & the Vikings from Ireland. The Scots & Picts were united by Kenneth MacAlpine & Northumbria was defeated by the York Vikings who took Deira & the Scots & Picts took Bernicia post the Battle of Carham. The Scots king inherited Strathclyde thus uniting Scotland, leaving only a bit of territorial tidying-up taking territory back from Norway & getting the Northern Isles eventually from Denmark. Gaelic became the language of the whole kingdom for a time as the place-names testify, Galloway already Gaelic speaking. The Northern Isles excepted.
Skoosh,
Ta ever so :D That could explain why my not very common lowland surname that I've only taken back to late 17th century, is also to be found in Wales.
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The program about the "Crossrail skulls" is opening up new theories about the Romans in Londinium prior to and during Hadrian's reign. It's worth a watch.
Regards
Malky
Thanks for the pointer - I'd missed the programme but think I've found an online Channel 4 video.
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I've enjoyed your additional input Bob, John, Malky, Regonain and sallyyorks - the links provided have been extremely interesting, but I wouldn't get good grades on any exam papers :D.
I noted the comments about tribal intermarrying but it seems to me that my ancestors from several Scottish Counties married spouses with fair skin and blue eyes and the same thing happened with my English tribes who were also born and bred in far flung counties.
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I would have expected most Romans to have left Britannia when the Legions were withdrawn. The Birley family bought Vinderlanda in the 1930's. It has been a treasure trove of artifacts ever since. The Batavian (Dutch) auxiliary infantry cohort (battalion) may have been from c410 when it left, but I don't know.
England is largely Anglo Saxon, Danes and Norse. For instance from mid England Northwards are place names ending in by or a secondary name Thorpe. These are Danish. Remember England could have ended up called Daneland, if it wasn't for Alfred the Great. He was the man who envisaged Englaland...England. It took a long time and his children and beyond to Athelstan. The Danes and Norse were not exterminated, but their leaders were or forced out. Cumbria is inhabited by Norse who had been driven out of Ireland by the Irish. Melvyn Bragg is proud to be a Viking.
My family lived in the Forest of Dean in the 19th Century. There were lots of Welsh and Irish in the Forest. Originally, Dean was Welsh.
In the last 150 years, much migration everywhich way. Modern DNA testing says next to nothing of who lived where previously.
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England is largely Anglo Saxon, Danes and Norse...
Not as much as used to be thought
Oxford University/The Wellcome Trust did a DNA study, the largest of its kind, of British people, the findings were published in 2015.
Their research suggested that the majority of English peoples DNA was not Anglo Saxon, Dane or Norse and was still from the Pre Roman era. They had expected more Anglo Saxon than they actually found (around 10 to 40% % ?).
The colours on the map in the link represent relatedness to each other and not an actual nation/ethnic group. So the red doesn't represent 'Anglo-Saxon'or 'Dane' for example. It just means they are closer in relation, than to other colours, but still related to the other colours (hope that makes sense). So the blue triangles of West Yorkshire have more in common with each other than any other group but they are still related to everyone else. Hope I have got that right.
It's interesting research and was a very large comprehensive study
Wellcome Trust Centre for Human Genetics Who do you think you really are?
http://www.well.ox.ac.uk/who-do-you-think-you-really-are
'The analyses suggest there was a substantial migration across the channel after the original post-ice-age settlers, but before Roman times. DNA from these migrants spread across England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, but had little impact in Wales. These migrations, probably over many years, are probably the largest single contributor to the DNA of much of modern England, but effectively nothing is known about them.'
(http://www.well.ox.ac.uk/_asset/image/pobi-map-jpg.jpeg/fit/300/300/FF0000)
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I hesitate to take on academic knowledge which should be irrefutable. However, being 74, I have been witness to the social attitudes during my time. Back in the 50's and 60's there was considerable anti-Welsh sentiment. The sing-song Welsh accent was grating to the English ear. A year or so ago a Welsh woman Dot with strong accent commentated on tennis for BBC, she doesn't now. Now, the Welsh are just ignored.
A couple of years ago, I attended a dinner with 6 or 8 People in a rather nice Thai restaurant in Basingstoke, all middle class professionals. Someone made some remark and I replied 'well, the English are krauts'. Shock, horror, silence. Eventually, someone muttered, 'the Royal Family perhaps'.
It seems that the English have been distancing themselves from their Germanic roots, rewriting history.
