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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: Tuggybear on Tuesday 15 August 17 15:45 BST (UK)
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As I am currently without all the research I've spent years gathering on my mum-in-law's family due to a computer collapse which my son needs to try and rescue when he has finally got some time, I have decided to use the gifted laptop to try to sort out some of my own Knight family.
My grandfather was JOHN THOMAS CHARLES WILLIAM KNIGHT born 27th October 1894 in Leicester. He was very proud of his Irish gipsy roots.
JTCW was the son of JAMES KNIGHT AND ANNIE NORTH
JAMES was born in 1867 in Leicester.ANNIE was born in Newark, Notts in about 1871.
JAMES was the son of WILLIAM KNIGHT AND MARY ANN AKIENS.
WILLIAM was born christened on 23rd August 1822 in St Margaret's Parish Church in Leicester. He was listed on the census of 1881 as a traveller. He also operated as a General Dealer in1861 and 1871 apparently leaving Mary Ann to run the shop when he went travelling as in 1881. James and his older sister, Catherine, worked at the shop as 'chip choppers.'
It is known among the family that JAMES AND ANNIE had a fairground ride which they operated at the then Leicester Racecourse in Victoria Park Certainly JTCW shared many of the travelling adventures of his father's life before having plenty of similar adventures himself so I have no reason to disbelieve the story about the fairground ride. These stories were told to my Dad and his two borthers before being told to me by Granddad then verified by Grandma, Dad and Uncles.
So, I have my Father, Grandfather, (JTCW) Great Grandfather, (JAMES) and Great, Great Grandfather (WILLIAM) but at this point it gets a bit murky. My first cousin once removed claims that WILLIAM was the son of a JOHN KNIGHTS AND SUSANNAH HERBERT. she won't discuss her version of the family tree with me so I don't know how she has verified that. Another, more distant relative seems fairly certain that WILLIAM'S parents were THOMAS KNIGHT AND CATHERINE HEMSLEY.
JOHN KNIGHT was born in 1795 in Lubenham, Leicestershire and married Susannah at Leicester St Margaret in 1814. My closer relative has credited them with siblings who's parents, from what I have looked at are, in fact, THOMAS KNIGHT and Catherine. Indeed, one of their sons became a Greengrocery Hawker, a trade my granddad undertook as one of his adventures, earning himself the nickname THE APPLE KING OF LEICESTER, another fact my Dad and Uncles were proud of.
I can't find a birth for THOMAS although a family tree on Ancestry has him listed as being born in Leicester in 1784, the only child of VALENTINE KNIGHT AND SARAH GROOM. VALETINE was born in Westminster in 1734 and was the sone of FRANCIS KNIGHT AND ANN YOUNG (FRANCIS was born in London in 1698.
I'm not really sure this fits in with the gipsy roots but can't find any other possibles for THOMAS' parents. Can anyone see anything I'm missing as neither Ancestry nor Family Search seem to be bringing up any information for THOMAS when I search
Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give. :)
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I realize this is not your initial question, but just in case you don't already have it...
Newark Holy Trinity R.C.
Baptism 6 Jan 1871 Ann Shelton dau of William & Charlotte North born 17 Dec 1870
Baptism 27 Oct 1874 George Henry son of William North and Charlotte Matlock born 7 Oct 1874.
I was hoping for an occupation for the father, sadly not mentioned.
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"WILLIAM was born christened on 23rd August 1822 in St Margaret's Parish Church in Leicester."
This baptism has the parents as Thomas and Catherine Knight https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NP46-7HP
1851 with mother in law Akiens
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGFL-ZK1
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Just adding this from the GRO, while I'm looking
Birth
NORTH, ANN MATLOCK
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in NEWARK Volume 07B Page 333
did an 1870 plus 2 years for Newark and the other is a birth 1869 mmn Wells
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Have I got this right?
William's marriage to Mary 1840
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D43-WFK
the marriage is online, my ref disc as
Entry No.467, OCT 11, 1840, after Banns
WILLM. KNIGHT, minor, bach. LABOURER, of BELGRAVE GATE, s. of THOS. KNIGHT, WOOL COMBER
MARY ANN AKINS, minor, sp. of BELGRAVE GATE, d. of JOHN AKINS, WOOL COMBER
Wits: JOHN AKINS, SARAH AKINS
The occupation for Thomas on the 1822 baptism is woolcomber, Humberston Gate
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looking at the baptisms, 1841?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQYP-FPQ
Bath Street
Catherine Knight 35 Leicestershire
Louisa Knight 13 Leicestershire
Elizabeth Knight 9 Leicestershire
Thomas Knight 7 Leicestershire
Joseph Knight 2 Leicestershire
William Knight 19 Leicestershire
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Thank you for the replies. It seems that my William's parents were indeed Thomas and Catherine as William's occupation at the time of his marriage was a labourer and in 1841 he was listed on the census as an agricultural.. labourer. I now have William and Mary Ann's whereabouts traced from 1841 to 1891 and I think that William died in 1893.
