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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: buckhyne on Thursday 17 August 17 11:32 BST (UK)
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I have copies of the Pre-1855 Monumental Inscriptions of the cemeteries in and around Perth.
Any lookups welcome but remember they are pre 1855 (some headstones do have later dates).
1
.Aberdalgie Dupplin Kirkton o Mailer
2
.Abernethy
3
.Abernyte
4
.Aberuthven
5
.Arngask
6
.Auchterarder Kirkton
7
.Auchtergaven (Bankfoot) Logiebride
8
.Blackford Gleneagles Tullibardine
9
.Blairgowrie Churchyard & Cemetery
10...Caputh
11...Cargill
12...Dron Ecclesiamagirdle
13...Dunbarney Old Churchyard & New Churchyard
14...Dunblane Cathedral Episcopal Churchyard Kilbryde Churchyard
15...Dunkeld Cathedral
16...Dunning
17...Errol Ardgaith Mausoleum Megginch Inchmartin
18...Findo Gask
19...Forgandenny Pathstruie
20...Forteviot Muckersie
21 Fowlis Wester
22...Glendevon
23...Greyfriars (Perth)
24...Kilspindie Rait
25...Kinfauns
26...Kinnoull (Perth)
27...Little Dunkeld Lagganallachy Murthly Chapel
28...Longforgan
29...Madderty
30...Methven
31...Moneydie Logiealmond
32...Muckhart
33...Muthill Ardoch Braco Strageath Innerpeffray
34...Redgorton Luncarty Pitcairn
35...Rhynd
36...Scone Old Churchyard New Churchyard New Cemetery
37...St. Madoes
38...Tibbermore
39...Trinity Gask Kinkell
40...Wellshill (Perth)
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I have copies of the Pre-1855 Monumental Inscriptions of the cemeteries in and around Perth.
Any lookups welcome but remember they are pre 1855 (some headstones do have later dates).
1
.Aberdalgie Dupplin Kirkton o Mailer
2
.Abernethy
3
.Abernyte
4
.Aberuthven
5
.Arngask
6
.Auchterarder Kirkton
7
.Auchtergaven (Bankfoot) Logiebride
8
.Blackford Gleneagles Tullibardine
9
.Blairgowrie Churchyard & Cemetery
10...Caputh
11...Cargill
12...Dron Ecclesiamagirdle
13...Dunbarney Old Churchyard & New Churchyard
14...Dunblane Cathedral Episcopal Churchyard Kilbryde Churchyard
15...Dunkeld Cathedral
16...Dunning
17...Errol Ardgaith Mausoleum Megginch Inchmartin
18...Findo Gask
19...Forgandenny Pathstruie
20...Forteviot Muckersie
21 Fowlis Wester
22...Glendevon
23...Greyfriars (Perth)
24...Kilspindie Rait
25...Kinfauns
26...Kinnoull (Perth)
27...Little Dunkeld Lagganallachy Murthly Chapel
28...Longforgan
29...Madderty
30...Methven
31...Moneydie Logiealmond
32...Muckhart
33...Muthill Ardoch Braco Strageath Innerpeffray
34...Redgorton Luncarty Pitcairn
35...Rhynd
36...Scone Old Churchyard New Churchyard New Cemetery
37...St. Madoes
38...Tibbermore
39...Trinity Gask Kinkell
40...Wellshill (Perth)
Could I trouble you for 3? (if they exist)
David Sinclair 1848 Little Dunkeld
John Sinclair 1837 Little Dunkeld
Malcolm McGregor or sometimes spelt McGRIGOR 1851 Greyfriars
Cheers
TJ
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Hello Buckhyne,
could i please have -
Mary PATULLO/PITILLOW 1849 - Kinnoull
and the following at St.Madoes -
George PATULLO 1842, Mary PATULLO [nee HALL] 1836, Eliza[beth] PATULLO 1794, Emily PATULLO 1794, Archibald Ivor PATULLO 1848, Elizabeth PATILLO/PITULLO 1794.
with thanks
JACK GEE
ps - do you know a wee scottish lad by the name of Willie Lawry?
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Hi Jack
My ancestor John Cameron a customs officer or tide waiter died in Perth around 1813 aged 56. I saw this on local authority website. Just wondered if there is a stone?
His wife Ann - sorry don't know maiden name maybe buried with him. Grateful for any information you can find. Thanks
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Could I trouble you for 3? (if they exist)
David Sinclair 1848 Little Dunkeld
John Sinclair 1837 Little Dunkeld
Malcolm McGregor or sometimes spelt McGRIGOR 1851 Greyfriars
Cheers
TJ
Greyfriars
Block B: 180: Malcolm McGregor 11.1.1851, 72, by wife Janet Sinclair
Little Dunkeld
There were only two MIs for the Sinclair name.
8: John Campbell, farmer Fanduie, 10.5.1842, 84, wife Grace Sinclair 17.1.1854, 84, son Alex surgeon HM 50 regt. died Hong Kong 18.6.1853, -6
9: David McDuff Sinclair of Little Fanduie, Strathbraan, 25.6.1748, 74, w Cath McDuff 20.9.186-, s Donald McDuff S, d Graaf Reinet, South Africa, 7.11.1873, 59, da Chr, 5.8.1893, 74, s Alex 1828 1900; capt. John S. 18.3.1837, 69
No 9 shows David McDuff Sinclair dying in 1748 but his wife dies in the 1860s.
Surely a typo as 1848 makes more sense.
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Hello Buckhyne,
could i please have -
Mary PATULLO/PITILLOW 1849 - Kinnoull
and the following at St.Madoes -
George PATULLO 1842, Mary PATULLO [nee HALL] 1836, Eliza[beth] PATULLO 1794, Emily PATULLO 1794, Archibald Ivor PATULLO 1848, Elizabeth PATILLO/PITULLO 1794.
with thanks
JACK GEE
ps - do you know a wee scottish lad by the name of Willie Lawry?
No Patullo/Pitillo in the Monumental Inscriptions for Kinfauns.