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I hesitate to take on academic knowledge which should be irrefutable. However, being 74, I have been witness to the social attitudes during my time. Back in the 50's and 60's there was considerable anti-Welsh sentiment. The sing-song Welsh accent was grating to the English ear. A year or so ago a Welsh woman Dot with strong accent commentated on tennis for BBC, she doesn't now. Now, the Welsh are just ignored.
A couple of years ago, I attended a dinner with 6 or 8 People in a rather nice Thai restaurant in Basingstoke, all middle class professionals. Someone made some remark and I replied 'well, the English are krauts'. Shock, horror, silence. Eventually, someone muttered, 'the Royal Family perhaps'.
It seems that the English have been distancing themselves from their Germanic roots, rewriting history.
I don't know what they used to teach in your Welsh school about English history but it sounds like something out of the Edwardian, even the Victorian, era!
Perhaps your fellow diners didn't have a clue what you meant by your strange 'reply', and went silent because they were trying to be polite?
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I hesitate to take on academic knowledge which should be irrefutable. However, being 74, I have been witness to the social attitudes during my time. Back in the 50's and 60's there was considerable anti-Welsh sentiment. The sing-song Welsh accent was grating to the English ear. A year or so ago a Welsh woman Dot with strong accent commentated on tennis for BBC, she doesn't now. Now, the Welsh are just ignored.
A couple of years ago, I attended a dinner with 6 or 8 People in a rather nice Thai restaurant in Basingstoke, all middle class professionals. Someone made some remark and I replied 'well, the English are krauts'. Shock, horror, silence. Eventually, someone muttered, 'the Royal Family perhaps'.
It seems that the English have been distancing themselves from their Germanic roots, rewriting history.
I don't know what they used to teach in your Welsh school about English history but it sounds like something out of the Edwardian, even the Victorian, era!
Perhaps your fellow diners didn't have a clue what you meant by your strange 'reply', and went silent because they were trying to be polite?
Apart from the use of a derogatory and offensive term
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Good evening,
I hesitate to take on academic knowledge which should be irrefutable. However, being 74, I have been witness to the social attitudes during my time. Back in the 50's and 60's there was considerable anti-Welsh sentiment. The sing-song Welsh accent was grating to the English ear. A year or so ago a Welsh woman Dot with strong accent commentated on tennis for BBC, she doesn't now. Now, the Welsh are just ignored.
A couple of years ago, I attended a dinner with 6 or 8 People in a rather nice Thai restaurant in Basingstoke, all middle class professionals. Someone made some remark and I replied 'well, the English are krauts'. Shock, horror, silence. Eventually, someone muttered, 'the Royal Family perhaps'.
It seems that the English have been distancing themselves from their Germanic roots, rewriting history.
I don't know what they used to teach in your Welsh school about English history but it sounds like something out of the Edwardian, even the Victorian, era!
Perhaps your fellow diners didn't have a clue what you meant by your strange 'reply', and went silent because they were trying to be polite?
Apart from the use of a derogatory and offensive term
I agree YT, plus our roots are not just Germanic but cover the whole of Europe and beyond. This country has a truly cosmopolitan background and even more so in the present day.
John915
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I would have expected most Romans to have left Britannia when the Legions were withdrawn. The Birley family bought Vinderlanda in the 1930's. It has been a treasure trove of artifacts ever since. The Batavian (Dutch) auxiliary infantry cohort (battalion) may have been from c410 when it left, but I don't know.
England is largely Anglo Saxon, Danes and Norse. For instance from mid England Northwards are place names ending in by or a secondary name Thorpe. These are Danish. Remember England could have ended up called Daneland, if it wasn't for Alfred the Great. He was the man who envisaged Englaland...England. It took a long time and his children and beyond to Athelstan. The Danes and Norse were not exterminated, but their leaders were or forced out. Cumbria is inhabited by Norse who had been driven out of Ireland by the Irish. Melvyn Bragg is proud to be a Viking.
My family lived in the Forest of Dean in the 19th Century. There were lots of Welsh and Irish in the Forest. Originally, Dean was Welsh.
In the last 150 years, much migration everywhich way. Modern DNA testing says next to nothing of who lived where previously.
Of the millions of people trying to trace their roots, a minority have had their DNA tested and have been querying where a small percentage of their genepool originated, which is different from where they lived in recorded history.
I don't study ancient history but have picked up a smidgen from watching such programmes as "Time Team" where I've heard scholars explaining that important Romans did in fact marry daughters of rich local tribal leaders. And since reading about rich slaves I'm all the more intrigued!
As for the era when North of Watford was governed by Dane Law, I still use words of Danish origin, such as "gelt" for cash (Have you got any gelt on you?) which derives from Danegelt currency.