I haven't started to research Annie North yet so the information you have shared will be very useful. I hadn't realised there might be a Roman Catholic branch of the family.
Are you able to see Thomas's christening by any chance? 'I think he was also christened at St Margaret.
Thanks again for the help. :)
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Have a look here https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/new
or here https://familysearch.org/search/
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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Could this be a match for Thomas Knight on the 1861 census? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7T5-SF4
with a couple of possible baptism's at Ashby....
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3CH-R9J
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NP7H-94K
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Thanks again for the links. :) Looking at the Ashby de la Zouch baptisms I found two possible matches for Thomas. One in 1792 and one in 1802. Further searching did not reveal a marriage for the parents of either child in Ashby so they probably came from elsewhere. The Thomas born in 1792 appears to have had only one sister born two years earlier so maybe they moved to Leicester after Thomas' birth. I need to look at the John Knight that the Thomas you found in the 1861 census to see if he related to any of the three sets of parents I found in Ashby in the late 1700s.
I am intrigued now as it would seem that the Irish link must go further back than my granddad believed.
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Might this be the marriage?
St Margarets
Entry No.460, JUN 5, 1852, after Banns
JOHN KNIGHT, 24, wid. FWK, of BELGRAVE GATE, s. of THOMAS KNIGHT, WOOLCOMBER
ELIZA WATTS, 24, sp. of BELGRAVE GATE, d. of JOHN WATTS, FWK
Wits: BERNARD FITZSIMONS, CHARLOTTE PADMORE
There are 2 sets of marriages in 1843 for a John Knight on freebmd with no listing on my refs so would register office more likely
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There's this baptism
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQQN-5MR
John James Knight parents Thomas and Catherine
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Have found these burials at Welford Road, all in the grave including John Watts
F 368 Unconsecrated plot
KNIGHT THOMAS 1863 SEP 23 71 BARKBY LANE
KNIGHT JOHN 1870 SEP 18 17 FLEET STREET
WATTS JOHN 1873 JAN 8 82 WHARF STREET
KNIGHT JOHN 1884 JUN 19 56 BELGRAVE GATE
In the paper matching the date, he is as age 72 Thomas Knight of Bedford Street died 19th Sept.
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William and Mary Ann from the date you thought for William
Welford Road
P 855 Consecrated
KNIGHT WILLIAM 1893 NOV 15 70 LEICESTER UNION HOUSE
KNIGHT MARY ANN 1895 DEC 31 72 LEWIN STREET
1891 with his daughter
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WDJ6-QPZ
St Margaret
Entry No.371, DEC 28, 1868, after Banns
GEORGE BARNACLE, 21, bach. WEAVER, of GEORGE St, s. of JOHN BARNACLE, FWK
ELIZA ANN KNIGHT, 19, sp. of GEORGE St, d. of WILLIAM KNIGHT, TRAVELLER
Wits: WILLIAM MAXFIELD, PRISCILLA CLOUGH
There's an entry in the Leicester workhouse admissions I have
Entry no.22212
28-Feb 1893
Knight William Hawker St. Margaret's 70 Church of England
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Wow! Thanks Willsy,you are a wizard at finding bmd's and burials.
The marriage of George Barnacle and Eliza Ann fits in with my William and seems to point to Eliza Ann being the Ellen Ann I have listed for 1849/50. Priscilla was her elder sister who married William Maxwell. (Previously married to Cardy Clow and had two sons from that marriage.) Although the date I have for the marriage is 27.5.1878 they had their first child in 1870.
I don't have John Listed anywhere but there is a 5 year gap between Thomas' sons, Thomas 1834 and Joseph 1839 so he would fit nicely into that gap so I need to look at the idea that he might well be John James Knight.