St. Madoes
23: George Patullo farmer Neither Mains 1.3.1842, 82, wife Mary Hall 5.1.1836, 72 (sister Ann Hall .9.1834, 62)
by son George (son George Hall died Perth 28.8.1855, 16 son Archibald Ivor died Edinburgh 26.1.1846) niece Emily P .1.1838, 16
49: (Flat Stone): Chas Pattillo, farmer Haughhead 28.5.1818, 71, by wife Kath Forgan
50: 1794: Chas Pitillo tenant Pitcoag, wife Anne Blair, da Eliz .12.1794, 17: Chas P. farmer Hunter (hall) 28.6.18-- (broken)
ps - do you know a wee scottish lad by the name of Willie LAWRY?
Naw, I dinnae ken onybody wi' that name.
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Hi Jack
My ancestor John Cameron a customs officer or tide waiter died in Perth around 1813 aged 56. I saw this on local authority website. Just wondered if there is a stone?
His wife Ann - sorry don't know maiden name maybe buried with him. Grateful for any information you can find. Thanks
I think this is the John Cameron you are looking for.
Forename John
Surname CAMERON
Occupation Customhouse officer
Date Died 15 April 1813
Age 56y
Cause of Death: Stich [stitch] and fever
Cemetery Greyfriars
Unfortunately there is no Monumental Inscription for this John Cameron.
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thank you Jack that is him.
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Could I trouble you for 3? (if they exist)
David Sinclair 1848 Little Dunkeld
John Sinclair 1837 Little Dunkeld
Malcolm McGregor or sometimes spelt McGRIGOR 1851 Greyfriars
Cheers
TJ
Greyfriars
Block B: 180: Malcolm McGregor 11.1.1851, 72, by wife Janet Sinclair
Little Dunkeld
There were only two MIs for the Sinclair name.
8: John Campbell, farmer Fanduie, 10.5.1842, 84, wife Grace Sinclair 17.1.1854, 84, son Alex surgeon HM 50 regt. died Hong Kong 18.6.1853, -6
9: David McDuff Sinclair of Little Fanduie, Strathbraan, 25.6.1748, 74, w Cath McDuff 20.9.186-, s Donald McDuff S, d Graaf Reinet, South Africa, 7.11.1873, 59, da Chr, 5.8.1893, 74, s Alex 1828 1900; capt. John S. 18.3.1837, 69
No 9 shows David McDuff Sinclair dying in 1748 but his wife dies in the 1860s.
Surely a typo as 1848 makes more sense.
Thanks mate for all your help. They are the ones.
David's date must be a typo because he bobs up in the 1841 census.
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Thanks Buckhyne,
much appreciated.
Cheers
Jack
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I am searching for William Anderson who died about 1846.
I believe he was living in Doune when he died.
Others on this site have advised there is no record of his burial in Doune.
I am interested in finding out if there is a William Anderson at Blackford or Kilbryde Cemeteries.
Actually any Anderson's at these cemeteries might be helpful.
Thanks,
Dave
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I am searching for William Anderson who died about 1846.
I believe he was living in Doune when he died.
Others on this site have advised there is no record of his burial in Doune.
I am interested in finding out if there is a William Anderson at Blackford or Kilbryde Cemeteries.
Actually any Anderson's at these cemeteries might be helpful.
Thanks,
Dave
Blackford:
2: 1820: by John Anderson in L(oanhead)
6. 1823: James Anderson 17.7.1822 62, wife Janet Forbes 1881, 97, son John 1.3.1866 58, (wife Margaret Eadie 10.11.1910 80, son John 7.3.1895 35), John Anderson .10.1942 53
13. 1818: by James Anderson tenant Berdrel to relations who have taken up their dwelling in this little spot with 16 steps encompassed thereabout, grandfather James Anderson lived & died in Berdrel (wife Elizabeth Maltman) father James .5.181(3) 87, mother Margaret Christie .8.1780 7(0), brother John .5.1811 35 (see 19)
14. 1821: by James Anderson
.flaked
.eulogy
19. 1799: James Anderson; Elizabeth Maltman: James Anderson; Margaret Christie: Berdrel (see 13)
28. James Anderson mason here born Under Bardrel 17.8.1772 died Blackford 26.5.1850 78, wife Janet Gray died Blackford 28.7.1862 77, brother Peter born 10.10.1782 died Blackford 10.10.1835, Walter McMillan 18.5.1931 82, wife Janet Gray Thomson 4.4.1904 49, daughter Janet Gray 11.9.1930 45
29. 1792: John Anderson at Gleneagles, wife Ann Adie, son John 16.1.1791 22, son George 28.11.1791 16, William Anderson 17.6.1921 62
52. James Anderson farmer Quoigs 11.5.1834 67, son of John Anderson .9.1808 75 and Agnes Wilson .5.1807 70, by son John; Isabella Sharp or Anderson died Quoigs 22.11.1866, son John 13.3.1850, Robert Monteath in the Biggs .9.1872
72. 1802: John Gardner; Jean Anderson
Dunblane Cathedral
44. This is a large inscription to the Forrester family and there is a reference to Elizabeth Forrester wife of James Anderson manufacturer Tillicoultry 27.2.1871 66
168. This appears to be an obelisk to the McCowan family with a reference to James Anderson wife Jane McCowan 27.12.1836 17.3.1867
Dunblane Kylbride
81. by John & William Anderson, mother Ann Wright 29.5.1834, sister Helen 21.3.1821
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Hi Buckhyne,
I'm looking for a John Robertson husband to a Jean Thomson death of John post 1797 in Blairgowrie (he's on the horse tax rolls for that year). Farmer at Hillbarne(s).
Thanks
Jen
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Thanks buckhyne:
Nothing jumps out as pertaining to the "lost" William.
However, there are several names shown that connect to my relatives - I just do not know how.
Thanks for sending info.
Dave
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Hi Buckhyne,
I'm looking for a John Robertson husband to a Jean Thomson death of John post 1797 in Blairgowrie (he's on the horse tax rolls for that year). Farmer at Hillbarne(s).
