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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Lensmeister on Thursday 17 August 17 14:58 BST (UK)

Title: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Lensmeister on Thursday 17 August 17 14:58 BST (UK)
Hi all,

Attached is a screen dump of some Thaller (and Taller) that I cannot read the christian name of.

The second one Taller I cannot read the month of burial.

Can anyone help please?

I have a few more but I'll post these separately later.
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 17 August 17 15:41 BST (UK)
Is it allegedly English, Latin or some other language?
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Lensmeister on Thursday 17 August 17 15:46 BST (UK)
Hi it is Austrian/German.
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Mike Morrell (NL) on Thursday 17 August 17 15:55 BST (UK)
Yes, it's German (or a derivative).

The month looks like August to me. The 'f' shape for 's' is similar to older English. The u with a circle above it is consistent with the u in Juni and Juli.


Mike

Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 17 August 17 15:58 BST (UK)
Could it be Ursular....spelling a ?

Annie
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 17 August 17 16:01 BST (UK)
As both names seem to be the same, it isn't just Austrian/German for "infant" is it?
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 17 August 17 16:03 BST (UK)
Month for (2nd) Taller looks to be Jun?

Annie



Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 17 August 17 16:10 BST (UK)
I think the middle name is Josaf & the last letter on the 2 others have the same letter as (what looks like) the 'a' in Josaf i.e. possibly Ursula ?

Annie

Edit.....No, the 's' in what I thought was Josaf is different  ::)
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Lensmeister on Thursday 17 August 17 16:32 BST (UK)
Yes, it's German (or a derivative).

The month looks like August to me. The 'f' shape for 's' is similar to older English. The u with a circle above it is consistent with the u in Juni and Juli.
Mike
Yep THat makes sense thanks.

Could it be Ursular....spelling a ?
Annie
Thanks Annie, I've been pouring over this for ages and fresh eyes seem to have helped. I think you are right.

As both names seem to be the same, it isn't just Austrian/German for "infant" is it?

See I was wondering that too ... Annie seems to think Ursula which matches too.


THanks to everyone. I'll post some more later.
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 17 August 17 16:35 BST (UK)
See I was wondering that too ... Annie seems to think Ursula which matches too.

But......the 'S' in Josaf is different i.e. it's still a big ?

Are they all in the same hand, I've not had a chance to check until now?

Annie
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 17 August 17 16:39 BST (UK)
Same hand to me, sods law would have it those are the only 2 letters which seem to contradict  ;D

Annie
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Lensmeister on Thursday 17 August 17 16:48 BST (UK)
The middle name isn't one I'm looking at tbh as it's not a Thaller/Thaler/Taller.

I think they are in the same hand as the Surnames do appears very close especially the letters in the surnames.

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 17 August 17 16:51 BST (UK)
The middle name isn't one I'm looking at tbh as it's not a Thaller/Thaler/Taller.

But for letter comparison you need to look at the middle one & there's a discrepancy with the 'S' as they both look different  :-\

Annie
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Lensmeister on Thursday 17 August 17 17:03 BST (UK)
Here is a wider sample of handwriting for the same era.
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Mike Morrell (NL) on Thursday 17 August 17 17:26 BST (UK)
If I'm right, this document is written using the German 'Kurrent' spelling. More on this can be found at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurrent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurrent) with another example at
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5f/3d/5d/5f3d5dfa53499751cb658a3f0c60bf45--handwriting-styles-old-handwriting.jpg (https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5f/3d/5d/5f3d5dfa53499751cb658a3f0c60bf45--handwriting-styles-old-handwriting.jpg)

For example, an 'e' was written as an 'n'. Thaller is now a German surname but also means 'someone who lives in the valley' (Tal=valley). It's quite possible that the first name is Ursula. I read it as 'Umsehr': 'visitor/wanderer'.

Thaller/Taller are now surnames. They could also be designations for (anonymous) 'visitors/hikers from the valley'

Mike
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Lensmeister on Thursday 17 August 17 17:31 BST (UK)
Thaler is my surname and these index entries are from the parish register in Poggersdorf in Austria.
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 17 August 17 18:35 BST (UK)
For example, an 'e' was written as an 'n'. Thaller is now a German surname but also means 'someone who lives in the valley' (Tal=valley). It's quite possible that the first name is Ursula. I read it as 'Umsehr': 'visitor/wanderer'.

Thaller/Taller are now surnames. They could also be designations for (anonymous) 'visitors/hikers from the valley'

I wouldn't argue with 'Umsehr' & a good find on possibles MM!

Annie
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: craggagh on Thursday 17 August 17 19:00 BST (UK)
Hello -

The names are Josef and Ursula - see www.deutsche-kurrentschrift.de

craggagh.
Title: Re: Two First Names Unreadable
Post by: Lensmeister on Thursday 17 August 17 19:30 BST (UK)
Thanks all :)