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My pleasure Tuggybear
I nearly put down Priscilla's marriage, from my refs for you
St Margret's
Entry No.209, DEC 26, 1861, after Banns
CARDY CLOW, 20, bach. FWK, of GREEN St, s. of CARDY CLOW, FWK
PRISCILLA KNIGHT, 19, sp. of GREEN St, d. of WILLIAM KNIGHT, GENERAL DEALER
Wits: JOHN BOND, MARY ANN KNIGHT
This is looking interesting, John Knight c1828 being listed as widow
Marriages
1848 Q4 KNIGHT John James Leicester 15/217
The listing on freebmd is
Ellis Mary Ann Leicester 15 217
KNIGHT James
KNIGHT John James
KNIGHT John James
Lilley Joseph
MANGER Thomas
Mee Eliza Leicester
Smith Catherine
Thorpe Ann
Whitmore George
They are not Church listed marriages from my refs
So checked my non-conformist refs
Knight Emma
Born 05-Dec 1854
Bap. 23-Dec 1854 Leicester Leicester, Holy Cross Priory Roman Catholic
Parents William Mary Ann mmn Akins
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Just throwing this one in the mix
Mar. Job Jarman and Mary Knight 1818
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ8Q-XQN
1841 Church Gate Job and Mary plus a John Knight c 1832
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQYG-2XH
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This certainly looks interesting, thanks Willsy.
As far as I can tell William Knight and Mary Ann (Akins/Akiens) had the following children.
Priscilla 1843
William 1846
Roseanna 1849
Ellen/Ann/Eliza Ann 1850
Susannah 1852
Samuel 1854
Emma 1854 baptised 23.12.1854 RC
Thomas Edward 1857
Mary Ann 1859
Catherine 1864
James 1867
I have found no baptism dates for any of them but you have traced Emma to a Roman Catholic baptism. This would be in keeping with a gipsy faith so maybe all the others were baptised into the Catholic faith too. Goodness knows how the family became Church of England.
Thomas Knight and Catherine (Hemsley) had the following children
Ann chr 17.10.1820
William chr 23.8.1822
Eliza chr 21.10.1825 : bur 12.9.1826
Louisa chr 24.10.1827
John chr 24.10.1827
Elizabeth b 1832
Thomas b 1838
Joseph b 1839
All the children I have christening dates for were christened at St Margaret's Parish Church, Leicester in the Church of England faith. This is in keeping with my granddad's faith such as he had. Certainly his children and we grandkids were brought up to believe we were C of E. but granddad always maintained his roots were Irish Gipsy.
I'm not sure where this leaves John James fitting into the family but it looks very much as though he fits in somewhere.
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From my refs, baptisms for William's children
St Margaret
KNIGHT PRISCILLA WILLIAM & MARY ANN
1843 15-Feb Occ Labourer....Goddard Place
KNIGHT WILLIAM WILLIAM & MARY ANN
1846 18-Mar Occ Labourer....Goddard Place
KNIGHT ROSANNA WILLIAM & MARY ANN
1848 23-Jul Occ Labourer....Royal East Street
KNIGHT SUSANNA WILLIAM & MARY ANN
1852 27-Oct Occ Labourer....Wheat Street
KNIGHT THOMAS EDMUND WILLIAM & MARY ANN
1857 11-Jan Occ Labourer....Wheat Street
KNIGHT MARY ANN WILLIAM & MARY ANN
1858 26-Dec Occ General Dealer....Wheat Street
KNIGHT, ELIZA ANN AKINS
1850 J Quarter in LEICESTER Volume 15 Page 130
Not sure St Margaret's
KNIGHT ELIZA ANN WILLIAM & MARY ANN
1850 28-Jul Occ Bricklayer....Little George Street
Catherine and James are baptised the same day at St Matthews 30th Nov. 1870
Palmerstone Street, William as labourer
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There's a case in the paper
THE POISONING CASE.
The Leicester Chronicle: or, Commercial and Agricultural Advertiser (Leicester, England), Saturday, December 06, 1856
involving a Samuel Wedge
Eliza gives evidence as she has been stepping out with him and the she lives with her mother Catherine in Benford Street. She says she has a father but he is not in the town.