Thanks
Jen
Hi Jen,
There are 16 inscriptions for Robertson in Blairgowrie Churchyard and two in Blairgowrie cemetery.
I'm afraid that none of them appear to have anything to do with John Robertson, farmer.
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Thanks buckhyne:
Nothing jumps out as pertaining to the "lost" William.
However, there are several names shown that connect to my relatives - I just do not know how.
Thanks for sending info.
Dave
nae bother
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Any chance of providing all burials at Kilbryde Cemetery?
I have pictures of John Stewart and Ann Innes stone grave marker.
I assumed this was the only grave stone.
Maybe the William you mentioned earlier is my connection, except if correct then there would be Janet (Stewart) Anderson at this cemetery.
Dave
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Thanks for looking Buckhyne...putting John back in the box once again ;)
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Any chance of providing all burials at Kilbryde Cemetery?
I have pictures of John Stewart and Ann Innes stone grave marker.
I assumed this was the only grave stone.
Maybe the William you mentioned earlier is my connection, except if correct then there would be Janet (Stewart) Anderson at this cemetery.
Dave
I'm unsure of what you mean?
Kilbryde
39. John Stewart & Ann Innes in Glastry, son Alex minister AM 13.6.1847 29 (see 41)
41. John Stewart in Glastry 4.11.1858 77, wife Ann Innes 27.3.1860 80, by daughters Janet, Margaret & Ann (see 39)
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William Anderson is my 2nd great grandfather.
All I know is that he was not alive when his son William was born 1846.
I have not found any record of his death.
I also only have a rough idea when he was born.
His wife is Janet Stewart, daughter of John Stewart and Ann Innes, the persons shown in your last post.
I thought maybe William and Janet are buried near John Stewart and Ann Innes.
My interest in Blackford is because I found a record for Janet Anderson buried there.
According to census records, Janet was alive in 1891 and living in Doune.
If William was from Blackford, maybe William and Janet are buried there.
Dave
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Hi from New Zealand
Please would you look up John Scott for me in the Little Dunkeld cemetery records. He lived at Inver (I think nearest to the Lagganallachy burial ground). He was deceased at the time of his daughter's marriage on 14 November 1823.
Thank you, June
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Hi June,
This is the only inscription in the book Little Dunkeld/Lagganallachy/Murthly for the Scott name.
Little Dunkeld: Lagganallachy
9: Donald Scott elder Borlich 1814 82, son James 1837 68, (wife Ann Stewart 1848 84), children Janet 1805 6, Alex 63, solicitor Dunblane 1862, Thomas at Melloine 1852 51, Daniel MD inspector general of hospitals & honorary physician to her majesty b .12.1792 d Edinburgh 3.11.1875, Charles MD 9.7.1877, son John farmer Grantully 1852 58, (daughter Christine 1852 19)
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Hi June,
This is the only inscription in the book Little Dunkeld/Lagganallachy/Murthly for the Scott name.
Little Dunkeld: Lagganallachy
9: Donald Scott elder Borlich 1814 82, son James 1837 68, (wife Ann Stewart 1848 84), children Janet 1805 6, Alex 63, solicitor Dunblane 1862, Thomas at Melloine 1852 51, Daniel MD inspector general of hospitals & honorary physician to her majesty b .12.1792 d Edinburgh 3.11.1875, Charles MD 9.7.1877, son John farmer Grantully 1852 58, (daughter Christine 1852 19)
Thank you very much. Most appreciated. June
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Could you possibly give me the details of any Barclays at Arngask? Particularly looking for David Barclay sometime around 1800 but any others would be of interest.
Thank you.
Gill
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Sorry Gill, there are no Barclays in the pre-1855 Arngask book.
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Thanks for looking.
Gill
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Hi buckhyne,
Could I trouble you for some lookups of headstones at Greyfriars in Perth?
Names are:
Ann Sharp (Ref PE1/20/2) Died 23 Sept 1839
Robert Sharp (Ref PE1/20/2) Died 23 Sept 1841
William Howie (Ref PE1/20/3C) Died 13 Nov 1848
Niell McLaren (Ref PE1/20/1) Died 29 Oct 1803
James Sharp (Ref PE1/20/1) Died 27 Jan 1814
Thanks so much.
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In Greyfriars Burying Ground pre-1855 MI's there are 14 references to the name Sharp and 18 to the name McLaren but there are no references to Howie.
The only inscription relevant to McLaren & Sharp is the following.
Block D: 114: (between two yews) Neil McLaren maltman here 30.10.1802, 45, wife Eliz Patterson 12.7.1812, 58, dau Ann 24.9.1839, 44, (wife of Robert Sharp 25.9.1841, 53), dau Euphemia 22.5.1855, 62, dau Margaret 20.1.1892, 97, (widow of David Turnbull 22.2.1855, 61)
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Thanks so much! Looking forward to visiting Greyfriars in September of this year.
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Thanks so much! Looking forward to visiting Greyfriars in September of this year.
Have you seen the sticky Perth Cemeteries
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776199.0
This will give you an idea of what the burying ground looks like.
Also there is no guarantee that the stone I quoted will still be there or still legible.
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Hello all. New to this site. Researching my GGGG GF Robert Eadie (1761 - 1837), his dad (Andrew b 1739) and his GF (Robert b 1713). From Parish of Kilmadock, Blackhill and Buchany Farm, Perthshire. Going for a visit in 2 weeks and would love to see the area and perhaps find my ancestors resting place. Any help or suggestions on places to explore the family roots would be most welcome.
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I think you are posting in the wrong thread.
This thread is about cemeteries in named areas.
I haven't a clue regarding Kilmadock, Blackhill & Buchany Farm.
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HI
Taken from MI Book Dunblane and Kilbryde Which is in the Lower Strathearn book.