The only thing I know about the Welsh is that they're extremely difficult to trace, even the 19th century ancestors lol.
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A year or so ago a Welsh woman Dot with strong accent commentated on tennis for BBC, she doesn't now. Now, the Welsh are just ignored.
As I probably live in a different area to you (the English north west) I receive different BBC and ITV channels and can assure you that there are plenty of daily and weekly Welsh presenters, some with Welsh lilts and some with barely discernable accents. Just today I have listened to presenters Iwan Thomas, Gabby (Yorath) Logan, and Colin Jackson.
Tomorrow evening I will be watching bubbly female TV host Alex Jones. Two of my favourite regular programme host presenters are Sian Williams and Aled Jones. The list goes on.
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Good evening,
Back tracking a little to Rena's mention of slaves who owned slaves. She mentions that the girl was owned by Vegetus who was owned by Montanus in turn owned by the emporer.
That short piece says a lot, it tells me that Montanus was an important person. The fact that the emporer owned him is a crucial fact, why would a slave owned by him be in Britain. Quite simply, he was most likely Frumantaria, (the emporers private spy network). He would have had immediate access to the communication line back to Rome and would keep the emporer informed of what people were doing to whom, with what and when.
Owning his own slaves was a perk of the job and helped keep his cover from being blown. Whatever job he supposedly had in Britain would have been a cover for his other activities.
John915
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U mean an undercover agent who went Roman in the Gloamin? ;D
Skoosh,
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Aye,
wi a 600 dinari French lassie by his side!!
Malky
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Nothing changes
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Money talks all languages!
Enjoying the history lesson greatly!
Cheers
Jack Gee
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Anyone interested
"Vikings" - part 2 of 3 - tonight at 9pm on Channel 4 - with Neil Oliver
( repeats shown previously on BBC2}
Kim
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Kim, enjoyed the programme but can't stand Neil Oliver! Shoves hair aside & adjusts shoulder bag! ;D
Skoosh.
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Good afternoon,
I think he once let his hair down from a high tower. Waiting for a braw wee scots laddie to come to his aid.
John915
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;D
I do not like Neil Oliver either but last week gritted my teeth and watched as I had missed the previous broadcasts !
Kim
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Some great puns appearing today ;D
I shall be watching the Channel 4 programme tonight and hope it's as interesting as one I watched last night where a group of men built a basic boat from bent willow branches, animal hides and grease to see if it was feasible that islanders, including Vikings, could cross the turbulent narrow channel which is extremely dangerous considering it's the place where the North Sea meets the Atlantic Ocean. Success after five hours of solid rowing, poor things.
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Rena, you might think they would have put a wee sail up & saved all that rowing, a coo's hide would be the very thing with one hand on the rudder & the other on the coos tail, so a "tail-wind" was invented! ;D
The Viking slavery prog was good but Oliver still a scunner!
Skoosh.
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Rena, you might think they would have put a wee sail up & saved all that rowing, a coo's hide would be the very thing with one hand on the rudder & the other on the coos tail, so a "tail-wind" was invented! ;D
The Viking slavery prog was good but Oliver still a scunner!
Skoosh.
;D
lol - if you'd seen the image of the viking boat they "copied" and the eventual rowing boat they put together you'd have had a bit more to say ;D
Aye, Oliver's hair is showing its age, but how do you break into TV unless you have something unique to offer - such as a main of long wavy hair? Bet it keeps his head warm in winter ;D
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Hi Skoos, i am loving this thread.
But my Aussie translation has trouble with SCUNNER.
cHEERS
JACK
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Quick tip for meanings of UK dialect/regional/archaic words: https://www.google.co.uk
Save it to your favourites list, and you'll never be baffled again! Try it with 'scunner' - I just did ;D
Carol
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Good evening,
Back tracking a little to Rena's mention of slaves who owned slaves. She mentions that the girl was owned by Vegetus who was owned by Montanus in turn owned by the emporer.
That short piece says a lot, it tells me that Montanus was an important person. The fact that the emporer owned him is a crucial fact, why would a slave owned by him be in Britain. Quite simply, he was most likely Frumantaria, (the emporers private spy network). He would have had immediate access to the communication line back to Rome and would keep the emporer informed of what people were doing to whom, with what and when.
Owning his own slaves was a perk of the job and helped keep his cover from being blown. Whatever job he supposedly had in Britain would have been a cover for his other activities.
John915
Spies? You whet my appetite. After copying and pasting "Frumantaria"into my search engine, I was met with pages of gobbledegook (Latin?), but was rewarded when searching using the root of the word and bingo - up popped "Frumentarii".