Eliza later marries Samuel
St Margaret
Entry No.260, APR 27, 1857, after Banns
SAMUEL WEDGE, 21, bach. BRICK MAKER, of CARLEY St, s. of SAMUEL WEDGE, FWK
ELIZA KNIGHT, 22, sp. of CARLEY St, d. of THOMAS KNIGHT, WOOL COMBER
Wits: JOHN KNIGHT, ELIZA KNIGHT
Was thinking the witnesses could be John and Eliza was Watts
Baptism St Margaret's
KNIGHT ELIZA THOMAS & CATHERINE 1834 30-May Occ Woolcomber....Wheat Street
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Then it says William Loundes lodges with Catherine, well this has come back to bite me as I wasn't sure when I found it....( in the article Ann Fowkes and Joseph Knight also )
1851
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGFV-5QH
Piccadilly Street
William Lownds Head Married Male 31 1820 Labourer Staffordshire,
Caroline Knight Lodger Married Female 47 1804 Seamer
Joseph Knight Son - Male 12 1839 Roap Yard
1861 Benford Street
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7T2-RPN
Caroline Knight Head F 60
Judah Smith Nursechild M 0
William Lounds Boarder M 41
1871 Benford Street
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFTJ-YPD
Ann Fowkes Head F 72
William Loundes Boarder M 51
Caroline Knight Boarder F 70
William Smith Boarder M 11
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Many thanks Willsy, the article about the poisoning case is very interesting. I thought that Thomas and Catherine must be living separately but couldn't find Catherine after 1841 so it looks like she began calling herself Caroline. :)
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This one, a report on the evidence
Leicestershire Mercury 29 November 1856
Lists her as Caroline
Eliza says.....my mother, aunt and brother and a young man who lives with us, were in the house at the time....
Was looking at Ann Fowkes last night but will have another look, there is a Thomas Fowkes witness at Catherine's marriage
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1841 Thomas and Ann
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQYG-ZKJ
1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGF3-M3C
Thomas Fowkes Head M 55 St Marys
Ann Fowkes Wife F 51 St Marys
Thomas Knight Nephew M 19 St Margts
1861 Next door to Catherine
Marriage
Leicester, St. Mary 25-Dec 1818 Banns
Thomas Fowkes OTP
Ann Hamsley OTP
James Fowkes and Catherine Hamsley witnesses
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Thought you might have these but just in case
St Margaret
HAMSLEY ANN WILLIAM & CLARISSA 1798 08-Dec
HAMSLEY CATHERINE WILLIAM & CLARISSA 1801 01-Oct
HAMSLEY JAMES WILLIAM & CLARISSA 1795 07-Jul
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Did find a stray bap. at St George
KNIGHT THOMAS EDWARD 1831 THOMAS & CATHARINE 09-Feb
Wheat Street, Woolcomber
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So it looks like Ann was Catherine's sister and either married a Fowkes then married Thomas Fowkes or changed her name to Fowkes before she married Thomas. I haven't started on the females of the grandfather Knights yet so didn't have those dates so thanks for letting me have them Willsy.
Does the article mention who was poisoned or why?
I have Thomas and Catherine's children as
Leic St Margaret:
Ann 1820
William 1822
Eliza 1825 buried 1826
Louisa and John James 24.10.1827
and possibly Eliza Ann bapt 30.5.1834
Leic St George
Thomas Edward 9.2.1831 (I have his details as Thomas B: 1838)
Elizabeth 1832
Joseph 1839
I wonder if Thomas Edward died before 1838 and there was a baby boy born in 1838 who was named for his dead sibling as, indeed, Eliza Ann may have been.
This research has certainly become a lot more interesting than I thought it would be thanks to your help Willsy.
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The family to be recorded as Hems/Hamsley in records and sign by their mark
Leicester, St. Mary 25-Dec 1818 Banns
Thomas Fowkes OTP
Ann Hamsley OTP
James Fowkes and Catherine Hamsley witnesses
The articles are about the poisoning of Eliza Bond
...Upon inquiry we found that early on Sunday morning the police apprehended Samuel Wedge, a brickyard labourer, upon a charge of wil- ful murder, by administering poison to the deceased, Eliza Bond...
the next part is a bit delicate
Her mother was found to be the one who bought the poison...for the purpose of causing abortion...
endeavouring to fasten a charge of murder against an innocent man...
There are lots of articles and they are all very long as they go through all the evidence.
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Thanks for that information Willsy, I will have to sort out a reader's ticket for the records office to read the articles but I now have the gist of the charges against my 4xG aunt's husband to be.
What a lot of information you have found for me, I am very grateful, thank you. :)
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I can access the newspapers via my main library website logging in with my library card number. Just wondered if you had the same option.
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I didn't realise it was possible to do that. I lost my library card years ago but could source another one. Do you have the website address please?
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It will be the library in your area, if it offers the service and through their website using your library card number as the 'way in'.