Imo Isabel SHARP d 31.7.1816 50, h Robt EADIE tent Blackhill of Cambuswallace (in 1816) d 2.3.1837 75, by s James mert London. (west side) Visited by Andw EADIE, Canada on 8.4.1854
details for Kilbryde church yard
In an isolated valley northwest of Dunblane. When reviewed by Alison Mitchell in 2001 it was overgrown with nettles,National Grid reference: NN 755 028 off a cul de sac to Grainston. Parking for one car. if you enter the gate stand with your back to the church door stone number 68 is towards the rear of the church yard roughly in line with the left hand door post as you face away from the church.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hello Buckhyne,
Can you see if there are any Watson or Taylor family in Luncarty and/or Redgorton, please?
William Watson married Henrietta (Henny) Taylor (dau of William Taylor) and they had these children all baptised at Luncarty:-
Jean 1794
William 1800
Grizel 1802
Thomas 1804
John 1807
Henrietta 1809
William 1811
Hannah 1814
Betty 1817
Thank you,
Marlene
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Taylor = two in Redgorton, two in Luncarty and two in Pitcairn
Watson = None in Redgorton, three in Luncarty and one in Pitcairn
Redgorton: Taylor
4: by James McGregor in Luncarty, wife Margaret Taylor 29.11.1885, 63
5: 1862: by Charles Taylor senior Luncarty 24.1.1879, 90, mother Margaret Keir, 28.7.1819, 53, son James 28.4.1836, 22, mother in law Isabella Ower 10.1.1837, 77, wife Ann T. 24.11.1861, 71
Luncarty: Taylor
12: 1849: Charles Taylor
27: Obelisk: James Nicoll 11.9.1880, 71, wife Mary Taylor 6.12.1893, 82, son James 4.9.1885, 46, children Isabella 11, Maggie 6, John 6, grandchildren Mary A. Cameron 24, Mary 24.11.1925, 84, John died New Zealand 22.2.1912
Luncarty: Watson
23: (Obelisk: marble inset) John Watson died New Scone 8.6.1861, 68
24: 1832: by William & John Watson here, parents John W. and Helen Easton & numerous relations
25: Thomas Easton 16.1.1840, (75), wife Jean Watson .11.18(45), (71)
Pitcairn: Taylor
18: by Thomas Taylor, father Charles 13.3.1808, 75, two sisters Cath & Mgt.
23: (Flat Stone) 1800: by Mary Taylor in Bridgetown here, mother Jean
.. 19.11.1778, 6(4), widow of James T. 12.12.1
Pitcairn: Watson
7: by John
.. to (bro?) Alex Ro
.. . .11.1813, 92, mother Margaret Watson, 11.1.1819, 85
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Thank you buckhyne. Nothing immediately jumps out as 'mine' but I need to research more thoroughly to be sure.
(Thomas Watson is my direct ancestor. He married in Aberdeen, later lived in Edinburgh, was an engineer but died in the Tibbermore Poorhouse in 1880)
Thanks again for your help,
Marlene
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Hi BruceL:
Your reference to MI Book Dunblane & Kilbryde interests me.
I have a photo of a grave marker in Kilbryde Cemetery for John Stewart and Anne Innes, erected by their three daughters Janet, Margaret and Ann. These are my ancestors.
I am looking for death records for all three daughters, as well as their husbands, and would like to determine if they and their husbands are in this cemetery.
Janet Stewart married William Anderson; Margaret Stewart married Andrew Laurie; and Ann Stewart married James Gow.
Any Anderson's or Stewart's at this cemetery or at Dunblane Cemetery would be of interest to me.
Your assistance is appreciated.
Dave
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Hi Marlene
Perth and Kinross council archives hold the records of Perth poor house from 1859 to 1975.
The main building "Roslyn House" has now been converted into flats.
Your Manchester would probably have been hurried in wellshill cemetery which is about 300 meters along Riggs road.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thanks Bruce :)
Do you think the archives might have more information on Thomas than what was on the death registration?
Good to know where he was probably buried too.
Cheers, Marlene 🙂
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Hi Marlene
I have never seen what the archives hold on poor house inmates so I couldn't tell you may be worth e-mailing the archives at the A K Bell library and asking them.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thanks Bruce, I'll do some further digging on my Watson family :)
Marlene
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Hi BruceL and Buckhyne:
I finally found the death record for my Janet Anderson, born Janet Stewart, 23 March 1814 at Dunblane; died 19 January 1900 at Newington, Edinburgh.
Next task is to find where she is buried.
I still believe her final resting place will be in or near Doune because she lived in Doune most of her life and her husband William Anderson died when he was living in Doune in 1845-46.
Can you provide assistance on this task?
Thanks,
Dave
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If she died 50+ years after her husband and she is living in Edinburgh then my guess is that she is buried there.
Does her death certificate give any clues?
Who was the informant?
Also my help is with pre-1855 deaths in certain named cemeteries but this is 50 years later.
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Hi Buckhyne
I realize you are more pre-1855 and I appreciate the information you forwarded previously.
Death certificate states Janet was ill for two months with heart problems.
Informant was her son-in-law and she was living at his residence in Edinburgh, with her daughter.
I am hoping Janet and William are buried together, with a grave marker so I can obtain basic information for William.
Thanks for your reply.
Dave
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Hi Dave
Doune is now part of Stirlingshire if you contact Stirling archives perhaps they may be able to give you the information you are looking for.
Good Luck
Yours Aye
BruceL
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I've been trying the Edinburgh newspapers for her death in January, 1900 but having no luck.
I still think she would be buried in Edinburgh as she has family there.
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I have copies of the Pre-1855 Monumental Inscriptions of the cemeteries in and around Perth.
Any lookups welcome but remember they are pre 1855 (some headstones do have later dates).
1….Aberdalgie – Dupplin – Kirkton o’ Mailer
2….Abernethy
3….Abernyte
4….Aberuthven
5….Arngask
6….Auchterarder – Kirkton
7….Auchtergaven (Bankfoot) – Logiebride
Hello Buckhyne, could you please have a look in your pre-1855 MIs at Auchtergaven for any Scott, Dow, Garvie/Garvey burials?
Any female Garvey/Gavies married to a male Dow?
Any children of William Scott and Ann Dow?
Thankyou WhiteOut7
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There are 8 Dow, 6 Garvie and 6 Scott in the MIs for Auchtergaven but none of them connect with each other.
