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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Westmeath => Topic started by: Gerryk on Monday 14 August 17 23:41 BST (UK)

Title: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Monday 14 August 17 23:41 BST (UK)
Wed Margaret Fagan in Athboy, 25 Oct 1849.
Daughter Maria baptised 7 Oct 1851 in Delvin.
13 years later, daughter Margaret born in Kells, 26 Sep 1864.
3 years later, son Michael baptised 30 Aug 1867 in Multyfarnham.

Wife Margaret, widow, Postmistress in Ballinalack, 1901.

Athboy, Delvin, Kells, Multy. But, a gap of 13 years...?

His granddaughter, now deceased, attested to the kinship of the three children.
Any ideas?
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 15 August 17 00:22 BST (UK)
He was a Constable.  Michael's birth cert is here:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

MICHAEL FLYNN
Date of Birth   1867
Group Registration ID   7379421
SR District/Reg Area   Mullingar

Debra  :)
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 06:25 BST (UK)
Debra,

Thank you so much for that work. I was unaware of that web site. You're great.
Gerry.
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 15 August 17 07:19 BST (UK)
James Flynn born 1st Sep 1864 Ballinalack to John Flynn,police constable, and Margaret Fagan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329462.pdf
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 07:23 BST (UK)
Daithi,
Thank you so much. I never even knew of his existence. John Flynn was my grandmothers grandfather!
Gerry.
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 15 August 17 08:31 BST (UK)
Dates don't make sense?

... 13 years later, daughter Margaret born in Kells, 26 Sep 1864.
... His granddaughter, now deceased, attested to the kinship of the three children.

then
James Flynn born 1st Sep 1864 Ballinalack to John Flynn,police constable, and Margaret Fagan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329462.pdf

Hardly likely that same woman gave birth to a son on 1st September then a daughter 25 days later  :o
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 08:41 BST (UK)
Yes I noted that. A lot more research to be done. I need to get know the web site. Those records are extraordinarily clear. Is it possible to do a generic search on it?
Gerry
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 08:46 BST (UK)
The information I had was that John Flynn wed Margaret Fagan in Athboy in 1849, and that my grandmother's mother was born of their union in 1851. I'll have to revisit all that. Could be a different couple.

Ballinalack is the one certainty. Margaret Flynn, widow, was Postmistress there, aged 78, in the 1901 census. I know for certain she was my grandmother's grandmother. So, with John as Constable in the same small village, the search must begin there.
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 15 August 17 08:47 BST (UK)
Yes I noted that. A lot more research to be done. I need to get know the web site. Those records are extraordinarily clear. Is it possible to do a generic search on it?
Gerry

Not sure what you mean by 'generic.' You can search by just surname (and use wildcards), first name, dates, registration district, etc. For that period you will not be able to search for just father's and mother's surnames to find children.
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 08:51 BST (UK)
I tried that, with wild card forename. Got no results. But could be my error.
Maybe they were married in Multy......

Sadly, life is intervening. I'll get back to this later. Thanks again for all your help. Two good sites - rootschat and Irish genealogy.
Gerry.
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 15 August 17 08:53 BST (UK)
Civil registration of Catholic marriages didn't start until 1864 so there won't be a marriage certificate. You need to look at church registers-
http://registers.nli.ie/
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 08:56 BST (UK)
Thanks. When did civil registration of births begin?
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 15 August 17 08:59 BST (UK)
Registration of births, deaths and Catholic marriages 1864 (from 1845 for non-Catholic marriages).
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 15 August 17 15:10 BST (UK)
You probably already have all this but it might help others trying to help you.
Lot of RIC men in the family.
Margaret with grand daughter Emily in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Ballinalack/Ballinalock/1783946/
by 1911 Emily is married to Richard Freeney RIC.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Westmeath/Ballinalack/Ballinalack_town/886642/
marriage 1902
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10284/5743226.pdf
Emily/Ameila is the daughter of Maria Flynn and Martin Kennedy RIC
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02940/2077410.pdf
Martin and Maria in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Multyfarnham/Multyfarnham_Village/1784138/
Maria is 48 so born c 1852, which fits with the Delvin Baptism.
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 16:30 BST (UK)
Thanks for all that. I had most of it. But it took me two weeks or more to get it!

Also, Richard Feeney was in the station in Ballinalack in 1901 (R.F.). No wonder his eye fell on the postmistress's granddaughter. Small village. And now we know her grandfather had been in the same station (probably died in either 1897 or 1899).

The enigma is Maria, and now her sister Margaret. I think Maria was married in Longwood, Meath (Killyon) in 1873 (Jun 6). But why there?
Where was Margaret born, if not in Kells? I might try Delvin for her as well.

The other discovery has been other siblings, Edward (1852), but in Ballinalack, also Catherine (1856), Thomas (1860, maybe but mother's name was given as Mary), and James (1864).

The big discovery in this thread has been the discovery of the excellent records on Genealogy, which revealed John was a Constable.

I would like to follow up his RIC records, but I am hitting a blank wall with that. Any suggestions or directions?

If John Flynn wed in Athboy in 1849, he could have been assigned to Delvin, either before or after that, and then transferred to Ballinalack sometime after the birth of Maria and before that of Edward. But then, where was Margaret born?
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 16:32 BST (UK)
Oops. Edward was born in Delvin in 1852.  My bad. Gives a few years for Margaret's birth though. Given that history has recorded her as being born in 1864, maybe a rounded 1954 would be a good guess!
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 16:50 BST (UK)
One possibility:

Catherine is Margaret. In the original register, the previous baptism was a Cathr also. Could have been a sleepy priest?
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 15 August 17 17:43 BST (UK)
I think Maria was married in Longwood, Meath (Killyon) in 1873 (Jun 6). But why there?
Perhaps she was working there but often at that period no occupation would be listed for bride. Church register online-
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635226#page/3/mode/1up

Oops. Edward was born in Delvin in 1852.  My bad. Gives a few years for Margaret's birth though. Given that history has recorded her as being born in 1864, maybe a rounded 1954 would be a good guess!

It's possible that Margaret was born shortly before 1864 which is why it's important to thoroughly check church registers for baptisms, etc.
Title: Re: A conundrum: What did John Flynnn work at?
Post by: Gerryk on Tuesday 15 August 17 19:49 BST (UK)
I think I found John Flynn's RIC record. (findmypast.ie). He had Service No 2856, enlisted at the age of 20, from Galway, on 15th July, 1837. He was assigned to Westmeath. He was promoted to Constable on 1st August 1847. He retired on 1st June 1868. He also married, with permission, a woman from Meath.

However, while we think at the moment they were married in 1849, the permission was only given in 1850. Would this ever have been retrospective, or have I the wrong guy? All other details seem to fit.