For those who enjoy peeping into a veritable viper's nest it's a blood thirsty experience. Thank goodness I didn't live in those eras!!
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Good afternoon,
They were indeed a nasty lot. Originally uniformed officials charged with the purchase of grain and other supplies. It was quickly realised that they were ideally placed to gather info about the countries they were in.
From there it was a short step to spying on there own countrymen, the Romans were a nasty, suspicious lot all round and as we know, there was more infighting amongst the Romans than there was against others.
Several of the emperors had their own private spy networks and some of the nastiest were slaves. One or two were more powerful than the Roman hierachy with the direct ear of the emperor for whom they also carried out assassinations as a result of their spying.
Perhaps DNA tests on some of the last centuries famous spies would show it runs in the family, for centuries past.
John915
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"Fair scunnered at this weather!" ;D
Skoosh.
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I have 6% autosomal DNA from Southern Europe (Italy and Greece), I think it might be from the Roman period but there's no definitive way of prooving that.
Other than that I seem to match Swedish, Norwegian and Dutch people, not really a surprise for East Anglia.
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I think that I will just rummage around on my hard-drive.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/9912822/DNA-ancestry-tests-branded-meaningless.html
Regards
Malky
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Thats interesting; https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/genetic-ancestry/why
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/debunking
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I have 6% autosomal DNA from Southern Europe (Italy and Greece), I think it might be from the Roman period but there's no definitive way of proving that.
The vast Ottoman Empire (Turks) succeeded from the Roman Empire and ruled for a few hundred years, maybe there was a general exodus northward before the fighting began?
P.S. Have just found a few more "movement of people" maps - Can't believe how much of Europe King Henry "owned".
http://historyofenglishpodcast.com/maps/
I can't find the webpage now but there's a map of the movement of the various Crusades to the Holy Land and i think it could also be possible for ancient ancestry dna to have joined a crusade on its journey to Jerusalem and then returned with the main body of the crusaders.
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Won't the DNA results be corrupted by the natural movement of peoples post the last ice-age?
Regards
Malky
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Just found this fascinating. Read P1 but time calls tonight. First comments.1) I think it unlikely that Caesar's expeditions of 55-54BC would contribute much if anything to the gene pool, commercial contacts during this period at Chichester and Poole much more likely to.
2) A later historian based in Eboracum (York) refers to "the children with their Spanish faces----"; surely a reference to the XIV Hispania Legion being stationed there.
Hope to comment further when I read the next 5 pages.
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Thanks to Youngtug for the very informative links; reading these might save people much disappointment and frustration (not to mention a pound or two).
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It was reading Flattybasher9's link that lead me to look that up.
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Thats interesting; https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/genetic-ancestry/why
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/debunking
I don't believe in them, but wondered what "horoscopes" had to do with DNA, so had to surf:
http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2016/02/your_ancestry_is_about_as_informative_as_your_horoscope.html
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Won't the DNA results be corrupted by the natural movement of peoples post the last ice-age?
Regards
Malky
We now know that there is evidence of villages under the North Sea which indicates that at one time Britain was attached to Scandinavia and the English Channel didn't completely cut off our island from mainland Europe.
I've found three maps; one which shows one of the ice ages, one that has a shaded area to indicate where solid land used to be prior to the ice cap melting.
Then there's a third image which shows how large Dogger Bank, in the North Sea, used to be last century but which is now practically hidden below sea level due to climate change.
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I watched the program this morning about the Black-death. They were saying, prior to the B-D outbreak, most people stayed where they were, as they were tied the local landowner, and that was that. Then post B-D, due to the high levels of mortality, suddenly, it became a employees market, free to travel where they wished, gaining the best terms for their labour.
Regards
Malky
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Thats interesting; https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/genetic-ancestry/why
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/debunking
I don't believe in them, but wondered what "horoscopes" had to do with DNA, so had to surf:
http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2016/02/your_ancestry_is_about_as_informative_as_your_horoscope.html
So, you did not read my links?
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Thats interesting; https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/genetic-ancestry/why
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/debunking
I don't believe in them, but wondered what "horoscopes" had to do with DNA, so had to surf:
http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2016/02/your_ancestry_is_about_as_informative_as_your_horoscope.html
So, you did not read my links?
I thought I'd read them - and have had to check - yes I did. You'll have to forgive me if my brain is wired up differently from yours and I looked for something I could get a grip of. I had the same problem at school, some teachers were as clear as mud, yet for the same subject other teachers explanations were as clear as the nose on my face. :D