There are no kids of William Scott & Ann Dow and no female Garvie married to a Dow.
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Hi All
Not at home at present so don't have access to books, there are from memory Scott,s and Dow,s in Kinclaven
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thankyou Buckhyne and Bleckie (BruceL)
I will have a look about Kinclaven might be a clue.
This William Scott and Ann Dow marriage seems to have disappeared into the mists
Odd the one Daughter Helen Dow appears baptised in Auctergaven on Familysearch
And the other child is a William who appears out in New Zealand, parents in death cert
Seems to be driving my friend crazy not finding anything
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hi there, could I possible trouble you to provide details on all inscriptions within the Perth Greyfriars Burial Ground with the surname Sharp? Also McLaren.
Thanks so much.
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Hi nsharp, there are 23 maclaren/mclaren and 14 sharp MIs in Greyfriars.
Give me a clue as to who you are looking for.
Spouses names would help
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Hopefully I`m not too late for this offer. Do you have any info for the Miller/Millar family from Abernethy? Furthest back I have got is for a Michael Millar. Many thanks, Graham.
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there is only one MI for that name in Abernethy.
13: Peter Mill 10.5.1842, 73, wife Isabella Millar 16.8.1865, 83
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Many thanks buckhyne.
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Hello, is the offer to do look-ups still available?
I am trying to find detail of Helen Adam, buried at Longforgan in 1826. I have the detail from the Parish Register but was hoping there may be an MI with more information.
Many thanks
Catherine
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There are only these two for Longforgan.
One is an Adam and the other is an Adams.
Longforgan
80: 1860: George Clark 9.11.1832 77: wife Elspit Stewart 25.10.1819 67, by son John (wife Janet Adam 30.6.1845, 49, son William 26.8.1854, 2 months) also by son William
99: 1850: William Constable 1809, wife Jean Adams 1831
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Thanks Buckhyne
. not my lot, sadly ... :-\
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Hi Bruce and Buckhyne,
Firstly, thank you Bruce for previous information on Auchtergaven and Logiebride which finally came together this week after many years.
Which brings us to:
Belston, or Bellstown or variant, Methven detached. All of the hatching and dispatching seems to have been done at Auchtergaven, except for these two.
John Paton (b 1777) and his wife Mary (probably Robertson) (b1777)
I have no access yet to the 1861 census images, but she is on the 1841 at Belston with him, and he is with a son at Belston in 1851 - no image, so I can't tell if he is a widower.
I cannot find them in Auchtergaven or Logiebride, and don't know where else to look for Methven detached burials.
Can either of you help?
Thanks in advance!
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I have no access yet to the 1861 census images, but she is on the 1841 at Belston with him, and he is with a son at Belston in 1851 - no image, so I can't tell if he is a widower.
You have exactly the same access as everyone else - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk is the only place you can see all the census images online.
I have access to a commercial web site with a transcription that shows that in 1851 he was a widower, born Methven, visiting the household of his son, daughter-in-law and three granddaughters. You could check that image at Scotland's People for less than the cost of a cup of coffee.
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I recently found a reference from a reliable source, no longer alive, that some of my Stewart/Anderson ancestors are buried in Kilbryde Cemetery.
Janet "Stewart" Anderson, d. 1900 at Newington, Edinburgh (lived in Doune most of her life)
Her parents - John Stewart and Ann Innes are buried in this cemetery.
Janet's Daughters:
Janet "Anderson" Gray, d. 1920 At Killn, Perthshire
Ann "Anderson" McLaren, d. 1923 at Newington, Edinburgh
The reference is M.I.'s SO Perth p.193 #41
Does any one have access to this M.I. reference?
Thanks to Buckhyne and Bruce for previously trying to solve the where abouts of Janet Anderson and husband William Anderson.
Maybe the above reference will help.
Dave
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I have no access yet to the 1861 census images, but she is on the 1841 at Belston with him, and he is with a son at Belston in 1851 - no image, so I can't tell if he is a widower.
You have exactly the same access as everyone else - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk is the only place you can see all the census images online.
I have access to a commercial web site with a transcription that shows that in 1851 he was a widower, born Methven, visiting the household of his son, daughter-in-law and three granddaughters. You could check that image at Scotland's People for less than the cost of a cup of coffee.
Hi Forfarian.
Thanks for your kind reply. I have not yet joined Scotland's People, as the index searches I have tried so far have been largely unsuccessful (too many returns or no returns when I know there should be one), leading me to believe that they have similar transcription errors to those I find on Ancestry. The instructions on the Scotland's People website, as I understood them, were that I would find the image I wanted by doing an index search and then pay for each image viewed. Frequently, index searches result in far too many returns - I do not want to pay to view 39 images to find the one right one. In the event that I did not find the image from an index search, I would be left browsing census images for the entire parish at 6 credits per image - a costly sum, or viewing the 39 images at 25 p per view.
It sounds, from your explanation, that I may have misunderstood the instructions. Is there a way to narrow the results so I am only actually paying to see likely candidates?
By the way, which site do you belong to that had the information that he was a widower? I am on ancestry and that information was not transcribed by them.
Also, you say that Scotland's People is the only place to see the census images online. Do the LDS Family History Centres not have them as well? I ask because I am in the process of mounting an expedition to my nearest LDS Centre.
Thanks for your input!
Holly
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Thanks for your kind reply. I have not yet joined Scotland's People, as the index searches I have tried so far have been largely unsuccessful (too many returns or no returns when I know there should be one), leading me to believe that they have similar transcription errors to those I find on Ancestry. Frequently, index searches result in far too many returns - I do not want to pay to view 39 images to find the one right one. In the event that I did not find the image from an index search, I would be left browsing census images for the entire parish at 6 credits per image - a costly sum, or viewing the 39 images at 25 p per view.
Yes, for some common names it can be annoying to get too many results. But the parish registers are fully indexed with the names of the child and both parents (assuming that the information is on the original record of course).
As for transcription errors, they don't exist because SP has no transcriptions (apart from the one of the 1881 done by the LDS, which does contain errors, some of them major), only originals.
There are indexing errors, but they are far fewer than on, for instance, Ancestry, and when any error is brought to their attention they correct it very quickly.
The instructions on the Scotland's People website, as I understood them, were that I would find the image I wanted by doing an index search and then pay for each image viewed.
Yes, that's right.
It sounds, from your explanation, that I may have misunderstood the instructions. Is there a way to narrow the results so I am only actually paying to see likely candidates?
There are ways of seeing the whole of a parish register without paying separately for each page. In particular, the LDS filmed and indexed most of them, and you can view the microfilms in local libraries (free) and family history centres (if you are a member) in Scotland. You can also, or you used to be able to, arrange for your local LDS Family History Library to rent the films you want to see, and then view them there.
You could also try FreeREG https://www.freereg.org.uk/, though it is a long way from having covered all parishes. Using this you might be able narrow down which originals you actually want to see.
(The best way, of course, is to book a day or three in the Scotland's People Centre in Edinburgh, but I assume that you are not in Scotland so that may not be the simplest answer for you.)
By the way, which site do you belong to that had the information that he was a widower?
FindMyPast. If it had been my own family I would have checked the original on SP just to be sure.
I am on ancestry and that information was not transcribed by them.
That doesn't surprise me in the least. Not that FindMyPast is 100% reliable either - I have devoted quite a bit of effort recently to submitting corrections to them. And more or less all the available online transcriptions introduce information which is not on the originals; in particular they all (mis)calculate the year of birth by subtracting the claimed age from the census year. The year of birth is never on an original UK census, or at least not on the ones available for research so far.
Also, you say that Scotland's People is the only place to see the census images online. Do the LDS Family History Centres not have them as well? I ask because I am in the process of mounting an expedition to my nearest LDS Centre.
No. LDS Family History Libraries do not have images of the Scottish census or of Scottish BMDs online, other than via Scotland's People of course. They have the census (1841-1901) on microfilm, and you can view the microfilms In an LDS FHL in the same way that you can view the parish registers on microfilm.
Incidentally I just re-ran the search for John Paton in the 1851 census in Methven in the SP index. I got three results without adding other details, for example his age or the name of someone else in the household, so it was easy enough to see which was the one you want.
Half a dozen clicks of the mouse sufficed to find him in the 1861 census in Perth.
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Well, Forfarian, a mixed day for me.
Armed with your information, I drove to my nearest FHL. We used to have one near where I live, but it closed, I think, due to lack of interest. SOME of the films and fiches were sent to the next nearest one, and some were just returned to Salt Lake. I could weep.
There were 2 computers available to access one's own account. They were both in use when I got there, and there was another fellow waiting. I went into the film and fiche room. Most drawers were unlabeled, and it was obvious that the room was a multi purpose room. Both rooms were small and had precious little table space. The people were lovely, but ... they were doing the best they could. The facility is open for 3 hours, once per week.
I never found the census films, they were labelled only by number, with no 'key', and the fiche reader had no magnification. The attitude was a common one these days - that computers make films and fiches redundant.
It was so disappointing - BUT, when I finally got onto a computer, I was able to view 1841, 1851 was dodgy. Anything later just refused to load. The census images all came from FindmyPast.
I was forearmed with your information, so I was able to get more done than I thought I would, although I never find 1851 Methven - only parishes beginning with "A" would load and Perth city.
So, given that Ancestry is probably never going to have the census images, I think the wisest thing is to just bite the bullet - get a membership to FindMyPast and set up an account with Scotland's People. Anything else will just be unrealistic and frustrating.
Although, a trip to Scotland would be most fruitful. ;D
Any suggestions on which level of FindMyPast membership I should get given that I have an ancestry membership already?
I appreciate the advice you have given me thus far.
Thanks for it!
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That's a very interesting account of your encounter with the FHL. And a bit dispiriting.
I don't subscribe to Ancestry because all my ancestors are Scottish and Ancestry holds relatively little original material about Scottish births, marriages, deaths and census.
I don't recall what grade of subscription I have to FindMyPast, but I chose the one that gives me access to the newspapers and periodicals. This subscription gives me access to transcriptions of the census from 1841 to 1901. These are handy for looking to see where people were, because they contain more information than the index at SP. However they are not very good transcriptions, so I need to plan to check every one against the original. Some of the information on the originals is not included, or is only included if you scroll down each original person's listing. Some of the alleged information is geographically plain wrong. Also they commit what (to me) is the cardinal sin, of introducing information which is not in the originals in the form of (mis)calculated dates of birth. Do not join FindMyPast in the expectation of seeing original images of the censuses of Scotland. They do have original images of the England and Wales census.
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Thanks again! I've been 'doing' genealogy for 30 years, got into ancestry about 20 years ago and they've been promising Scottish records since then. So, I have been essentially avoiding my Scottish line all this time - just what I could glean from the IGIs - and I quickly learned about 'user-submitted' data.
I don't know if I mentioned, but I used to volunteer as a transcriptionist for FreeBMD many years ago. THEY had standards. It didn't matter what you knew personally, if you could not read the information you transcribed it as unknown, or an either/or. None of the rubbish transcription errors that you see from PAID STAFF at ancestry.
Add to all this the fact that the group I am working on now came from the Barony of Tullybeagles, which was technically Methven (detached), but the churching was done in Auchtergaven. Then add on the non-standard spellings, combined with illiteracy. Well, it's a challenge.
Good for the old grey matter, I suppose.
Something you might find interesting... while I was researching my Irish line (Ulster Scots), my daughter moved to Europe and spent a few years in Ireland. I had been at solid brick walls and assumed that I had everything that had not been destroyed, so when I went over to visit, I didn't bring any material with me. Just for a lark, I used her computer and started repeating old Google searches that I knew from memory.- searches I was running every couple of months and getting nothing new. All of a sudden, just doing the search from inside Ireland, the returns were entirely different! I was getting hits upon hits ... and none of my files with me to tie it into, or confirm that it was really mine.
Fortunately, several kind souls on the Tyrone board were able to help me, although they must have thought I was quite batty, as I had huge holes in my info - because it was back in Canada! But with the little I was able to cobble together from memory, and the new search returns, the Rootschat family had several walls broken.
Needless to say, the next visit, I came prepared - usb sticks full of files. I borrowed a laptop and off to the records office in Belfast. I was there all day and it wasn't nearly enough for me.
So, my cunning plan is a grand tour... records offices - Ireland, England and Scotland.
Thank you again for all of your help!
BTW - to keep this on topic - any idea where burials would be done for Gibbiestoun, Balwherne, Meikle Obney (the Methven detached villages) if they weren't in the Bankfoot cemetery or Logiebride? I have the books from both and am still missing several burials. Thanks.
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Sorry, I don't know - even though my uncle's wife was from Obney. (Strictly, my father's cousin's wife, but we thought of them as our uncle and aunt.)
Yes, I did some transcribing for FreeBMD too - about 10,000 I think. As you say, very high standards.
Anne
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Hi Rupiezucki
I did a quick check on scotlandspeople for the surname "Paton" and got the following results:
Marriages Auchtergaven 52
Methven 9
All Perthshire 579
Deaths/Burrials Auchtergaven NONE.
Methven NONE
all Perthshire 1736-1854 84
This is only from the church of Scotland OPRs you have other churches with are now on Scotlandspeople. and only the spelling as above you have Patton and Panton spelling is a relatively new phenomenon names were usually phonetic.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Deaths/Burrials Auchtergaven NONE.
Methven NONE
all Perthshire 1736-1854 84
This is only from the church of Scotland OPRs you have other churches with are now on Scotlandspeople. and only the spelling as above you have Patton and Panton spelling is a relatively new phenomenon names were usually phonetic.
Yours Aye
BruceL
Thank, Bruce ...
Even given alternate spellings, there are still a LOT of people who don't seem to show up in cemeteries. I know that in parts of the US, family burial plots on the family property are more common than you would think - did Scots do this as well? Would it have been common? What about after battles? Would mass graves have been common?
If we can find Richard III in a car park ...
Enquiring minds want to know!
Cheers,
Rupie.
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I know that in parts of the US, family burial plots on the family property are more common than you would think - did Scots do this as well? Would it have been common?
No. Most Scots families did not own enough land to have their own private burial grounds. Pretty much everyone was buried in a kirkyard. Even some big landowning families, rather than have their own burial ground, would build an aisle or mausoleum in the kirkyard.
I have read that is estimated that only 10% of people had a gravestone, but I am not sure what period that refers to. The proportion surviving from say the 17th century must be far smaller than that.
The thing is that the kirk was interested in baptising and marrying people, but death was the start of the afterlife and not an event of earthly significance. So deaths were seldom recorded as such.
There are three types of record that may contain death information before 1855.
One is gravestones.
The second is burial records, if they were kept and if they have survived.
The third is mortcloth records. A mortcloth is a large cloth that was used to cover the coffin during the funeral service, and the relatives had to pay for the use of it, the money going into the parish's poor funds. The mortcloth fees are often recorded in the parish accounts or in the kirk session records, sometimes even including the name of the deceased. The surviving kirk session records have been digitised, but they are not (yet) available online, and have to be consulted at the National Records of Edinburgh or a small number of local archives around Scotland. Nor are they indexed so it can be a long job ploughing through them looking for one particular fact.
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The third is mortcloth records. A mortcloth is a large cloth that was used to cover the coffin during the funeral service, and the relatives had to pay for the use of it, the money going into the parish's poor funds. The mortcloth fees are often recorded in the parish accounts or in the kirk session records, sometimes even including the name of the deceased. The surviving kirk session records have been digitised, but they are not (yet) available online, and have to be consulted at the National Records of Edinburgh or a small number of local archives around Scotland. Nor are they indexed so it can be a long job ploughing through them looking for one particular fact.
Thanks, again!
Edinburgh it is, then. Ah, well.
;D
Cheers!
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I should also have mentioned a fourth source: that deaths are sometimes announced in newspapers.
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Hi June, thomas scott from little dunkeld was my great great great grandfather
cheers
charles price
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This is for Ross Stewart.
There are only two headstones for the Stuart name in Greyfriars cemetery according to the pre-1855 MIs.
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Hi, are you able to look up the following of my ancestors in Greyfriars please?
James Christie b 20.04.1813 d.31.05.1813
His brother George b. 21.08.1816, d, 25.02.1817
Their father James Christie b.1763?, d. 23.08.1847
Their mother was Ann Christie nee Rough but I haven't found her death as yet.
Many thanks.
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There's no index names for the bairns but there is this entry for the father.
Section D: 252: by James Christie, wife Isobel Reoch 13.11.1799, daughter Helen, son James 23.8.1847, 84
There is only one entry for Rough but it's no Ann.
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Thank you so much!
Is the Rough her father, George or his wife Margaret Rough, maiden name Clayton by any chance?
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Section D: 151: David Rough glover here 20.5.1780, 59, first wife Agnes Buist, 34, son Andrew, second wife Beatrix Stobie, (children Margaret, Laurence, James & Beatrix), (west side, glovers insignia)
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Thank you so much. Im now thinking he may be George's father as George was a Glover too.
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Have you looked at the Greyfriars Register?
James Christie and the two young sons are listed, and probably others.
Interesting to see that James was a gunsmith at one point and an auctioneer at another.
https://www.pkc.gov.uk/article/3887/Perth-burgh-burial-registers-1794-1855-
Throth
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Thank you, I've had a good look there but strangely can't find his wife, Ann Christie nee Rough who I know died before 1862.
Yes his occupation path is very interesting. Maybe they were linked somehow to James Christie who found Christie's the famous auctioneers!
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Topic continues at https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=832751.0
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If possible ... I am looking for John Craig, d. 1906 in Blairgowrie. Any help is most appreciated!
Lorraine
Canada
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Blairgowrie Cemetery
14 by John Craig 19.7.1906 85, wife Mary Carmichael 21.7.1880 52, children James ?.5.1852 1, William ?.1.1867 4, Isabella ?.4.1867 6 months
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Thank you!
This has given me more children than I knew about! I can't find James in the records but I will keep trying!
Cheers!
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Considering James was one year old when he died what records would you expect to find info on him?
None of the bairns would be on a census.
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Hoping for a birth notation in parish records for James.
Looked in Scotland's People but nothing there.
Lorraine
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From the IGI (Family Search)
John Craig: birth: 13 September 1855, Blairgowrie, Perthshire, Scotland
father: John Craig
mother: Mary Carmichael
James Craig: birth: 24 July 1858. Blairgowrie, Perthshire, Scotland
father: John Craig
mother: Mary Carmichael
William Craig: birth: 30 October 1862. Blairgowrie, Perthshire, Scotland
father: John Craig
mother: Mary Carmichael
Isabella Craig: birth: 22 October 1866, Blairgowrie, Perthshire, Scotland
father: John Craig
mother: Mary Carmichael
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again, THANK YOU!!!
I really appreciate the help!
Regards, Lorraine
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oh, wait.
James died in 1852 but there's a James who was born in 1858 ... 2 sons named James, right?
I am looking for the birth of the first James ...
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Thank you buckhyne. Nothing immediately jumps out as 'mine' but I need to research more thoroughly to be sure.
(Thomas Watson is my direct ancestor. He married in Aberdeen, later lived in Edinburgh, was an engineer but died in the Tibbermore Poorhouse in 1880)
Thanks again for your help,
Marlene
Hi there, I am new to this forum and have been brought here by this particular post.
I am also a direct relative of the thomas Watson you mention through his grandson George. I have just started to research my family in the last 12 months and would appreciate any help you could offer :)
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Hi there, I am new to this forum and have been brought here by this particular post.
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I am also a direct relative of the thomas Watson you mention through his grandson George. I have just started to research my family in the last 12 months and would appreciate any help you could offer :)
The best thing you can do is tell us everything that you already know about your Watsons. This will save anyone rushing off to duplicate what you have already done, and will give a clearer picture of what you still want to find out.
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Would there be any records for Murray at St Madoes?
William Murray died 1814 .
His father John Murray (unknown death date) and mother Ann Cochrane 1824.
Thanks
Suzy W
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Hi Suzy W
I have had a look through the MI Book for Eastern Perthshire there are no William Murray's in St Madoes there are no Cochrane's either.
Where did you get the details from as there are no deaths on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
I have looked in the cemeteries in the carse of Gowrie and nothing matches for any of the names you have listed.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Sounds about right for my family ;D
William Murray's death was the 17 June 1814, I have "Perthshire", however he was born in St Madoes, mother being a Cochran
he worked as a weaver between 1805-1809 Cross Ford Kinfauns Then Hallyhoo, so maybe he was not buried at St Madoes
I believe his wife Mary died 11th Oct 1867 at St Madoes, she was living with her unmarried son John right up untill the 1861 census at St Madoes.
And those Cochrane's or Cochran, there seems to be only one family from St Madoes, there is another William just listed from Perthshire, both the same age having children the same time period, and people are muddling them up. I think my William was married to a Rebecca Robertsone not the Janet Miller. So if any death's at St Madoes should be William's and Rebecca's family lines, however like yourself I couldn't find a thing.
Thank you for looking
Suzy W
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Hi Suzy W
Were does the 1861 census say she was born?
Does it say she was unmarried or widow?
What was Mary's maiden name, using the surname Murray listed below are all the Mary Murray deaths in Perthshire from 1860 to 1870.?
If I have the correct Mary she would have been born 1783 to 1785?
MURRAY HARRIET MARY JA 1 LOW F 1861 359 / 3 INCHTURE
MURRAY MARY 2 SULLIVAN F 1863 333 / 9 BLACKFORD
MURRAY MARY 86 GALLOWAY F 1870 379 / 16 MEIGLE
MURRAY MARY 41 PURIE F 1860 394 / A / 33 SCONE (PERTH)
MURRAY MARY 48 HIND F 1865 387 / 204 PERTH
MURRAY MARY 79 TAYLOR F 1866 386 / A / 24 MUTHILL
MURRAY MARY 1 KEAY F 1860 328 / 31 ALYTH
MURRAY MARY 5 MURRAY F 1865 386 / A / 25 MUTHILL
MURRAY MARY 75 BROWN F 1866 387 / 162 PERTH
1861 census from St Madoes
MURRAY ANN 1861 F 68 392/ 1/ 1 ST MADOES PERTH
MURRAY JOHN 1861 M 56 392/ 1/ 3 ST MADOES PERTH
MURRAY MARY 1861 F 77 392/ 1/ 3 ST MADOES PERTH
All the above taken from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi Suzy W
there is a tree on www.familysearch.org says it's a copy of this person's ancestry tree take care with this information as the only true information is the records on Scotlands people where you can view the original documents. 2:2:QRM7-3WN
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Mary Murray was born Jack 3 May 1783 at St Madoes died Oct 1867. Daughter of John Jack and Elisabeth Rollo
1851 and 61 she was living with her son John at Hawkstone, he was un-married.
I believe she died 1867 aged 84.
Records do seem to be quite thin with my family names dating this far back with the Murray, Cochran Rollo and Jacks.
Suzy W
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Hi Suzy
That tree I mentioned on www.familysearch.org have details of this family all records after 1855 are available to download at modest cost on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk also this family seems to have originated around Errol and Kinfauns Errol have sme of the oldest lparish records in Scotland again available to download also parish Church records are available to search and download there is on this site help available to use scotlandspeople
The person who uploaded this tree to familysearch.org has a tree on ancestry but beware of anything published on commercial sites unless they are supported by original documents and the only place to get them is scotlandspeope
Good hunting.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thanks, I can't quite make out who added the tree, most likely family search, I did correct the findings on family search back in 2019.
We had family members go to Scotland and find what records they could, however never came back with the burial details, pushed for time, so much to see and do.